Staying in Soweto

Does anyone have any advice or recommendations on staying in Soweto?
My husband, nine year old son and I are travelling to South Africa in
July and would like to spend a night there.
Thankyou in anticipation

"Caroline" wrote in message
m...
Does anyone have any advice or recommendations on staying in Soweto?
My husband, nine year old son and I are travelling to South Africa in
July and would like to spend a night there.
Thankyou in anticipation
Caroline,
I regularly work in Soweto and there is minimal problems for a
white male during daylight hours, IMHO it won't be worth the
risk, of a woman a child over night.There are plenty of day tours
which are safe and show you all the sights, go on one of those.
There is not enough of interest to keep your attention for more
than a day.
If you feel you must experience Soweto at night, at least make
alternate arrangements for your 9 y.o. son, it is not fair to
expose him to danger no matter how remote the chances of
a problem arising may be.
Richard

Richard,

I am shocked at your response to Caroline's enquiry. Overnight stays
in Soweto are becoming a very popular tourist attraction, organised by
professional companies, and are extremely informative, intersting and
SAFE.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that Caroline and family go blindly
swanning about Soweto at night (or daytime for that matter), and I'm
sure that was never her intention.

I think that the idea of staying overnight is an excellent opportunity
for a 9 year old to learn about other cultures and societies.

http://www.southafrica.info/plan_tri...ide-soweto.htm

I found the above link in less than a minute on Google, and
personally, I feel that you should have done a bit of research before
you posted your reply to Caroline.

How you can say that there is not enough to hold the attention for
more than a day is beyond me. Do you have any idea about other
people's interests? There are several "usual" sights in Soweto as well
as popular nightspots etc. There certainly could be more than just a
few hours of things to do and see.

Caroline:
Please research your stay in Soweto, and use a reputable agency that
has done this sort of trip before. I'm sure you'll have a very
interesting experience staying overnight, and you will come away with
a new appreciation of the vast differences between the diverse
cultures of our amazing country.

BTW, July in Johannesburg/Soweto will be cold, and we don't use
central heating. Daytime temps are around +10C to +17C, with nighttime
temps down to about between +3C and -5C. You will need pullovers and
a good jacket.


On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:34:09 +0200, "sportsfan"
wrote:


"Caroline" wrote in message
om...
Does anyone have any advice or recommendations on staying in Soweto?
My husband, nine year old son and I are travelling to South Africa in
July and would like to spend a night there.
Thankyou in anticipation
Caroline,
I regularly work in Soweto and there is minimal problems for a
white male during daylight hours, IMHO it won't be worth the
risk, of a woman a child over night.There are plenty of day tours
which are safe and show you all the sights, go on one of those.
There is not enough of interest to keep your attention for more
than a day.
If you feel you must experience Soweto at night, at least make
alternate arrangements for your 9 y.o. son, it is not fair to
expose him to danger no matter how remote the chances of
a problem arising may be.
Richard

"Marc Lurie" wrote in message
...
Richard,

I am shocked at your response to Caroline's enquiry. Overnight stays
in Soweto are becoming a very popular tourist attraction, organised by
professional companies, and are extremely informative, interesting and
SAFE.
Last year two armed hijacks and a muggings and that was only one
of my contractors in Soweto during the day with an armed guard.
you call that safe?.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that Caroline and family go blindly
swanning about Soweto at night (or daytime for that matter), and I'm
sure that was never her intention.

I think that the idea of staying overnight is an excellent opportunity
for a 9 year old to learn about other cultures and societies.


http://www.southafrica.info/plan_tri...ide-soweto.htm

I found the above link in less than a minute on Google, and
personally, I feel that you should have done a bit of research before
you posted your reply to Caroline.

I don't need to research a place I have been going to Soweto
on a weekly basis for the last 20 years.I don't care about what
the research tells you, I have my own experience in Soweto
and most other townships around Jo'burg. I don't try and sell
it to the tourists, I won't put anyone in any type of danger.
You are right that I often see tour groups and the daily ones
are perfectly safe. After dark and at weekends things change,
when Soweto parties be careful. I was warned twice last year
by police because there was a funeral in the area and people
were getting worked up.
I was also *kidnapped* to attend a wedding and it was all I
could do to get out sober everytime I got up to leave they
shoved another beer into my hand. I had never met anyone
who was there, previously. They just thought it would be nice
to *invite* me. You are definitely right about differences in
culture. Drive through on a Friday evening and see the cattle
tied to the fences ready to be slaughtered for a wedding the
following day. Drive through on a Saturday morning when
they are butchering the animals, there sure is a lot to see.


How you can say that there is not enough to hold the attention for
more than a day is beyond me. Do you have any idea about other
people's interests? There are several "usual" sights in Soweto as well
as popular nightspots etc. There certainly could be more than just a
few hours of things to do and see.

Night spots with a 9 year old child ? obviously your standards and
mine are a little different. What sights are there in Soweto that would
take more than a day to see ? cite please.

Caroline:
Please research your stay in Soweto, and use a reputable agency that
has done this sort of trip before. I'm sure you'll have a very
interesting experience staying overnight, and you will come away with
a new appreciation of the vast differences between the diverse
cultures of our amazing country.

BTW, July in Johannesburg/Soweto will be cold, and we don't use
central heating. Daytime temps are around +10C to +17C, with nighttimes
temps down to about between +3C and -5C. You will need pullovers and
a good jacket.

Mark
I work in most of the townships around Johannesburg, last year two
of my contractors in Soweto were held up and all there valuables
and truck were stolen.
On another occasion last year another of my workers was
held up at gun point in Soweto. In Katelehong there was
a gun battle between guards and locals, two trucks stolen.
An Indian site manage was kept hostage for 8 hours
until the casual labourers were paid. Where were the police
when all this was happening ?. I don't believe it is safe for
female or child tourists after dark. I regularly stay after dark,
but I know the place and the risks involved. Tourists are
not so experienced therefore I wouldn't recommend children
or females in there after dark. It is dangerous whether you
believe it or not it is up to you, I definitely would not take
a white female in there after dark. How much experience do
you actually have in Soweto Mark ?, it is a big place and easy
to get lost. Caroline the decision is yours, you must do as you
see fit, and I hope you enjoy your visit no mater where you
decide to go.
Richard

Richard and Mark
Thankyou for your interest in my enquiry and your helpful thoughts.
Having read guide books, the Jo'burg official website and seen the
number of guest houses in Soweto I was under the impression that it was
(relatively) safe to stay within the Vilikazi Street area and that
tourists were indeed being encouraged to visit and stay in the area. We
didn't really want to gawp from a moving bus but be there and spend our
money there rather than with a tour company. I certainly have no desire
to dive into anywhere dangerous or to put my son in danger, but as
Soweto is such an important piece of modern history we felt we couldn't
visit your country without showing him. We certainly didn't intend to
go out after dark with him. I think in the light of your replies we may
indeed finish up on a tour bus but hopefully one that encourages people
to 'Get off the bus'
Cows being slaughtered isn't a pretty sight, but if you visit
different cultures...... and I speak as a vegan!
Wherever we go, we're really looking forward to visiting your country.

Oh, and thankyou for the links!

Richard and Marc
Thankyou for your interest in my enquiry and your helpful th=ADoughts.
Having read guide books, the Jo'burg official website and se=ADen the
number of guest houses in Soweto I was under the impression =ADthat it
was
(relatively) safe to stay within the Vilikazi Street area an=ADd that
tourists were indeed being encouraged to visit and stay in t=ADhe area.
We
didn't really want to gawp from a moving bus but be there an=ADd spend
our
money there rather than with a tour company. I certainly hav=ADe no
desire
to dive into anywhere dangerous or to put my son in danger, =ADbut as
Soweto is such an important piece of modern history we felt =ADwe
couldn't
visit your country without showing him. We certainly didn't =ADintend to

go out after dark with him. I think in the light of your rep=ADlies we
may
indeed finish up on a tour bus but hopefully one that encour=ADages
people
to 'Get off the bus'
Cows being slaughtered isn't a pretty sight, but if you vis=ADit
different cultures...... and I speak as a vegan!
Wherever we go, we're really looking forward to visiting you=ADr
country.
And thanks for the link Marc - had already read about these two ladies
and was thinking they may be a possibility

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:36:32 +0200, "sportsfan"
wrote:


"Marc Lurie" wrote in message
.. .
Richard,

I am shocked at your response to Caroline's enquiry. Overnight stays
in Soweto are becoming a very popular tourist attraction, organised by
professional companies, and are extremely informative, interesting and
SAFE.
Last year two armed hijacks and a muggings and that was only one
of my contractors in Soweto during the day with an armed guard.
you call that safe?.
Was this in Vilikazi Street, or in any of the recognised tourist
areas?

I'm not for one minute suggesting that Caroline and family go blindly
swanning about Soweto at night (or daytime for that matter), and I'm
sure that was never her intention.

I think that the idea of staying overnight is an excellent opportunity
for a 9 year old to learn about other cultures and societies.


http://www.southafrica.info/plan_tri...ide-soweto.htm

I found the above link in less than a minute on Google, and
personally, I feel that you should have done a bit of research before
you posted your reply to Caroline.

I don't need to research a place I have been going to Soweto
on a weekly basis for the last 20 years.I don't care about what
the research tells you, I have my own experience in Soweto
and most other townships around Jo'burg. I don't try and sell
it to the tourists, I won't put anyone in any type of danger.
You are right that I often see tour groups and the daily ones
are perfectly safe. After dark and at weekends things change,
when Soweto parties be careful. I was warned twice last year
by police because there was a funeral in the area and people
were getting worked up.
Was this in Vilikazi Street, or in any of the recognised tourist
areas?

I was also *kidnapped* to attend a wedding and it was all I
could do to get out sober everytime I got up to leave they
shoved another beer into my hand. I had never met anyone
who was there, previously. They just thought it would be nice
to *invite* me. You are definitely right about differences in
culture. Drive through on a Friday evening and see the cattle
tied to the fences ready to be slaughtered for a wedding the
following day. Drive through on a Saturday morning when
they are butchering the animals, there sure is a lot to see.
Is this in Vilikazi Street, or in any of the recognised tourist areas?



How you can say that there is not enough to hold the attention for
more than a day is beyond me. Do you have any idea about other
people's interests? There are several "usual" sights in Soweto as well
as popular nightspots etc. There certainly could be more than just a
few hours of things to do and see.

Night spots with a 9 year old child ? obviously your standards and
mine are a little different. What sights are there in Soweto that would
take more than a day to see ? cite please.
What's wrong with dinner at Wandies with the family.



Caroline:
Please research your stay in Soweto, and use a reputable agency that
has done this sort of trip before. I'm sure you'll have a very
interesting experience staying overnight, and you will come away with
a new appreciation of the vast differences between the diverse
cultures of our amazing country.

BTW, July in Johannesburg/Soweto will be cold, and we don't use
central heating. Daytime temps are around +10C to +17C, with nighttimes
temps down to about between +3C and -5C. You will need pullovers and
a good jacket.

Mark
I work in most of the townships around Johannesburg, last year two
of my contractors in Soweto were held up and all there valuables
and truck were stolen.
On another occasion last year another of my workers was
held up at gun point in Soweto. In Katelehong there was
a gun battle between guards and locals, two trucks stolen.
An Indian site manage was kept hostage for 8 hours
until the casual labourers were paid. Where were the police
when all this was happening ?. I don't believe it is safe for
female or child tourists after dark. I regularly stay after dark,
but I know the place and the risks involved. Tourists are
not so experienced therefore I wouldn't recommend children
or females in there after dark. It is dangerous whether you
believe it or not it is up to you, I definitely would not take
a white female in there after dark. How much experience do
you actually have in Soweto Mark ?, it is a big place and easy
You missed what I said about never, for one second, suggesting that
Caroline go into Soweto without a reputable and trusted tour
organiser.

I don't want to get into a ****ing contest with you about who knows
more about Soweto. I'm sure you've seen your fair share of things, and
so have I. As for the slaughtering of animals, there are several
billion people around the world who slaughter animals on a regular
basis. It's part of African life, just as it's part of life in South
America, or Asia, or the Pacific. It's part of the culture of these
areas, and as such, many tourists are interested in this aspect, even
if they are vegans. You are being very prescriptive by blindly
assuming that Caroline wouldn't be interested. She may or may not be,
but that's HER choice, and she has the wherwithal to research the
subject. That's why she posted the initial query.


to get lost. Caroline the decision is yours, you must do as you
see fit, and I hope you enjoy your visit no mater where you
decide to go.
Richard


Marc

On 1 Feb 2005 12:16:48 -0800, wrote:

Richard and Marc
Thankyou for your interest in my enquiry and your helpful th*oughts.
Having read guide books, the Jo'burg official website and se*en the
number of guest houses in Soweto I was under the impression *that it
was
(relatively) safe to stay within the Vilikazi Street area an*d that
tourists were indeed being encouraged to visit and stay in t*he area.
That's quite correct Caroline. You should have no problems in that
area if you are with a reputable tour company. Thousands of tourists
have gone there with VERY few problems over the years.

We
didn't really want to gawp from a moving bus but be there an*d spend
our
money there rather than with a tour company. I certainly hav*e no
desire
to dive into anywhere dangerous or to put my son in danger, *but as
Soweto is such an important piece of modern history we felt *we
couldn't
visit your country without showing him. We certainly didn't *intend to
As I said in my previous post, you should definitely NOT try to go in
by yourself. There is a high likelihood of getting into trouble if you
self-drive.

go out after dark with him. I think in the light of your rep*lies we
may
indeed finish up on a tour bus but hopefully one that encour*ages
people
to 'Get off the bus'
If you can find a tour company that will take you by bus to the
various places of interest, and also put you up in one of the
guesthouses, then take you back to Johannesburg the next day, you will
have a fantastic experience.

Cows being slaughtered isn't a pretty sight, but if you vis*it
different cultures...... and I speak as a vegan!
You don't HAVE to watch :-)

Wherever we go, we're really looking forward to visiting you*r
country.
And thanks for the link Marc - had already read about these two ladies
and was thinking they may be a possibility
It certainly is a possibility.

If I can help you with anything, please drop me a mail. I'm not
connected with the tourism or hospitality industry at all. I simply
enjoy seeing visitors experiencing positive things in my country.

Marc

Caroline,

Touring Soweto doesn't necessarily mean staring out of the
windows of a luxury coach without ever interacting with
the locals.

For example, there's this guy called Max that runs Max's
Maximum Tours. Himself a resident of Soweto, he take small
groups around the township in his car. Both to the more
obvious tourist spots (Nelson Mandela house, Hector Pieterson
monument, etc), as well as to the labyrinth-like streets lined
with shacks where the people he knows lives, where you get a
rare opportunity to meet locals and hear their stories. Usually
his tour ends at a shebeen - the traditional drinking place -
for a glass or two of the home-brewed beer. He can also arrange
with an over-night stay with a local family, if that is what
you want.

My girlfriend and I went with another couple on a half-day trip
with Max in July 2000. We all felt that it was a most informative
and personal experience. I think a lot of South Africans could
need this type of tour themselves, to help overcome the kind of
stereotypes that obviously still persists about Soweto. Back
then he relied on word of mouth and ads at Jo'burg hostels, now
his business has expanded and he's on the net:
http://www.backpackafrica.com/accomm.../maxmaxim.html

OK, hope this is of some help.
Marten, Stockholm


wrote:
Richard and Mark
Thankyou for your interest in my enquiry and your helpful thoughts.
Having read guide books, the Jo'burg official website and seen the
number of guest houses in Soweto I was under the impression that it was
(relatively) safe to stay within the Vilikazi Street area and that
tourists were indeed being encouraged to visit and stay in the area. We
didn't really want to gawp from a moving bus but be there and spend our
money there rather than with a tour company. I certainly have no desire
to dive into anywhere dangerous or to put my son in danger, but as
Soweto is such an important piece of modern history we felt we couldn't
visit your country without showing him. We certainly didn't intend to
go out after dark with him. I think in the light of your replies we may
indeed finish up on a tour bus but hopefully one that encourages people
to 'Get off the bus'
Cows being slaughtered isn't a pretty sight, but if you visit
different cultures...... and I speak as a vegan!
Wherever we go, we're really looking forward to visiting your country.