Air Canada AC875 / 2875 FrankfurtMontreal - No foolin'

First, some pictures for you:

http://www.dunnett.com/AC875/ac875.html

April 1, 2008


Air Canada Customer Service

AC 875 / AC2875

To Whom it may concern:

I am writing today with regards to Air Canada flight 875 and 2-875
from Frankfurt to Montreal on March 21 and 22, 2008.

The flight was scheduled to leave Frankfurt Germany at 11:10 AM on
March 21, 2008. The boarding of the aircraft was routine and without
incident. Following the completion of the first boarding, passengers
- including myself - remained seated inside the aircraft for
approximately 90 minutes after which the Captain of the aircraft
(Mason) advised the passengers that there was a mechanical malfunction
(ignition failure) with the port side engine and that we would be
deplaning. Captain Mason stated that the aircraft would be deplaned
because of the inability to cool the inside of the aircraft during the
repair procedure. We remained at the gate for another 60-90 minutes
before reboarding. Once we were back on the plane it took another 90
minutes for the plane to be de-iced. The aircraft was then pushed back
for departure whereupon we were told by Captain Mason that "this plane
will not fly today." and that the aircraft was being towed to another
area of the airport for deplaning. By this time the temperature
inside the aircraft had become unbearable. The aircraft was then towed
to a holding area. At that time Captain Mason had changed his mind and
decided to try to salvage the flight, advising us that a part was
coming from Lufthansa and that after the part arrived and the repairs
were made the flight would depart. By now the temperature in the cabin
had peaked causing passengers - especially the infants and elderly on
board - extreme discomfort. The air inside the cabin was stale and the
odour from the toilets was overwhelming. At one point the cabin crew
opened the aircraft doors to try to alleviate the heat and the stench,
but this did little to improve the conditions in the cabin. I saw one
mother with her child move past us - the child's head was flush from
the heat. A female passenger behind us barely made it to one of the
cabin crew for water - she was very close to passing out. At this time
I removed my video equipment from the overhead cabin and began to
document the scene and conditions on the aircraft. It was obvious that
in addition to the extremely uncomfortable conditions, the passengers
- myself included - were experiencing anxiety over the manner in which
the situation was being handled and about the integrity of the
aircraft itself. At this point myself and at least 2 other passengers
approached a flight attendant and expressed our concerns about our
circumstances and in integrity of the aircraft and the hurried repairs
that were being made. We made it clear to the flight attendant that we
did not wish to travel on this aircraft and that we wished to leave
the aircraft. At that time the senior flight attendant in charge
approached both myself and the other passengers who wished to deplane
and went into what must have been a very well rehearsed speech
designed to intimidate those who may want to exit the aircraft under
adverse circumstances and delivered loudly and forcefully in such a
manner as to be heard by all of the other passengers in the cabin. It
was evident that the senior flight attendant was trying to bully and /
or humiliate us. I felt at this point that we were being both stalled
and held against our wishes. I was becoming physically ill and I was
stifling the urge vomit. Withing 30 minutes of the the senior flight
attendant's diatribe, Captain Mason informed us that he could not
obtain permission from NavCanada to operate the aircraft and that he
was officially cancelling the flight. That announcement came at
approximately 4:30 pm. We were then kept on the aircraft for
approximately another 30 minutes waiting for buses to arrive to take
us back to the terminal.

When the buses arrived we were allowed to deplane. We were taken back
to the terminal and given insufficient information with regards to how
the cancellation would be dealt with. It was mayhem. We finally
learned that we would be staying another night in Frankfurt. In spite
of the sketchy information that was provided to us by the cabin crew,
most of the passengers located the hotel representative who lead us
through the terminal to more awaiting buses which in turn took us to a
local hotel for the evening. Upon check-in we were told that
information on the rescheduled flight would be provided later that
evening. We learned later that night that the flight was rescheduled
for 9:00 AM and that 5:00 AM wake up calls had been ordered for all
passengers by Air Canada. I did not receive such a wake up call. On
the morning of March 22, 2008 we boarded buses that took us back to
the terminal at Frankfurt where we made our way to the Air Canada
check-in counter. At 6:15 AM I was one of the first in line at the
counter. At 7:05 AM only two Air Canada ticketing agents were present
and only one of those was actively attending to passengers. At that
time the number of passengers waiting to be processed included all of
those from the cancelled flight plus the passengers from a regularly
scheduled flight. It was a scene of utter kaos. A male Air Canada
agent busied himself by slowly loading labels into the luggage tag
printers while the other female agent tried to process a growing,
frustrated group of passengers from two flights. The female agent had
a large stack of pre-printed boarding passes. As passengers pushed
forward and presented themselves she would attempt to flip through the
stack of boarding passes one at a time looking for that passengers
name. At least twice she moved from behind the counter out into the
mass of passengers waving the boarding passes around and shrieking
that the passengers must get in line - even though they were in line
and had been since 6:15. The actions (and inaction) of the Air Canada
counter agents caused even more agitation amongst the large crowd of
passengers. At one point a frustrated passenger continued to ask the
make agent who was loading the baggage tag printers why he was not
helping process passengers. The Air Canada ticket agent did not reply
or even acknowledge the question and continued to load the printers
while ignoring the passenger. At approximately 8 AM I received my
boarding pass. When my flight landed in Montreal I had less than one
hour to catch the connecting flight I had been re-booked on.
Throughout this connection I found the Air Canada staff to be both
unhelpful and unfriendly. As part of my luggage I had a case that
contained two valuable musical instruments and as per the instructions
of the Air Canada gate agents, these were submitted by hand to the
"special" baggage handling areas. One both occasions when I collected
my luggage the instrument case was delivered with the regular luggage
which, in Montreal, almost caused me to miss my flight. One of the
instruments was damaged during handling.

In air travel, it is completely reasonable to expect delays due to a
variety of reasons and as a reasonable person and a regular air
traveler, I can accept that. As a reasonable person and regular air
traveler, I also have certain expectations. I do not think it is
unreasonable to expect that Air Canada would anticipate scenarios
such as flight AC875 and that contingency plans would be in place and
would be designed to minimize the stress and discomfort a passenger
might experience under such circumstances.

Nothing - nothing I experienced on AC875 or AC2875 would lead me to
believe that the Air Canada representatives involved in this situation
truly cared about Air Canada's customers on AC875 or AC2875. We were
all treated like cattle. Nothing I experienced would lead me to
believe that any contingency Air Canada might have for such incidents
was practiced or properly executed. The senior flight attendant was
nothing less than abusive in her attempts to bully and humiliate
passengers who voiced legitimate concerns. The agents at the Air
Canada check in counter were unhelpful, unfriendly, abusive,
unprepared and incompetent. As a photojournalist, I want Air Canada to
understand that my experience on flight AC875 and AC2875 is well
documented in both photo and video.

You may view some but not all of the images by following this link:

http://www.dunnett.com/AC875/ac875.html

I chose to fly with Air Canada not because I want to, but because most
of the time I have no other choice. On the occasions where I do have a
choice, I will fly with another airline, even it it means driving to
another city. In spite of those efforts I still find myself a
"Platinum" Aeroplan member. (Who is STILL owed a promised number of
upgrade passes upon becoming a Platinum member - might those be coming
anytime soon?). I know that at some point I will have to no choice but
to fly with Air Canada, and that is, in part, one reason for this
letter. As a reasonable person, I would like to afford Air Canada the
opportunity to make good on what was the worst travel experience I
have ever had in my 45 years. It didn't have to be this way and it
would have taken so little to make this difficult situation manageable.

wrote:
First, some pictures for you:

http://www.dunnett.com/AC875/ac875.html
that were being made. We made it clear to the flight attendant that we
did not wish to travel on this aircraft and that we wished to leave
the aircraft. At that time the senior flight attendant in charge
approached both myself and the other passengers who wished to deplane
and went into what must have been a very well rehearsed speech
designed to intimidate those who may want to exit the aircraft under
adverse circumstances and delivered loudly and forcefully in such a
manner as to be heard by all of the other passengers in the cabin.


You met one of the Air Canada Atilla-the-Hun stewardesses :-)

In fairness, I can understand why the FA would have been very stern with
you: it is to prevent a sort of panic movement that would spread
throughout all passengers. Flight attendants get training on crowd
control, and they are trained to use "force" (strong/loud) voice to
ensure passengers comply (think about evacuation where some passengers
in shock might need strong stern calls to get them to move.)

Whether such tone was called for in your situation is, of course,
debatable. If you had managed to get to the FA in a more private area
(galley for instance), it is likely the FA might have had a more
peer-to-peer conversation with you, knowing it would not be heard by
other passengers.


The in-plane experience is not too obvious. The FAs obey what the
captain tells them, and if the Captain thinks they can fix it in less
than X minutes, then it might be worth to stay put since deplaning and
replaning might take more time. If you were still at the gate, I don't
understand why they didn't plug the aircraft into the airport air
conditioning system or just cart one of the portable units and plug the
flexible duct into the aircraft.

Opening the doors was probably a huge undertaking for those FAs. They
are just not used to such activities... Did they take any steps to
prevent passenger from falling out of the aircraft ? (good chance of death).

or were the doors just pulled in to have a slight opening with no danger
of anyone falling out ?



One thing you did not mention about the airport staff is whether they
were Air Canada employees or employees of a generic company hired by Air
Canada to process the cattle.


Air Canada is not known for handling things well when things go bezerk.
And your experience provides a great glimpse of what Air Canada is all
about. As long as revenu comes in and planes fly, it is a palatable
airline, but when things don't run normally, it just doesn't have what
it takes to come anywhere near real airlines like Singapore or Cathay.



In terms of having insufficient staff at the counters, one possible
reason is that if the AC crew normally arrives at say 07:30 for the
first flight out (I think it is normally at 10:00), it isn't extremely
obvious that they could have called them the night before to tell them
to arrive at 06:00 instead.

I am in no way trying to defend Air Canada , just trying to see why
thing go wrong. And yes, a good airline would have taken measures to
alleviate this situation, and it those situations that separate the good
airlines from the bad ones.

What is a shame is that the AC civil servants will probably process your
complaint and file it whertever they file complainst in India. I don't
think that they consider that passengers can teach the airline anything
whcih is why they've moved those departments (as well as baggage
complaints) to India.

You met one of the Air Canada Atilla-the-Hun stewardesses :-)


Trust me, I have met MANY. Atilla would be a fine hostess by
comparison to these Trunchbulls.

In fairness, I can understand why the FA would have been very stern with
you: it is to prevent a sort of panic movement that would spread
throughout all passengers.

Have a look at the pictures - there was no panic, only concern and
anxiety. Neither myself nor the other two passengers who did not wish
to fly on that particular aircraft where being loud or abusive. In
fact, when I approached the stewardess I was very quiet about it. I
was not trying to create any sort of problem, I was not loud, I was
not abusive.

Flight attendants get training on crowd
control, and they are trained to use "force" (strong/loud) voice to
ensure passengers comply (think about evacuation where some passengers
in shock might need strong stern calls to get them to move.)

The FA's words were to this affect: "Do you really want to get off and
have us have to unload your luggage and cause a delay and
inconvenience to your fellow passengers?" Those comments were
delivered in such a way that it was obvious the entire cabin would
hear. It was about humiliating and silencing a passenger with a
legitimate concern about the safety of the aircraft

It had nothing to do with crowd control. It had EVERYTHING to do with
minimizing expense for Air Canada. I was terrified and I was not
alone. You can see the concern on the faces of the other passengers
who were also scared.


Whether such tone was called for in your situation is, of course,
debatable. If you had managed to get to the FA in a more private area
(galley for instance), it is likely the FA might have had a more
peer-to-peer conversation with you, knowing it would not be heard by
other passengers.

That did occur with the first flight attendant who said she would pass
along our names to the Purser. The FA who made the loud, abusive
speech made her way back to my seat about 10 minutes after I gave our
names to the first flight attendant. A perfect example of Air Canada
making a bad situation worse, all so they could maybe save a few
bucks. It certainly did not inspire any confidence in the repairs that
were going on while this was happening.

The in-plane experience is not too obvious. The FAs obey what the
captain tells them, and if the Captain thinks they can fix it in less
than X minutes, then it might be worth to stay put since deplaning and
replaning might take more time.

We had already been deplaned. Why put us back on if there was still a
question about the aircraft's airworthiness or ability to even start
the engines?

If you were still at the gate, I don't
understand why they didn't plug the aircraft into the airport air
conditioning system or just cart one of the portable units and plug the
flexible duct into the aircraft.

Neither do I. Maybe it would have cost them $$$.



Opening the doors was probably a huge undertaking for those FAs. They
are just not used to such activities...

I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for them.

Did they take any steps to
prevent passenger from falling out of the aircraft ? (good chance of death).

or were the doors just pulled in to have a slight opening with no danger
of anyone falling out ?


As above - just a crack and they stood by the doors.


One thing you did not mention about the airport staff is whether they
were Air Canada employees or employees of a generic company hired by Air
Canada to process the cattle.

I believe these were Air Canada regular staff.


Air Canada is not known for handling things well when things go bezerk.
And your experience provides a great glimpse of what Air Canada is all
about. As long as revenu comes in and planes fly, it is a palatable
airline, but when things don't run normally, it just doesn't have what
it takes to come anywhere near real airlines like Singapore or Cathay.

And I want as many people as possible to know this. It ****es me off
that they even use the word Canada in their name.


In terms of having insufficient staff at the counters, one possible
reason is that if the AC crew normally arrives at say 07:30 for the
first flight out (I think it is normally at 10:00), it isn't extremely
obvious that they could have called them the night before to tell them
to arrive at 06:00 instead.

And pay overtime? They had the presence of mind to have boarding
passes printed in advance...


I am in no way trying to defend Air Canada , just trying to see why
thing go wrong. And yes, a good airline would have taken measures to
alleviate this situation, and it those situations that separate the good
airlines from the bad ones.

Yes. And Air Canada is a BAD airline. They need a whack on the nose
with a newspaper and I'm just the guy to roll one up and give it to
them - here and anywhere else I can.


What is a shame is that the AC civil servants will probably process your
complaint and file it whertever they file complainst in India.

You think I don't know this? Why do you think I'm posting this all
over the internet?

I don't
think that they consider that passengers can teach the airline anything
whcih is why they've moved those departments (as well as baggage
complaints) to India.

Maybe they should call it Air India then.

wrote:

Have a look at the pictures - there was no panic, only concern and
anxiety.

The point being that the FAs don't want to see a couple of passengers
start to make noises that would cause all of the aircraft to be scared
****/panic etc.


The FA's words were to this affect: "Do you really want to get off and
have us have to unload your luggage and cause a delay and
inconvenience to your fellow passengers?"

Yep, she decided to discredit you and portray you as a trouble maker
that wanted to cause further inconvenience to other passengers.
Definitely not nice to you. One would have to find out if this type of
passenger handling is part of AC training, or whether the FA just used
her power to shut you up and get rid of you and prevent you from being a
trouble maker.

Remember that if there are say 8 FAs for 250 passengers, if a "riot"
begins with Passengers revolting against AC, the 8 FAs will not be able
to contain this. The FAs would have been quite aware that passengers'
patience was wearing very thin considering the conditions they were in,
so they would want to nip any fuse in the bud before it got worse.

Now, if you had been in a good airline, the cheif FA or captain might
have come on the intercom and explained the situation to all pax and
regularly kept them abreast of the situations and explain why certain
things could or couldn't be done.


It had nothing to do with crowd control. It had EVERYTHING to do with
minimizing expense for Air Canada. I was terrified and I was not
alone. You can see the concern on the faces of the other passengers
who were also scared.

Frankly, I don't think that the FAs care about minimising expenses. They
are not involved in deciding whether AC will pay for additional gate
time, an air conditioner unit etc etc. They just work with what they
have. The Captains are probably far more empowered (although probably
still need to get permission from their ops centre).

We had already been deplaned. Why put us back on if there was still a
question about the aircraft's airworthiness or ability to even start
the engines?

There could be many reasons for that. Say the gate was needed for
another flight, they would want to stuff you back into the aircraft and
possibly then taxi aircraft to some other gate with all the pax already
loaded. But from your point of you, it looks really silly to get pax
back into aircraft if it isn't fixed yet.

Now, had the captain better informed the passengers, I think the
situation would have been far more tolerable because passenfers would at
least understand why they were being subjected to this treatment in the
aircraft.

And pay overtime? They had the presence of mind to have boarding
passes printed in advance...

This could have been done by the staff on the previous day who were
still on the duty hours.

But if Boarding passes were already printed, they should have proceeded
differently, perhaps calling passengers by name to check in (2 or 3 name
sin advance). This way, the FA would have the pax's boarding card handy
and just need to tag the bags and be done with it.

The lack of organisation does show that AC really does lack contigency
procedures, especially if they know that they will be short staffed when
the flight does depart again.


Yes. And Air Canada is a BAD airline. They need a whack on the nose
with a newspaper and I'm just the guy to roll one up and give it to
them - here and anywhere else I can.

I'd say that AC is a fair airline. Definitely not good, definitely not
excellent. But not terrible either. When you consider its size, it does
manage to run most of its flights without problems and when you are on a
problem free flight, it isn't a disaster.

What I don't understand is why they don't hire a service manager that
knows what needs to be done to make the journey enjoyable. This is where
airlines like Qantas, Air NZ, Singapore, Cathey really stand out
compared to bland airlines like AC who care only about moving an
aircraft from one city to another.

When JetBlue had many problems last year with pax stranded/kidnapped in
aircraft for hours on end, it made the papers, and JetBlue hired someone
to develop procedures that can be used in difficult situations to help
prevent those problems from turning into a disaster.

JetBlue is a young airline, started off as a low cost, so understandably
didn't have all that extra "management overhead" to plan for situations
that hadn't happened yet. Now they do.

Air Canada has been around for a very long time, and they have had their
fair share of really poorly handled situations. (understatement). One
wonders why they don't hire someone to take a good look at AC and change
what needs to be changes so that when problems arise, AC can handle them
with much more dignity and efficiency.





What is a shame is that the AC civil servants will probably process your
complaint and file it whertever they file complainst in India.

You think I don't know this? Why do you think I'm posting this all
over the internet?

I don't
think that they consider that passengers can teach the airline anything
whcih is why they've moved those departments (as well as baggage
complaints) to India.

Maybe they should call it Air India then.

On 5 Apr, 02:12, wrote:
First, some pictures for you:

http://www.dunnett.com/AC875/ac875.html

April 1, 2008

Air Canada Customer Service

AC 875 / AC2875

To Whom it may concern:
.....

Lucky it wasn't an A380 configured for economy.

Hi!

I'm one of the passengers of that flight too - and I'm going to pass
my complain to the Air Canada office here in Frankfurt today. (it's
only today I finally got time to file it all together).

I can confirm everything what was said here by the author of the
original message. Just the timing I have is different: as I saw it -
it was longer on every stage than he writes. First 1.5 hours delay
before first boarding, then 2 hours in the plane before fisrt
unboarding, then another 2 hours in the gate before second boarding
attempt. And then 5 hours in the aircraft - at least for us who was
taken by the last bus from the plane. So total delay was more than 10
hours before cancellation came.

Those photos that show people pulling the clothing on and off are 100%
correct: when it was already about 35-40 degree Celsius in the cabin
(I had a termometer for our baby - so we saw the temperature on it),
the crew opened the doors for some time - and for those fully wet (of
sweat) people sitting near the doors it was an urgent necessity to
pull something on when the wind of +3 degree celsius came in -
otherwise they'd ctach a flu or worse. For us with a baby it was even
worse - we had to pull it in and out the clothes too and it's not so
easy as you know, especially when the baby is stressed and screaming
all the time.

For us the worst thing was that near the end of the first day we were
already short of special baby food - and for a surprize there were no
baby food onboard! I never seen that before - Quantas and other
airlines always have some. And when they first promised to and then
declined to give the baggage back (where we had more baby food) - we
were really desperate. We had to run about to the shops to find some
baby food immediately.





On 5 ÁÐÒ, 03:12, wrote:
First, some pictures for you:

http://www.dunnett.com/AC875/ac875.html

April 1, 2008
skipped

I can attest that AC is a terrible, lousy, uncaring, ghastly airline.
Last June I was at Toronto, their home base, trying to fly to the US
with 3 elderly people, all needing wheelchairs. All of us were full
fare paying passengers. It was late morning on a weekday. This was the
experience:

1) We arrived 2.5 hours before the flight time. i helped the elders
from the taxi and seated them near the door. I went to seek assistance
from the counter staff, as the phone agent ahd advised me to do.
2) not one AC counter person seemed to know where one should request
wheelchairs. finally someone said to go to the special help counter.
This took 45 minutes.
3) The special help counter person didnt seem to have heard of a
wheelchair, much less know that she was supposed to help passengers
with such issues. while she was pondering this a female passenger
showed up with a small box of some homemade pastry which the airline
wouldnt let her take on board for some eprson. she asked the counter
person to help her pack it for check in! the counter person
immediately ignored me and started rummaging in her counter for some
kind of carton.
4) seeing that i was not going to get help I looked around in
desperation and saw a bunch of wheelchairs and decided to help myself.
fortunately, one of the wheelchair attendants arrived. She seemed to
have seen it all before. She helped me load the elders into the
wheelchairs and then took us to the correct counter designated for
wheelchair passengers. This was not the one one I had been directed to
originally by AC employees. Of course there were no signs or
anything.
5) There was no one at the counter. Now there was onl 60 minutes left
for the flight and we had to go through US immigration.
6) Again I looked around and saw an AC employee in uniform ambling by.
I told her the situation and she called someone else.
7) half an hour later someone came behind the counter and started to
process people. she hustled us through security and immigration

Yes, we finally made it but at the cost of very considerable stress
to me and to 3 elderly people and a constant feeling that AC couldn't
care less what happened to us.

The only thing their inefficency accomplished is to tell me and the
people with me and everyone I have told this experience to, not to fly
AC.




What is a shame is that the AC civil servants will probably process your
complaint and file it whertever they file complainst in India.

You think I don't know this? Why do you think I'm posting this all
over the internet?

I don't

think that they consider that passengers can teach the airline anything
whcih is why they've moved those departments (as well as baggage
complaints) to India.

Maybe they should call it Air India then.

Why blame India for this? They only do what AC tells them to do.

Quark

On Apr 8, 3:13 am, Xanf wrote:
Hi!

I'm one of the passengers of that flight too - and I'm going to pass
my complain to the Air Canada office here in Frankfurt today. (it's
only today I finally got time to file it all together).

I can confirm everything what was said here by the author of the
original message. Just the timing I have is different: as I saw it -
it was longer on every stage than he writes. First 1.5 hours delay
before first boarding, then 2 hours in the plane before fisrt
unboarding, then another 2 hours in the gate before second boarding
attempt. And then 5 hours in the aircraft - at least for us who was
taken by the last bus from the plane. So total delay was more than 10
hours before cancellation came.

Those photos that show people pulling the clothing on and off are 100%
correct: when it was already about 35-40 degree Celsius in the cabin
(I had a termometer for our baby - so we saw the temperature on it),
the crew opened the doors for some time - and for those fully wet (of
sweat) people sitting near the doors it was an urgent necessity to
pull something on when the wind of +3 degree celsius came in -
otherwise they'd ctach a flu or worse. For us with a baby it was even
worse - we had to pull it in and out the clothes too and it's not so
easy as you know, especially when the baby is stressed and screaming
all the time.

For us the worst thing was that near the end of the first day we were
already short of special baby food - and for a surprize there were no
baby food onboard! I never seen that before - Quantas and other
airlines always have some. And when they first promised to and then
declined to give the baggage back (where we had more baby food) - we
were really desperate. We had to run about to the shops to find some
baby food immediately.

On 5 ÁÐÒ, 03:12, wrote:

First, some pictures for you:

http://www.dunnett.com/AC875/ac875.html

April 1, 2008
skipped

Xanf and I have different recollections of the chronology. I do know
that the flight boarded on time, there is no doubt there, but if
anything Xanf's comments only underline the suffering of the
passengers when time becomes distorted - especially when traveling
with an infant. Xanf's comments bring to light a whole new and
different understanding of the level of discomfort that was
experienced by all of the passengers, but in particular those with
infants (there were at least 2 that were less than 1 year old and I
have video of one infant who is red from the heat and crying with the
mother trying to offer some comfort - I'm trying to get that one
televised on national TV). And of course there were several elderly
passengers who were also suffering greatly.

In my recollections what stood out was the heat and odor inside the
cabin, however Xanf is correct - when the FA's opened the doors it
must have been terribly cold for those sitting nearby.

I have yet to hear any sort of reply from Air Canada with regard to my
complaint.

I certainly hope other passengers on this flight step forward with
their personal experiences. As I said - I'm not about to let Air
Canada off the hook on this one.

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 3:13 am, Xanf wrote:
Hi!

I'm one of the passengers of that flight too - and I'm going to pass
my complain to the Air Canada office here in Frankfurt today. (it's
only today I finally got time to file it all together).

I can confirm everything what was said here by the author of the
original message. Just the timing I have is different: as I saw it -
it was longer on every stage than he writes. First 1.5 hours delay
before first boarding, then 2 hours in the plane before fisrt
unboarding, then another 2 hours in the gate before second boarding
attempt. And then 5 hours in the aircraft - at least for us who was
taken by the last bus from the plane. So total delay was more than 10
hours before cancellation came.

Those photos that show people pulling the clothing on and off are 100%
correct: when it was already about 35-40 degree Celsius in the cabin
(I had a termometer for our baby - so we saw the temperature on it),
the crew opened the doors for some time - and for those fully wet (of
sweat) people sitting near the doors it was an urgent necessity to
pull something on when the wind of +3 degree celsius came in -
otherwise they'd ctach a flu or worse. For us with a baby it was even
worse - we had to pull it in and out the clothes too and it's not so
easy as you know, especially when the baby is stressed and screaming
all the time.

For us the worst thing was that near the end of the first day we were
already short of special baby food - and for a surprize there were no
baby food onboard! I never seen that before - Quantas and other
airlines always have some. And when they first promised to and then
declined to give the baggage back (where we had more baby food) - we
were really desperate. We had to run about to the shops to find some
baby food immediately.

On 5 ÁÐÒ, 03:12, wrote:

First, some pictures for you:

http://www.dunnett.com/AC875/ac875.html

April 1, 2008
skipped

Xanf and I have different recollections of the chronology. I do know
that the flight boarded on time, there is no doubt there, but if
anything Xanf's comments only underline the suffering of the
passengers when time becomes distorted - especially when traveling
with an infant. Xanf's comments bring to light a whole new and
different understanding of the level of discomfort that was
experienced by all of the passengers, but in particular those with
infants (there were at least 2 that were less than 1 year old and I
have video of one infant who is red from the heat and crying with the
mother trying to offer some comfort - I'm trying to get that one
televised on national TV). And of course there were several elderly
passengers who were also suffering greatly.

In my recollections what stood out was the heat and odor inside the
cabin, however Xanf is correct - when the FA's opened the doors it
must have been terribly cold for those sitting nearby.

I have yet to hear any sort of reply from Air Canada with regard to my
complaint.

I certainly hope other passengers on this flight step forward with
their personal experiences. As I said - I'm not about to let Air
Canada off the hook on this one.


As the flight originated in Frankfurt you have rights under EU Legislation.
Did Air Canada make you aware of this? See
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air_po...rmation_en.htm
--

JohnT

Yesterday I passed the complain to the local Frankfurt Air Canada
office. They told me that the time for review the case and some
comments would be approximately 2 months. Great performance.

BTW - if at the end it comes to a court case or a public show - please
drop me an email and it's possible I'll be available to support it.
Additionally to my complain directly to the Air canada - I'm filing
also a case for the travel comfort insurance that I have. If it comes
to a claim - most probably the insurance company will also charge Air
Canada hard enough.


P.S.: my flight back from Canada with a flight AC 874 on 30th March
was again delayed for 1h45m and again for a technical reasons... What
a crap aircrafts or loosy tech support does Air Canada have?
Unbelievable...




On 8 ÁÐÒ, 19:57, wrote:
On Apr 8, 3:13 am, Xanf wrote:



Xanf and I have different recollections of the chronology. I do know
---------- skipped