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Typical Muslim fascism



 
 
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  #22  
Old April 29th, 2004, 02:35 PM
Rowani
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Default Typical Muslim fascism


"intruder" wrote in message
...

You mean the Jay who cleans toilets in KL is more wortful than other

Malaysians. Nah

What's wrong with a job as a toilet cleaner ?

Rowani


  #23  
Old April 29th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Rowani
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Default Typical Muslim


"Dieter Aaaa" Dieter wrote in message
...

as long as he is not a muslim

A typical example of a promoter of religious conflict

Rowani



  #24  
Old April 29th, 2004, 05:59 PM
Dieter Aaaa
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Default Typical Muslim fascism


"Rowani" schreef in bericht
news

"intruder" wrote in message
...

You mean the Jay who cleans toilets in KL is more wortful than other

Malaysians. Nah

What's wrong with a job as a toilet cleaner ?

Rowani

nothing, as long as he isn't a muslim



  #25  
Old May 1st, 2004, 03:21 AM
Brian Orion
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Default Typical Muslim fascism

It never amazes me how a troll can come into a group,make an outlandish
statement and sit back and probably delight in the big furor he
caused.And apparently there is no shortage of dim-wits who fall for this
childish game.

  #26  
Old May 1st, 2004, 10:22 AM
Dieter Aaaa
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Default Typical Muslim fascism


"Brian Orion" schreef in bericht
...
It never amazes me how a troll can come into a group,make an outlandish
statement and sit back and probably delight in the big furor he
caused.And apparently there is no shortage of dim-wits who fall for this
childish game.



you are absolutely right,
but you forgot to mention that the real cause is in the evil islam




  #27  
Old May 1st, 2004, 11:55 AM
ajali
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Default Typical Muslim fascism

mark wrote in message ...
Pan wrote in
:

The one good characteristic of Muslims is that they frequently
commit suicide.

Commiting suicide is against Islam. Whoever commit suicide will go to
hell. Those who commit sucide are not racticing the true teaching of
Islam.


Right, but the claim by the advocates of suicide terrorism is always
that it is martyrdom (shahid), not suicide.



martyrdom = your enemies kill you
suicide = you kill yourself deliberately

The correct English word is definitely suicide.


What other interpretations does shahid have?


For your information, there are 3 level of knowledge where the muslims
follow.
First is the Qur'an (the holybook).Second is the hadith ( the words
and the behavior of the Prophet). Third, Ijmak Ulama (the concensus of
the Ulama or Scholars)

The qur'an is the highest source of knowledge. However, there are
cases where the Qur'an did not explain clearly what the muslims should
do. So, they rely on the hadiths. The hadiths compliment the Qur'an.
But as human life get more complicated as the time pass by, there are
many cases where the muslims could not get a clear guide from the
Qur'an and hadiths.

For example, many many years ago, the scientists has find a way to
help couples to have a baby through "test tube" method. You cannot
find a clear explanation about the issue in the Qur'an or hadiths. So,
the muslims struggle to figure out the issue. Is it ok for muslims to
have a baby through this new method? Some people say yes, and some
people say no.....In the event like this, this is where the ulama play
their role. They will debate it and find a common decision. Finally
they came out, its ok as long as the eggs and the sperm used came from
a married couple.

Regarding "suicide" and "syahid". If you study the qur'an...killing
yourself is totally a sin and against Islam. However, the "suicide"
that we witnessed today have different flavor into it. They killed
themselves while taking the enemy along. Because of that nature, the
ulama still have difficulty to decide whether it is a plain "suicide"
which is a sin and "shahid" because of the sacrife is based on
destroying the enemy......So it still up in the air. Some say its
"syahid", some says it not. If you ask the Palestinians, they will
answer it as shahid. They say thats the only way the can defend
themselves from the Israel. But for people who live far away like us,
our ulama might see it differently. So I think, as far as I know there
is still no concensus about it.
  #28  
Old May 1st, 2004, 12:41 PM
Observer
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Default Typical Muslim fascism


"ajali" wrote in message
om...
For your information, there are 3 level of knowledge where the muslims
follow.
First is the Qur'an (the holybook).Second is the hadith ( the words
and the behavior of the Prophet). Third, Ijmak Ulama (the concensus of
the Ulama or Scholars)

The qur'an is the highest source of knowledge. However, there are
cases where the Qur'an did not explain clearly what the muslims should
do. So, they rely on the hadiths.


So how do you know the Hadiths actually
are not false, MORON?


The hadiths compliment the Qur'an.


How so?
You just said if its not in the Quran...
the Hadith was relied on...
So thats in ADDITION to the Quran...
not complimentary...you idiot.


But as human life get more complicated as the time pass by, there are
many cases where the muslims could not get a clear guide from the
Qur'an and hadiths.


So they have ulamaks to make up stories
and then attribute that to God?
LIARs.


For example, many many years ago, the scientists has find a way to
help couples to have a baby through "test tube" method. You cannot
find a clear explanation about the issue in the Qur'an or hadiths. So,
the muslims struggle to figure out the issue. Is it ok for muslims to
have a baby through this new method? Some people say yes, and some
people say no.....In the event like this, this is where the ulama play
their role. They will debate it and find a common decision. Finally
they came out, its ok as long as the eggs and the sperm used came from
a married couple.


And MORONs like you then claim that their
decision is "Islamic" and that its unIslamic
to go against you ulamak?
Tell us how in the above process can anyone
be sure that God actually agree to all thats
been determined by your ulamak?

And if you cannot, how do you then claim
later or that the ulamaks decision is from
God or part of God's edict to humans?
LYING ingrates.


Regarding "suicide" and "syahid". If you study the qur'an...killing
yourself is totally a sin and against Islam. However, the "suicide"
that we witnessed today have different flavor into it. They killed
themselves while taking the enemy along. Because of that nature, the
ulama still have difficulty to decide whether it is a plain "suicide"
which is a sin and "shahid" because of the sacrife is based on
destroying the enemy......So it still up in the air.


Tell us... great LIAR....
Where can we find hadiths (you did
say that you rely on hadiths for guidance)
that mentiond that the prophet asked his
people to commit suicide as you suggest
against the pagan Arabs back then who
outnumber them.
LIAR.


Some say its
"syahid", some says it not. If you ask the Palestinians, they will
answer it as shahid. They say thats the only way the can defend
themselves from the Israel. But for people who live far away like us,
our ulama might see it differently. So I think, as far as I know there
is still no concensus about it.


What make you think that "consensus" equates
to God's will?
MORON.



  #29  
Old May 2nd, 2004, 02:44 AM
ajali
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Typical Muslim fascism

"Observer" wrote in message ...
"ajali" wrote in message
om...
For your information, there are 3 level of knowledge where the muslims
follow.
First is the Qur'an (the holybook).Second is the hadith ( the words
and the behavior of the Prophet). Third, Ijmak Ulama (the concensus of
the Ulama or Scholars)

The qur'an is the highest source of knowledge. However, there are
cases where the Qur'an did not explain clearly what the muslims should
do. So, they rely on the hadiths.


So how do you know the Hadiths actually
are not false?


Do you ever hear words like methodology, validity, reliability,
trustworthiness?
The scholars only accepted hadiths reported by several researchers
like Bukhari &muslim, At Tarmidzi but reject others. But of course
nobody knows 100 % sure. Even in a scientificc study, the researchers
use "margin of error".

The hadiths compliment the Qur'an.


How so?
You just said if its not in the Quran...
the Hadith was relied on...
So thats in ADDITION to the Quran...
not complimentary.


I said when thr Qur'an did not explained clearly....so the hadiths
compliment the Qur'an....not addition.

But as human life get more complicated as the time pass by, there are
many cases where the muslims could not get a clear guide from the
Qur'an and hadiths.


So they have ulamaks to make up stories
and then attribute that to God?



Their judgement were based on their scholarships. The ulamaks in many
ways can be considered as religios scientists. They are the people who
have done all the study.....just like we rely on experts and
scientists advices or judgements because of their work.

For example, many many years ago, the scientists has find a way to
help couples to have a baby through "test tube" method. You cannot
find a clear explanation about the issue in the Qur'an or hadiths. So,
the muslims struggle to figure out the issue. Is it ok for muslims to
have a baby through this new method? Some people say yes, and some
people say no.....In the event like this, this is where the ulama play
their role. They will debate it and find a common decision. Finally
they came out, its ok as long as the eggs and the sperm used came from
a married couple.


And you claim that their
decision is "Islamic" and that its unIslamic
to go against you ulamak?


Whoelse can you rely on if not the people who spend time to study it.
Anybody can be the ulamaks but they have to do all the work to reach
that status. Just like professors. If you do enough scholarships work,
you will be awarded the professorship. I am sure you have heard the
word "teacher" "tutor", "lecture", assistant prof. Professor, adjunct.
prof.......Its the same thing ...."guru", "imam", "ustaz", "Kadi" and
"ulamak". The ulamaks is just ordinary people but because of their
knowledge and scholarships, they become the religious authority which
in Islamic tradition we called them ulamaks....Some called it
"ayatollah" - in Shia tradition.


About going against the "ulamaks"......you can go againsts them. But
you have to have more knowledge then them. But of course if you have
reach that level, you are considered by many as ulamak themselves. So
if that happen, its actually two different ulamaks who have
differences. Nothing uncommon about that. Just like two scientists
differ with each other.

Tell us how in the above process can anyone
be sure that God actually agree to all thats
been determined by your ulamak?


Nothing is 100 %. But the ulamaks are the scholars. They do all the
study. They debate and the make consensus decision based on their
knowledge. Just like scientists do.We trust the scientists because of
their works.

And if you cannot, how do you then claim
later or that the ulamaks decision is from
God or part of God's edict to humans?


Ulamaks is just like you and me....human being, but they are the
scholars. So we rely on their scholarship work. the more knowledge
they have, the more reliable they can be. There is no 100 % guarantee.
Thats why we hear debate all the time.


Regarding "suicide" and "syahid". If you study the qur'an...killing
yourself is totally a sin and against Islam. However, the "suicide"
that we witnessed today have different flavor into it. They killed
themselves while taking the enemy along. Because of that nature, the
ulama still have difficulty to decide whether it is a plain "suicide"
which is a sin and "shahid" because of the sacrife is based on
destroying the enemy......So it still up in the air.


Tell us...
Where can we find hadiths (you did
say that you rely on hadiths for guidance)
that mentiond that the prophet asked his
people to commit suicide as you suggest
against the pagan Arabs back then who
outnumber them.


None. Nothing specific. Thats why you rely on the works of the
ulamaks. They do the research. Ever heard the word "Qias"? Just like
we rely on the work of scientists. I am sure you have seen the words
like "indicate", "suggests" in research journals....The ulamaks use
the same approach...look at the Qur'an, then hadiths, if its not
clear, they sit down and debate it, and come out with a concensus.
Sometimes, they get everybody agree on it, sometimes they reach
through majority...
To make it easier for you to understand, it more or less like a
governing system - parliamentary for example, you have problem and
need new law or revise the current law. What they do? Well, all the MP
debate about the issue, and then finally pass a new law. So its the
same process. The only different, this time its done by the Islamic
scholars (the ulamaks) and they use religious sources to make their
arguments.



Some say its
"syahid", some says it not. If you ask the Palestinians, they will
answer it as shahid. They say thats the only way the can defend
themselves from the Israel. But for people who live far away like us,
our ulama might see it differently. So I think, as far as I know there
is still no concensus about it.


What make you think that "consensus" equates
to God's will?


Thats the best human can do under those circumstances. We hope our
efforts and our intention will be accepted by God.
 




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