A difficult language or a stupid people or poor standards in education?

The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for English pupils to
learn to read in English fluently. Finnish children learn to read fluently
in Finnish in three months.

"Markku Grönroos" a écrit dans le message de
news
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for English pupils to
learn to read in English fluently. Finnish children learn to read fluently
in Finnish in three months.

scRunge12 babbles:

[...]

But we know all that...


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking


"Markku Grönroos" a écrit dans le message de
news
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for English pupils
to
learn to read in English fluently. Finnish children learn to read
fluently
in Finnish in three months.

"Gregory Morrow" a écrit dans le message de
m...



scRunge12 babbles:

[...]

But we know all that...


--
Best
Greg

" I find Greg Morrow lowbrow, witless, and obnoxious. For him to claim
that
we are some
kind of comedy team turns my stomach."
- "cybercat" to me on rec.food.cooking


"Markku Grönroos" a écrit dans le message de
news
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for English pupils
to
learn to read in English fluently. Finnish children learn to read
fluently
in Finnish in three months.

Markku Grönroos wrote:
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for English pupils
to learn to read in English fluently. Finnish children learn to read
fluently in Finnish in three months.
That's probably because written Finnish is phonetic, whereas written
English only remotely resembles the spoken language.

Martin wrote on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:05:55 +0200:

Markku Grönroos wrote:
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for
English pupils to learn to read in English fluently. Finnish
children learn to read fluently in Finnish in three months.
That's probably because written Finnish is phonetic, whereas
written English only remotely resembles the spoken language.

I learnt to read in about a year. I wasn't an infant prodigy
just another two class room village school kid.

I started school in a one-room school ( 5 to 11 yrs old) and was writing
after three months. We then left for a more standard system and I had to
learn again. However, I was reading when I was seven and I still
remember my 7th birthday when I could register at the public library. I
even remember the first book I took out, "Ferdinand the Bull". I'd have
to search for the author!


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

Oh how exciting !

"James Silverton" a écrit dans le message de
news:vDh5k.43059$Xu2.15503@trnddc04...
Martin wrote on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:05:55 +0200:

Markku Grönroos wrote:
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for
English pupils to learn to read in English fluently. Finnish
children learn to read fluently in Finnish in three months.
That's probably because written Finnish is phonetic, whereas
written English only remotely resembles the spoken language.

I learnt to read in about a year. I wasn't an infant prodigy
just another two class room village school kid.

I started school in a one-room school ( 5 to 11 yrs old) and was writing
after three months. We then left for a more standard system and I had to
learn again. However, I was reading when I was seven and I still remember
my 7th birthday when I could register at the public library. I even
remember the first book I took out, "Ferdinand the Bull". I'd have to
search for the author!


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:02:18 +0200, Martin wrote:

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 23:31:39 GMT, "James Silverton"
wrote:

Martin wrote on Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:05:55 +0200:

Markku Grönroos wrote:
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for
English pupils to learn to read in English fluently. Finnish
children learn to read fluently in Finnish in three months.
That's probably because written Finnish is phonetic, whereas
written English only remotely resembles the spoken language.

I learnt to read in about a year. I wasn't an infant prodigy
just another two class room village school kid.

I started school in a one-room school ( 5 to 11 yrs old)

My village school was for 5 to 14 yrs old. In those days most kids left school
at 14.

and was writing
after three months. We then left for a more standard system and I had to
learn again. However, I was reading when I was seven and I still
remember my 7th birthday when I could register at the public library.

Me too!

I
even remember the first book I took out, "Ferdinand the Bull". I'd have
to search for the author!

Wonk! http://www.theweeweb.co.uk/ladybird/ladybird_wonk.php

The reading part was fairly easy, it was the calculus and physics, took me
until six years old to master them.
--


---
6/16/2008 8:13:51 AM
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Jun 15, 10:17 am, Markku Grönroos wrote:
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for English pupils to
learn to read in English fluently. Finnish children learn to read fluently
in Finnish in three months.

Apart from education standards and stupid (or not) people, there are
some
other factors.
- School starts at age 5 in the UK and I think at age 7 in Finland
(according to Wikipedia), and perhaps 7 year olds are more able to
pick it up quickly.
- English spelling is not phonetic and not easy
- I think that English has a much larger vocabulary than any other
European language (I read once than it was bigger than the next 3 Euro
languages combined)
- The UK now has huge numbers of immigrants whose kids arive at school
not speaking English (not that all the natives are much good at it
either!). Perhaps that is less of an issue in Finland?

Also what does "fluently" mean? Are the same standards applied in both
countries?
I could read and write basic English before I went to school in
England aged 5, but not fluently by adult standards. I have no idea
when I became "fluent".

wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 10:17 am, Markku Grönroos wrote:
The Observer reveals that it takes about three years for English pupils to
learn to read in English fluently. Finnish children learn to read fluently
in Finnish in three months.

Apart from education standards and stupid (or not) people, there are
some
other factors.
- School starts at age 5 in the UK and I think at age 7 in Finland
(according to Wikipedia), and perhaps 7 year olds are more able to
pick it up quickly.
- English spelling is not phonetic and not easy
- I think that English has a much larger vocabulary than any other
European language (I read once than it was bigger than the next 3 Euro
languages combined)
- The UK now has huge numbers of immigrants whose kids arive at school
not speaking English (not that all the natives are much good at it
either!). Perhaps that is less of an issue in Finland?

Also what does "fluently" mean? Are the same standards applied in both
countries?
I could read and write basic English before I went to school in
England aged 5, but not fluently by adult standards. I have no idea
when I became "fluent".

--------------------------------------------------------------
I think you hit the nail on the head with your second point.

My guess is that by "fluent" they mean "when read out loud is pronounced
correctly".

This means that in a fixed phonetic language, you can read words that you
have no idea of the meaning of, something which is often not possible to do
in English.

This wouldn't be my definition of "fluent", it would be "understands the
meaning of ever word that they read", which I doubt even the cleverest of
Finnish 7 year olds could do.

tim