abolishing tipping?

Miguel Cruz wrote:

David Horne wrote:

It might be different now, but when I was in Delhi, _locals_ told me not
to eat food off the street- it made them ill as well, so they said. As a
result, I didn't.

You have to go where the locals go.

I've only been to India once, and that was six weeks in Delhi, and I
lived with Indians (not always with the same people) all the time.
Didn't see a hotel room once. I went around with them most of the time,
apart from my own trips to the music school etc. I'm sure there might
have been some "real" locals lurking around somewhere- but I was pretty
sure I was living with them!

We went to lots of local restaurants, but the real experience was the
home-cooked food, which is IMO better than _either_ food bought on the
street or in restaurants. The street food I saw was mostly of the
rough-and-ready variety- simply cooked dhal and rice, for example.
That's where locals went- and I was living in a residential non-touristy
neighbourhood. What were the treats I missed? Genuine question. I had
such a wide variety of food there, I'd be surprised if I missed
anything!

I don't argue with you that some places in the world have incredible
delights to be found in their street food. But, it isn't a blanket rule,
and I'd argue that Delhi isn't one of those places. But, I'm quite
prepared to be informed on this- I haven't been there since the 80s, and
lots of other things have changed there since then. (They have Coke
now!)

That said, I had some amusing conversation with locals in India who insisted
that it was not possible to travel in India for any less money than one
could in the USA or Europe. "One must stay in hotels of a certain standard
in order to be safe," I was told, "and this standard will be costing you
$150 per night in Delhi and in London." These are the same people who would
insist that street food was "out of the question" when we were going around
town.

So it's definitely possible for locals to be out of touch!

Indeed, if you were talking to people with views like that. Can't say
that's the kind of people I was staying with though.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

David Horne wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
You have to go where the locals go.

We went to lots of local restaurants, but the real experience was the
home-cooked food, which is IMO better than _either_ food bought on the
street or in restaurants.

I'll wholeheartedly agree with you there. But it's not always an option for
tourists!

The street food I saw was mostly of the rough-and-ready variety- simply
cooked dhal and rice, for example. That's where locals went- and I was
living in a residential non-touristy neighbourhood. What were the treats I
missed? Genuine question. I had such a wide variety of food there, I'd be
surprised if I missed anything!

India isn't such a paradise for street food, like places further west
(Turkey and the middle east) and even moreso, further east (especially
southeast Asia) can be. The reason I eat on the street in India when not
staying with people is first and foremost for safety rather than cuisine.
But you can get interesting snacks, and for lunches on the go, etc., the
food is more authentic and interesting than in tourist restaurants. If you
include permanent places that are downmarket and have the kitchen out front
where everyone can see it, then you can find some very good stuff.

So it's definitely possible for locals to be out of touch!

Indeed, if you were talking to people with views like that. Can't say
that's the kind of people I was staying with though.

I've had the good fortune to have a pretty diverse exposure to locals in
India - from one of the wealthiest families in the country, where we had a
private 8-room guesthouse on the grounds complete with satellite TV and
chauffeur to drive us around to see the sights - to huts in small villages
where there was only enough room for the oldest people to sleep indoors and
the other three generations slept out on hammocks until the chickens pecking
underneath woke us up.

I experienced an astonishing diversity of social, economic, and intellectual
perspective - far, far greater than found in the US, I think. Here I think
anyone can, if they really want to, scrape together some money and go eat a
fancy dinner in New York or Los Angeles alongside the rich elite. In India
the opposite ends of the scale are so far apart there's no common ground at
all. So who you talk to makes a big difference.

miguel
--
See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

"Brian K" wrote in message
hlink.net...
On 10/20/2003 7:48 PM tina lekas miller while directing tourists to the
Zazu Pits, was inclined to say:

hello out there,
I am of the opinion that tipping practices in the US, at least my part
of the US have gone overboard. what do you think of making employers
jack up their employees pay (and the cost of their services) by
whatever percentage say 15% and forbid tipping.

Nobody tips the lawyer, the graphic designer, the teacher, the
librarian, the grocery store check out clerk, the admin assistant, the
traffic cop, the Walgreens checkout clerk or a million other jobs. Why
this selective situation where we subsidize the paycheck of certain
job categories.

Yes prices will rise. But we are paying it anyway.

please let me know what you think.

thanks
tina


Some people "tip" the traffic cop. :-)

--
________
To email me, Edit "xt" from my email address.
Brian M. Kochera
"Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"
View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

i wiah it would be all inclusive. Then you'd know the total cost

Icono Clast on 28 Oct 2003 suggested:

Maggie White wrote:
Food poisoning can occur as long as 36 hours after ingesti[o]n

I've never heard that figure. The one I've heard is six hours and
that's the time I use to determine the source of the problem.

Actually, it really depends on the organism that infects you, or
the toxins they have deposited in the food. Here are some samples of
the most common organisms, and their onset of symptoms after ingestion:

BACTERIAL:
Salmonella: 6 to 48 hours;
Staphylococcus Aureus: 1 to 8 hours;
Clostridium Botulinum: 4 to 72 hours;
Campylobacter Jejuni: 2 to 10 days;
Listeria Monocytogenes: 2 to 30 days;
Shigella Bacteria: 1 to 7 days;
Escherichia Coli: 3 to 4 days;
VIRAL:
Hepatitis A: 14 to 50 days;
Norwalk-Like Viruses: 24-48 hours;


As you can see, there is a wide range of symptom onset times. I
don't post this to scare anyone, just to make you aware. I personally
do subscribe to the premise that when in an unfamiliar area, you are far
better off eating from a street vendor that a large number of the locals
frequent, than eating in a fancy restaurant that has only a few, or no
locals eating there. The locals would not return to any vendor if it
regularly made them sick.

--Douglas

Marie Lewis wrote:

Is it true that they have 43 different ways of saying "I surrender"?



What a pity there are such people as you in the USA.

I'e always enjoyed British humour. What a pity there are such
humourless people as you in the UK. And what a pity you feel the need
to slam Americans at every opportunity, especially as the poster you
were feebly trying to insult is in Israel.

In article , Lynn Guinni
writes
Marie Lewis wrote:

Is it true that they have 43 different ways of saying "I surrender"?



What a pity there are such people as you in the USA.

I'e always enjoyed British humour. What a pity there are such
humourless people as you in the UK. And what a pity you feel the need
to slam Americans at every opportunity, especially as the poster you
were feebly trying to insult is in Israel.


It is better to ignore such as you, so, goodbye.
--
Marie Lewis

Lynn Guinni wrote in message ...
Me wrote:

Tipping for restaurant service will sooner fall by
the wayside in the United States than we'll go to the Metric system.

Not the best example. Metric can be imposed by the gov't,

Not in these parts madam.

as it has in Canada, UK and Australia.

Which would get us back to the whole "where are people freest"
discussion.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:04:45 +0000, Marie Lewis
wrote:

In article , Lynn Guinni
writes
Marie Lewis wrote:

Is it true that they have 43 different ways of saying "I surrender"?



What a pity there are such people as you in the USA.

I'e always enjoyed British humour. What a pity there are such
humourless people as you in the UK. And what a pity you feel the need
to slam Americans at every opportunity, especially as the poster you
were feebly trying to insult is in Israel.


It is better to ignore such as you,

So why didn't you?

so, goodbye.

Must be "last wordism".

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In article , Hatunen
writes
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:04:45 +0000, Marie Lewis
wrote:

In article , Lynn Guinni
writes
Marie Lewis wrote:

Is it true that they have 43 different ways of saying "I surrender"?



What a pity there are such people as you in the USA.

I'e always enjoyed British humour. What a pity there are such
humourless people as you in the UK. And what a pity you feel the need
to slam Americans at every opportunity, especially as the poster you
were feebly trying to insult is in Israel.


It is better to ignore such as you,

So why didn't you?

so, goodbye.

Must be "last wordism".


You should know!
--
Marie Lewis

We had an election today. Let's see what happens:

San Francisco Prop L - Minimum Wage of $8.50/hour
Nov-05-2003 01:39 AM Pacific Standard Time
100% Precincts Reporting
Percent
YES 60%
NO 40%

Turnout: 39%
My neighborhood: 36%


(Icono Clast) wrote:
Hatunen wrote:
(tina lekas miller) wrote:
what do you think of making employers jack up their employees pay (and the
cost of their services) by whatever percentage say 15% and forbid tipping.

They will quickly lose business because their menu prices will be
significantly higher. It also removes my ability to let the
waiter know he's done a poor job by leaving a 5-cent tip.

In another thread, I somewhat answered the question posed. I've had
almost two hours to think about it and, based on what I said in the
other thread, have concluded that the increase in prices wouldn't be
significant. Here's the $15 meal to which I refer'd ($13.90+$1.10 tax
at 8%):

Soup: $2.00 an increase from $1.75
Salad: $2.00 an increase from $1.75
Entrée: $7.00 an increase from $6.75
Dessert: $1.75 an increase from $1.50
Coffee: $1.15 an increase from $0.95

New amount: $13.90; old amount: $12.70, a net increase of $1.28. Big
deal!

That's about a nine percent increase for a meal but, if you read the
other post, it would allow for a wage increase from $2 to $8. Who
among us would protest? Who among us couldn't afford it? Who among us
would even notice?

In San Francisco, you can get a rather nice meal for $15. This evening
in North Beach, I paid only $12 including a tip greater than 20% for a
meal that was delicious, nutritious, and more than filling.
__________________________________________________ __________
A San Franciscan in (where else?) San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net