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Air France? Ptui!



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 17th, 2006, 09:47 PM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.french
nobody[_1_]
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Posts: 356
Default Air France? Ptui!

Barry Gold wrote:
OTOH, when it comes to a "business" that is run by the government,
like Air France, well, you can expect about as much service as you
would from, say, the INS in the US.



In case you had not heard, Air France is now a wholly owned subsidiary
of Air-France-KLM. So it is not government owned anymore.

Air-France-KLM is, as of martch 31 2006: 269 383 518 shares of about
8,50 euros, owned by:

Widely owned :65.8%
Government: 18.6%
Employéees: 15.1%
Self: 1.5%

AF had gone though a long period of upheavals and cutbacks in order to
make it papaltable for an IPO, at which point the french government
greatly reduced it ownership of the airline. And when AF merged with
KLM, that share of government ownership went down further.


In fact, AF-KLM is financially healthy and has done well in recent years
despite all the problems in the industry.
  #22  
Old October 17th, 2006, 09:50 PM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
Padraig Breathnach
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Posts: 1,358
Default Air France? Ptui!

Phoenix wrote:

In article , says...
qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]


Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them. OTOH, if
you think that they ought to speak English because that is the right
and proper language, you are likely to get what you deserve. (The
bare _attempt_ to stumble through a sentence in French was enough to
get me smiling help -- in English.)



That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn to
string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to smile and
warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches hell for it when
the same is true everywhere.

Can you guys imagine a Russian coming to the US and getting bent out of
shape because no one will answer him in his language? A bit psycho, no?
Well, that's how the British and the US tourists act a lot of the time
in foreign countries.

When I travel, I have only two languages at my disposal: first
language English and fair French (Gaelic is not very useful except for
private conversations with Herself or as a device to deflect unwanted
attention). I have not had great difficulty in countries where neither
English nor French is a principal language. There is a simple
expedient: ask first if somebody understands English. Even if he or
she does not, the request usually creates a positive disposition.
Gestures, smiles (always useful), co-operation, and patience complete
the job.

I think it is hard to overemphasise the importance of asking if
somebody understands English (preferably by learning how to do so in
the local language). It removes any suggestion of arrogance.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing:
http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
  #23  
Old October 17th, 2006, 11:03 PM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
Padraig Breathnach
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,358
Default Air France? Ptui!

theresa wrote:

"Bonjour {M. or Mlle.} mais -- ma Francais est tres mal, et
voulez vous aidez-moi, s'il vous plait?"

That has gotten me around France on many a journey. And until
recently, when they inexplicably grew more cheerful (I heard it
was meds), the French were not mean, they were grumpy, and a
kind demeanor went far in reminding them that the world
(especially the US) was not a totally screwed up place.


Butbutbut... the world IS a totally screwed up place.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/
  #24  
Old October 18th, 2006, 02:21 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
Tchiowa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,374
Default Air France? Ptui!


Phoenix wrote:
In article , says...
qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]


Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them. OTOH, if
you think that they ought to speak English because that is the right
and proper language, you are likely to get what you deserve. (The
bare _attempt_ to stumble through a sentence in French was enough to
get me smiling help -- in English.)



That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn to
string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to smile and
warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches hell for it when
the same is true everywhere.


Because that's not what the French do. I have found (advised originally
by friends and it turned out to be true) that if you are in France and
speak to someone in any language other than French or English they will
happily switch to English (if they can) and help you. But if you
approach them in English you get treated like dirt.

If I use English in France I get nowhere. But if I use Portuguese they
switch to English and are very helpful.

It has to do with more than a little bit of jealousy because England
and the US are now more highly "ranked" in the world than France (while
the French think they are the most important country in the world) and
outright anger that English has become the international language
instead of French.

  #25  
Old October 18th, 2006, 02:28 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
Kris Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Air France? Ptui!


"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ps.com...

Phoenix wrote:
In article , says...
qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]


Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them. OTOH, if
you think that they ought to speak English because that is the right
and proper language, you are likely to get what you deserve. (The
bare _attempt_ to stumble through a sentence in French was enough to
get me smiling help -- in English.)



That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn to
string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to smile and
warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches hell for it when
the same is true everywhere.


Because that's not what the French do. I have found (advised originally
by friends and it turned out to be true) that if you are in France and
speak to someone in any language other than French or English they will
happily switch to English (if they can) and help you. But if you
approach them in English you get treated like dirt.


That wasn't our experience at all. We made plenty of goofs, laughed
at ourselves, let them laugh at us, and were treated well.

The *only* rude person we encountered in France was a young man
we asked for directions. He turned out to be from London, who
started in on an anti-French rant, telling us how lucky we were to
have asked him, instead of a Frenchman who'd have answered
rudely. That made a good party story that evening.

Kris


  #26  
Old October 18th, 2006, 03:18 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
quietguy[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Air France? Ptui!

Most of them can't even speak English!

David

Barry Gold wrote:

qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]
People just don't understand: The French have no concept of "customer
service". They don't know what it is, they don't undersand how it
works, it is totally foreign to their culture.


  #27  
Old October 18th, 2006, 06:50 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
higginster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Air France? Ptui!

Some of the easiest ways to learn languages are on this site:

http://easylanguagelearning.blogspot.com/

  #28  
Old October 18th, 2006, 06:51 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
higginster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default Air France? Ptui!

Some of the easiest ways to learn languages are on this site:

http://easylanguagelearning.blogspot.com/

  #29  
Old October 18th, 2006, 06:54 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
Tchiowa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,374
Default Air France? Ptui!


Kris Baker wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ps.com...

Phoenix wrote:
In article , says...
qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]

Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them. OTOH, if
you think that they ought to speak English because that is the right
and proper language, you are likely to get what you deserve. (The
bare _attempt_ to stumble through a sentence in French was enough to
get me smiling help -- in English.)


That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn to
string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to smile and
warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches hell for it when
the same is true everywhere.


Because that's not what the French do. I have found (advised originally
by friends and it turned out to be true) that if you are in France and
speak to someone in any language other than French or English they will
happily switch to English (if they can) and help you. But if you
approach them in English you get treated like dirt.


That wasn't our experience at all. We made plenty of goofs, laughed
at ourselves, let them laugh at us, and were treated well.

The *only* rude person we encountered in France was a young man
we asked for directions. He turned out to be from London, who
started in on an anti-French rant, telling us how lucky we were to
have asked him, instead of a Frenchman who'd have answered
rudely. That made a good party story that evening.


I suggest that you were "lucky". My job in the 90s took me to Paris for
about a day or so close to 100 times. I could count the number of times
I was *not* treated rudely on one hand.

  #30  
Old October 18th, 2006, 07:16 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,misc.consumers,soc.culture.french,alt.gossip.celebrities
Phoenix
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default Air France? Ptui!

In article . com,
says...

Kris Baker wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ps.com...

Phoenix wrote:
In article ,
says...
qu'est-ce que c'est wrote:
[snip]

Overall, I've found the French helpful if you will just take the
trouble to learn a few hundred words of French and use them. OTOH, if
you think that they ought to speak English because that is the right
and proper language, you are likely to get what you deserve. (The
bare _attempt_ to stumble through a sentence in French was enough to
get me smiling help -- in English.)


That's true in any foreign country, as far as I've noticed. Learn to
string together a few sentences and people suddenly start to smile and
warmly help you out. I have no idea why France catches hell for it when
the same is true everywhere.

Because that's not what the French do. I have found (advised originally
by friends and it turned out to be true) that if you are in France and
speak to someone in any language other than French or English they will
happily switch to English (if they can) and help you. But if you
approach them in English you get treated like dirt.


That wasn't our experience at all. We made plenty of goofs, laughed
at ourselves, let them laugh at us, and were treated well.

The *only* rude person we encountered in France was a young man
we asked for directions. He turned out to be from London, who
started in on an anti-French rant, telling us how lucky we were to
have asked him, instead of a Frenchman who'd have answered
rudely. That made a good party story that evening.


I suggest that you were "lucky". My job in the 90s took me to Paris for
about a day or so close to 100 times. I could count the number of times
I was *not* treated rudely on one hand.


As compared to what other non-English country? If you've only blared
away in France, expecting everyone to fall on their knees for you, then
you don't have much to compare the country to.

bel



 




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