Opinions on trains and planes.

"Eugene Miya" schrieb

Who has a 400 kph train?

Europe. The French TGV currently holds the speed record, with 574.8 kph
(But the German ICE is just slightly slower)
It's the tracks, and the frequent stops, that limit the speed to 320 kph.

The US with the long distances between towns would be ideal for
high speed trains running at 400+ kph.

Jochen

On Aug 18, 10:03*am, Dave Smith wrote:
James Silverton wrote:
Hello All!

Given the current cattle-car, skinflint conditions, two hour check-ins
and waits including security, etc. I wonder how long a journey people
would undertake by train if fast European or Japanese style trains were
available (say, 400 kph)? I would think that Washington DC to San
Francisco might be a bit far. The journey would take about 10 hours as
the unstopping crow flies but more likely 15 with a few stops and as the
track is laid.

I don't like to get up early in the morning but, allowing time to drive
to the airport, get thro' security, fly on a plane leaving at noon *and
drive a rental car to my hotel or other destination, I have to allocate
most of a day (certainly at least 12 hours) to get to San Francisco.
I've never been able to sleep on planes so "red eyes" are really that!

Fifteen years ago I traveled around Europe on rail pass and had a great
time. The TGV from Nice to Paris was about 8 hours, going the top speed
for only part of the trip. There are a lot of advantages to train over
there. It is a very popular mode of transport because they have more
frequent service and the passenger trains service so many more towns,
unlike train travel here in Canada which is infrequent and services only
the main corridors.

Most European train stations are located downtown and there are lots of
good hotels and restaurants close to the station. You don't have to be
there for hours before your departure, and even if you have to wait
there are usually good and affordable restaurants in the station
Airports OTOH, are generally way out of city so you have spend the extra
money and time to get there and to be there at least an hour before
departure time to check in and go through security. *When I went to
Europe back in June I was advised to be there three hours before
departure.-

European trains and public transportation are supported by huge tax
subsidies. Also Europe as a whole are smaller geographically than
either the US or Canada. So the two cannot be compared.

In article j5gqk.169$482.96@trnddc06,
James Silverton not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not wrote:
Given the current cattle-car, skinflint conditions, two hour check-ins
cattle cars ARE train cars.
and waits including security, etc. I wonder how long a journey people
would undertake by train if fast European or Japanese style trains were
available (say, 400 kph)? I would think that Washington DC to San
Francisco might be a bit far. The journey would take about 10 hours as
the unstopping crow flies but more likely 15 with a few stops and as the
track is laid.

Who has a 400 kph train?
A 300 KPH train with stops is not a 300 KPH train.

I don't like to get up early in the morning but, allowing time to drive
to the airport, get thro' security, fly on a plane leaving at noon and
drive a rental car to my hotel or other destination, I have to allocate
most of a day (certainly at least 12 hours) to get to San Francisco.
I've never been able to sleep on planes so "red eyes" are really that!

The Europeans deal with this with overnight trains.
You get a sleeper if you can afford one. Or you tough it out in seats.
It's just not worth the money for most people on a plane, yet.

The US may be too much of a car culture to think about trains anymore in
many ways. Jets have become our trains. James Fallows wrote a bit
about some of this (the 500 mile trip stat where flying really starts to
have advantages over driving).

--

On Aug 18, 10:39*am, "Jochen Kriegerowski" wrote:
"Eugene Miya" schrieb

Who has a 400 kph train?

Europe. The French TGV currently holds the speed record, with 574.8 kph
(But the German ICE is just slightly slower)
It's the tracks, and the frequent stops, that limit the speed to 320 kph.

The US with the long distances between towns would be ideal for
high speed trains running at 400+ kph.

Jochen

There are automobiles that can go over 200 mph also, but they can't be
used for general transportation. There is a difference between top
speed under a test situation and top speed in actual use.

Jochen Kriegerowski wrote:
"Eugene Miya" schrieb

Who has a 400 kph train?

Europe. The French TGV currently holds the speed record, with 574.8
kph (But the German ICE is just slightly slower)
It's the tracks, and the frequent stops, that limit the speed to 320
kph.

The US with the long distances between towns would be ideal for
high speed trains running at 400+ kph.

First you have to completely rebuild the infrastructure to allow such
speeds. This includes in many cases acquiring new rights of way and
in mountainous areas would often mean rerouting the tracks completely.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"PeterL" schrieb

There are automobiles that can go over 200 mph also, but they can't be
used for general transportation.

Not at that speed, usually. Right.
With cars it's the roads and traffic condition that prevent higher speeds
(and the fact that they don't run on tracks but have to be steered manually,
with the driver being the weakest link of the chain)

There is a difference between top speed under a test situation and top
speed in actual use.

Sure. 400 kph is still far away from the top speed under test conditions.

Jochen

"J. Clarke" schrieb

First you have to completely rebuild the infrastructure to allow such
speeds.

That's the same over here - Those high speed routes are completely
new because the old rail grid is limited to 160 to 200 kph: Too tight
curves, to steep inclines etc.

Jochen

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 10:42:11 -0700 (PDT), PeterL
wrote:

On Aug 18, 10:03*am, Dave Smith wrote:

European trains and public transportation are supported by huge tax
subsidies. Also Europe as a whole are smaller geographically than
either the US or Canada. So the two cannot be compared.

That's a misconception. Taken as a whole Europe is not all that
much smaller than the USA. The road distance from Nordkapp to
Gibralter is on the order of 6000km or about 1440 miles, and the
air distance from Lisbon to Kiev is abbout 2100 miles. From
Lisbon to Moscow is about 2425 miles.

The area of Europe is about 3,930,000 sq mi while the area of the
Lower 48 states is about 3,119,884 sq mi. There's some mushiness
in these figures due to land area or water area, and all, but
clearly the Lower 48 and Europe are of comparable size.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:13:07 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:


"James Silverton" wrote in message
news:j5gqk.169$482.96@trnddc06...

I don't like to get up early in the morning but, allowing time to drive to
the airport, get thro' security, fly on a plane leaving at noon and drive
a rental car to my hotel or other destination, I have to allocate most of
a day (certainly at least 12 hours) to get to San Francisco. I've never
been able to sleep on planes so "red eyes" are really that!

I would have thought that 5 hours is going to be the absolute max.


A few years ago in Germany we rode the ICE from Munich to Berlin,
a trip of about seven hours. That was a bit much no matter how
comfrotable teh ICE was and next time I think we'd probably fly.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:22:54 GMT, Stefan Patric
wrote:

I doubt if we'll ever see "bullet" trains (other than for commuting) in
the US. The rail system here, which is 60+ years old, just can't handle
really high speed trains.

In the rest of the world high speed trains run on special tracks,
anyway; regular tracks have curves that are too "tight" for high
speed, and high speed tracks need to be very smooth. I've not
ridden teh French TGVs but I have ridden the Eurostar several
times and there is none of the clickety-clacking and swaying you
expect on regular trains. Similarly ofr the Germna ICEs (which
only run at 250kph).

Also, Americans have a different mindset than
Europeans with regards to travel: Americans are too much in a hurry to
enjoy the trip.

I doubt that the business man taking a train from Hamburg to
Cologne is doing it for the enjoyment of the trip. If the
expectation is that HSR will make its money off people taking
trips for enjoyment, it will fail financially.

As far a maglev trains: The technology just isn't there. A US company
using a German company's maglev system has been trying for about 20 years
to build an elevated train from Las Vegas to Anaheim, CA--about a 300
mile trip. Total travel time, including two intermediate stops, would be
about 1.5 hours. Top speed of train is projected to be 350 miles per
hour. It's still on the drawing board.

Meanwhile, Shanghai has had a 30km maglev in operation for four
years and maglevs are being considered for other places in Asia.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *