Hawaii recommendations for 2 week stay? Maui and [??]

"Greg Mossman" wrote in message
...
"Marior" wrote in message
news:dhkLd.227192$6l.42667@pd7tw2no...

Agreed actually. I'm spoiled with places I can go whenever I want for
seclusion. Its definitely a Canada perk. That said Banff townsite
drives
me
batty. I can only be in certain places for so many hours then....

I like Banff in the off-season. But in the peak of the summer it gets as
crowded as any other tourist hot spot.

Absolutely. I wonder whether we all all make more allowances for risk
with
activities we each REALLY enjoy. Your love of diving likely makes you
consider the quality of dive far before the local politics, stability of
the
country, risk etc. I've modified some of my biking locales but the risk
is
still definite.

Not really. As divers, we learn how to properly gauge risk. Just because
a
murder rate of .000012 is 4 times higher than a murder rate of .000003,
it's
still not very likely that I'll be murdered. And many of the statistics
can
be "avoided" by taking simple precautions.

Like not being outside dining when a restaurant is hit by a drive by
shooting by bandits looking for somebody and not caring particularly who
else they hit. Maybe those people who are from my city and were killed
should've just stayed inside. Not clear how its avoidable in many
instances.

Mexico is a big country. There are plenty of places within Mexico that
are
much safer than Waikiki.

Thats really still stretching

Hardly.

Ah but you don't know where I would want to go if I went to Mexico.
Mexico
City is one.

You can't compare Waikiki with Mexico City. One is a practically
walled-in
security-guarded tourist island, the other is the largest city in the
world.

Walled in? Waikiki? Not sure what you're babbling about now.



Compare Waikiki with a popular Mexican tourist beach if you want to be
fair.
But even Honolulu in general can't compare to Mexico City.

But you said "Mexico" and my argument was that much of Mexico is as safe
as
Hawaii. Since my argument is that Mexico City skews the crime statistics,
you simply can't go there. Try again.

Demonstrate how much Mexico city skews it. the stats may be higher but
subtract it and the rest of the country still has a significant problem.

I covered that in my last post in reference to making it out of
Columbia.
Where I differ from you is I still factor the Mexico level as something
to
pay close attention to. You seem to dismiss it because its highly
unlikely.
That doesn't dimiss the 100k's of murders that have occurred there.

But if you take out the Sinaloa corridor (easy to avoid if you don't like
the desert), the border zone (easy to avoid if you don't like border
zones),

glad you at least mentioned the border zones.

and Mexico City (easy to avoid as long as you stay in the airport),

or etc etc which you don't mention.

you
leave a remainder filled with white sand beaches, lush jungles, and
mountain
forests waiting to be explored.

Yeah, fine, I'll explore these in other locales in safe, stable countries
and I'll enjoy it more in the knowledge that I'm in a safe, stable,
country..

Bicycling isn't going to be as comfortable
since the roads will be more potholed, when there are roads, and hiking
won't allow you the comfort of a helicopter airlift 15 minutes away
accessible by your cell phone, but the potential area left over after
avoiding the crime spots which skew the statistics is still thousands (or
at
least hundreds?) of times the size of Hawaii.

hey if you've got the $ for a helicopter airlift to a remote place that
hardly anybody can get to and that isn't really inhabited I'd suppose you
were safe from murder unless maybe you **** off your friends too much or
something. Most normal people end up having to drive to these locations and
driving in Mexico is a significant problem.

Hope you don't mind if I don't take you at face value on that as you've
been
about as wrong as is possible on many points in the thread thus far.
But
anyhow, Larcenys not my 1st concern as none of these robber types
attempts
to jack me personally as theres always an easier target just headed down
the
road. If it ever did happen the 50 bucks can be readily replaced, my
life
can't, homicides all I really worry about.

Crime is all about easier targets. Don't make yourself an easy target in
Hawaii and don't make yourself an easy target in Mexico. It's usually as
simple as that.

Sometimes its just wrong place wrong time as you si\uggested earlier but
probability still greater in mexico than hawaii.

1st of all I would rather take my vacation in Saskatoon than go to
Ixtapa
or
Manzanillo or Cancun. Why does anybody go to such contrived 3rd world
resorts.

What's Waikiki Beach? That's what you're comparing it to. Why does
anybody
go to such contrived 1st world resorts? That's the point of this whole
debate, Mr. All-Inclusive.

heh, see if you can guess who in my family wanted to go to Waikiki at all.
Trust me I prefer not to frequent resorts but you have me pegged however you
like anyhow.

I can't stand the idea of going to somewhere that was a pristine
beach just recently that was destroyed just to service the go nowhere,
see
nothing, all inclusive worshippers.

What do you think Waikiki looked like in the 'old days'? Yet you gush
over
the place.

Never gushed, and didn't care to go there actually. Kauai was clearly
stated as my preference. I've also never been at an inclusive in my life but
it doesn't matter to you anyway so just keep repeating whatever you want.

Why leave home just to empower the
Tourism industry involved in the wrecking of yet another part of the
world?

It's hardly up to me to determine how a developing country wants to make
money from rich first-worlders like you.

I've clearly got a preference for 1st world, thats fair and I'll stay away
from 3rd world.

Mexico has thousands of miles of
undisturbed beaches. Why not carve up a few to make some cash that can
boost the economy and provide jobs and infrastructure for their citizens?

Fair enough. The more limited coastal area on Hawaii is getting eaten up at
an alarming rate which does concern me.


It's not like we're a great role model. Southern California beaches are
relatively much more developed than Mexico's and our water quality is
often
pitiful.

Alberta does a better job of preserving what the tourists come to see. Not
perfect by any means but the National Parks are about as protected as it
gets in relation to amount of visitor demand.

If i'm going to a resort I'd prefer something like maybe Acapulco or
Puerto
Vallarta that wasn't wrecked in my life time where I can actually
access
some history, some local flavor, some towns.

Oh, I see. Waikiki wasn't wrecked in your lifetime so it's OK to visit
now.

Fair comment but I just don't want to encourage the encroachment of all
pristine beach or coast. my preference would be for some regions that were
developed and some preserved to be preserved for hopefully relative
eternity. Easy in Hawaii to see numerous examples where the developments
expand and connect like cancer eating up the whole coastal landscape. I'll
never encourage this by moving there as that decision just selfishly
contributes to the development corruption and I vacation in the region
sparingly and with some degree of guilt to what I am contributing to. It'll
obviously continue whatever I do and theres no easy answer. Although I
don't pile out of busses I don't pretend for an instant that i don't effect
just by being there.


Your grandchildren will be able to enjoy Cancun and Ixtapa, then?

It'll be 1st world by then!

The difference is that PV and Acapulco have been wrecked for so long that
they've become cities, meccas for pollution and crime. The newer resorts
are still almost pristine.

Newer resorts are Tacky, pandering to endless need, all inclusives. I'm not
at all attracted to the ostentatious presentation of these bloated casinos
on the beach. I do have a weakness for historic properties and will gladly
sacrifice unnecesary creature comforts to stay in such places. They don't
exist in Manzanillo. I prefer a grand old hotel on the cheap in an older
locale any day.

FWIW one of my friends went to
Manzanillo just 5 years ago and not a few miles outside of Manzanilllo
they
were stopped at a highly unauthorized checkpoint that was set up by a
drug
cartel that was apparently looking to murder the 1st rivals that came
along
and were amusing themselves in the meanwhile stopping everybody and
taking
their money at gunpoint. My friend complained to local officials who
did
nothing to confront the bandits who were stationed there for two full
days.
My friend investigated and found that everybody locally knew what was
going
on as it had happened chronically and that the authorities didn't DARE
intervene. After experiences the 1st day of the *checkpoint* none of the
tourists dared to leave town and my friends spent an entire week in
Manzanillo with nothing to do, nowhere to go. Stuck in nowhere
Manzanillo.
Fun holiday.

Sounds fine to me. I've spent weeks at a time on 100' boats with nothing
to
do, nowhere to go. I've done the same at little resorts in very
out-of-the-way places.

It doesn't bother you because you appear to have lots of free time or you've
successfully married work option with play, not sure which but all the power
to you btw.

Perhaps your friends get bored easily?

No, most people work 49weeks a year and go on holidays the limited rest of
the year and like to make optimal use of that time. If they could 50-50
holiday-work time they'd be less disappointed. Seems like you're in 50-50
mode or so and yes I'm jeolous.

archeological sites. We had accomodation picked, arrangements made, and
backed out. Further to the Manzanillo story someone else I knew had gone
to
the same sites we were going to go to and reported that they HAD to go
on
tours because the carjackings, robberies on the roads leading to the
sites
were so prolific that the tour buses had an armed security person on
board.
Again not my idea of a great fun time for family.

Keep them locked up safe inside the walls of the all-inclusive and shelter
them from the real world. That's much better for them. Like I said, you
should try Disneyland. You'd love it.

Wanna bet?

According to some info that's of an adult nature that I won't link too
its
50-50 street/brothel right now. As long as they don't do it right on
the
street or in public its allowed and streetwalking is flourishing in
Mexico.

Your information from your porno sites and your all-inclusive friends
doesn't impress me. I've been there. Recently.

I spent a week in the Los Cabos area a few months ago, covering Cabo San
Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, and up the coast to Cabo Pulmo, and I can't say
that I saw a single streetwalker there. Two months prior to that, I spent
a
week based in Cancun, with side trips to Playa del Carmen, Puerto Moreles,
and Cozumel, and I can't say that I saw I single streetwalker there.
Another five months before that I spent a weekend in Ensenada, driving
across the border at Tijuana, and I can't say that I saw a single
streetwalker there either.

Unfortunatley I don't believe you....

So since you're trying to educate me about somewhere you've never been,
somewhere where I visit several times a year, any argument you make just
sounds silly.

As silly as your Mexico is safer than Hawaii ongoing sermon.

sure looks like a problem existed but we noted it mainly in one area
when
we
were down there and we were not effected at all. Its not clear how it
really effects me anyhow. The only risk is to Johns and hookers really.

Do you want your family to be walking nearby when one pimp is shooting at
another? I can't believe you have so little disregard for your family's
welfare.

Produce info on how many pimp shootings theres been in Hawaii in the last
half dozen years. Nice picture that doesn't exist. Nice try.

"Marior" wrote in message
news:uevLd.234849$Xk.233656@pd7tw3no...

Like not being outside dining when a restaurant is hit by a drive by
shooting by bandits looking for somebody and not caring particularly who
else they hit. Maybe those people who are from my city and were killed
should've just stayed inside. Not clear how its avoidable in many
instances.

Maybe you're afraid because you come from such a safe haven.

Where I live, drive-by shootings are a fact of life. Whether it happens to
me in L.A. or Mexico doesn't really matter except, I suppose, that I'll get
through the emergency room faster in Mexico because they don't have the same
problems with medical care as we have in our country. If I get shot
downtown, I'd probably have to wait 3 hours before a doctor would see to me.

glad you at least mentioned the border zones.

Don't tell me you were planning a vacation to downtown Tijuana too and then
try to compare that to Waikiki.

you
leave a remainder filled with white sand beaches, lush jungles, and
mountain
forests waiting to be explored.

Yeah, fine, I'll explore these in other locales in safe, stable countries
and I'll enjoy it more in the knowledge that I'm in a safe, stable,
country..

Too bad for you that there aren't any domed-over countries for then you
could have climate control as well.

Most normal people end up having to drive to these locations and
driving in Mexico is a significant problem.

Now driving in Mexico is a significant problem? I've driven thousands of
miles all over Mexico. The Green Angel patrol system ensures that
breakdowns are attended to within 24 hours in even the most remote
locations. Fellow drivers are courteous, with truck drivers warning when
it's safe to pass, and when I had a flat once, another driver stopped to
help me fix it. I've never encountered that in L.A., though when I got a
flat once near downtown I did have a few homeless people crowd around and
ask me for money. Bill Cosby's kid stopped to fix a flat in L.A. and was
shot in the head.

Sometimes its just wrong place wrong time as you si\uggested earlier but
probability still greater in mexico than hawaii.

And given the thousands murdered in New York City, the probability of
getting killed there by terrorists is much greater than in Ottawa. But I
bet you're afraid to visit NYC too, so that's probably a poor example.

I've clearly got a preference for 1st world, thats fair and I'll stay away
from 3rd world.

Unfortunately for you, most undeveloped areas are in undeveloped countries.
But fortunately for us, your fear makes it less likely those places will be
spoiled anytime soon.

Fair enough. The more limited coastal area on Hawaii is getting eaten up
at
an alarming rate which does concern me.

It doesn't concern me. As it's relatively new geologically, we're not going
to miss much. There's simply not too much to kill to pave over Hawaii. A
few ferns, a few cockroaches, that's it. Kauai is ready to sink anyway in a
few million years and anything built on the Big Island will be lavaed over
in a few hundred.

Alberta does a better job of preserving what the tourists come to see. Not
perfect by any means but the National Parks are about as protected as it
gets in relation to amount of visitor demand.

Of course it's preserved, just like the steaks in my freezer. But I can't
see how you can justify building a huge metropolis like Banff Town in the
middle of your pristine National Park. We would never do that here. We
even ban cars from some of our parks.

Newer resorts are Tacky, pandering to endless need, all inclusives. I'm
not
at all attracted to the ostentatious presentation of these bloated casinos
on the beach. I do have a weakness for historic properties and will gladly
sacrifice unnecesary creature comforts to stay in such places. They don't
exist in Manzanillo. I prefer a grand old hotel on the cheap in an older
locale any day.

Casinos in Mexico? That's news to me.

As for Manzanillo, it's been settled since the early 1500s and today has
Mexico's largest port in the Pacific. If you want historic hotels, stay in
nearby Cuyutlan: "Cuyutlán is a small, antique resort, unique in Pacific
Mexico. It began as a beach haven for upper and middle-class Guadalajarans
when Porfirio Díaz's government pushed the rail route through around 1900.
Some of the old Porfirian-era hotels remain, as do the quaint wooden
walkways to the umbrella-festooned beach.The town has a number of claims to
fame, notably a mysterious giant "Green Wave", a Salt Museum that keeps
Cuyutlán's ancient salt-harvesting tradition alive, and a latter-day turtle
sanctuary and eco-education center."

But it's real dangerous. Your kids might get splinters walking on the
quaint wooden walkways to the umbrella-festooned beach.

It doesn't bother you because you appear to have lots of free time or
you've
successfully married work option with play, not sure which but all the
power
to you btw.

Free time? I wish. You have the time to roam around for months at a time.
I can barely get a week here or there and recovering from the two weeks I
took off for Christmas and New Year's almost killed me. It was much worse
than facing the tsunami and the very dangerous country of Myanmar.

No, most people work 49weeks a year and go on holidays the limited rest of
the year and like to make optimal use of that time. If they could 50-50
holiday-work time they'd be less disappointed. Seems like you're in 50-50
mode or so and yes I'm jeolous.

I just work harder than you when I'm home. If I take off midweek, I'm
working weekends and late nights to make up for it. Plus I end up spending
a half-hour to an hour per day most days when I'm 'on vacation' checking
messages and making emergency phone calls. I carry a sat phone when I'm
really remote just for that purpose. Of course it would also come in handy
when I get kidnapped someday from dangerous Manzanillo.

Plus it helps that, living in L.A., I'm only 5 hours from Hawaii and a short
drive or flight to Mexico. I've been on several 4 or 5 night trips to
Hawaii which makes it basically a long weekend.

week based in Cancun, with side trips to Playa del Carmen, Puerto
Moreles,
and Cozumel, and I can't say that I saw I single streetwalker there.
Another five months before that I spent a weekend in Ensenada, driving
across the border at Tijuana, and I can't say that I saw a single
streetwalker there either.

Unfortunatley I don't believe you....

Ask chilly, one of your fellow Canadians. I never lie to Canadians. I can
spot streetwalkers but I swear I didn't see any more streetwalkers in the
various places in Mexico that I visited last year than I saw in Calgary the
last time I was there.

Mexico has red-light districts, that's for sure. I don't hang out in the
red-light districts, or at least not when I'm traveling with a female
companion as I did all last year.

So since you're trying to educate me about somewhere you've never been,
somewhere where I visit several times a year, any argument you make just
sounds silly.

As silly as your Mexico is safer than Hawaii ongoing sermon.

But I've been to both Hawaii and Mexico plenty more times than you. I have
relatives living in Hawaii (and used to have some in Mexico). Obviously I
know better than you.

Produce info on how many pimp shootings theres been in Hawaii in the last
half dozen years. Nice picture that doesn't exist. Nice try.

You also have to realize that Hawaii makes most if not all its money from
tourism. Pineapples are cheaper to grow in Mexico. So the pimp shootings
are likely hushed up or deemed suicides.

"Greg Mossman" wrote in message
...
"Mimi" wrote in message
...

Why would this be so? Even if you have a suite, there's more room in a
condo. And you don't have to eat in those expensive bad restaurants,
which are much the majority in Hawaii. And condos may be very nicely
decorated with views of the ocean. I don't know what the pool's like at
the Ritz Carlton; it may be better.

Bad restaurants in Maui? Overpriced, perhaps, but certainly not bad. The
Big Island has bad restaurants, but you can eat very well in Maui.

The Plantation House, up near the Ritz in Kapalua, is one of Maui's best
seafood restaurants and has very decent prices. Places like Mama's Fish
House and David Paul's are pricier, but rival any of the best food
anywhere.

Why would you want to cook and wash dishes, take out the trash, set the
table, and grocery shop while you're on vacation?

I suppose you must make your own bed too. At the Ritz, they make the bed
for you.

Well, I like to grocery shop and I like to go to the farmer's markets and
buy fruit. The
dishwasher washes the dishes, the rest of that stuff isn't much work. And
sometimes
we go out to restaurants.

Marianne

"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 04:46:17 GMT, "eeo"
wrote:
...
And Kuhio is still a good place to rent "a friend." ;^)

If I had only known. LOL


The out going Mayor had made it his mission for the last 8 years to clean up
Waikiki. He did a good job but not everyone is delighted about having to go
all the way over to the convention center for a hooker. I'd have no idea
where to find one except my wife told me. She said she ran into a bunch of
them at 4 am on Kuhio while making her way to the start of the Marathon last
year. I guess they were there to provide encouragement or stress relief for
the athletes. LOL


eeo

"Mimi" wrote in message
...


Well, I like to grocery shop and I like to go to the farmer's markets and
buy fruit. The
dishwasher washes the dishes, the rest of that stuff isn't much work. And
sometimes
we go out to restaurants.



I like not having to pack so much clothing. It saves room for the dive
gear. Especially now that Hawaiian and Aloha Airlines have lowered their
bag weight limit to 60 lbs (IIRC.) And as far as eating out every meal,
well, that just leaves me not feeling all that much like a *regular* guy.


eeo

"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote...
I just got back, and Hawaiian Airlines made me repack our bags
because mine was 57 pounds and the clerk said 50 pounds was
the limit - so, right at the check-in counter, I put some heavy stuff
in my wife's bag. Same total!! Anyway 50 pounds per bag. I
could have checked in with the same 57 pound total in two bags
and that would be okay.
-------------
Also, you could carry on a 57lb. bag, if it met the size requirement.
I find it remarkable that your bag was heavier than your wife's. :-)

Thus spake (TheNewsGuy(Mike)) :

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 05:57:43 GMT, "eeo" wrote:

... Especially now that Hawaiian and Aloha Airlines have lowered their
bag weight limit to 60 lbs (IIRC.)

I just got back, and Hawaiian Airlines made me repack our bags because
mine was 57 pounds and the clerk said 50 pounds was the limit - so,
right at the check-in counter, I put some heavy stuff in my wife's
bag. Same total!! Anyway 50 pounds per bag. I could have checked
in with the same 57 pound total in two bags and that would be okay.
LOL!! I think it may be a union, or safety issue for the baggage
handlers.

Thou shalt not lift more than 50 pounds.

Every airline I've flown on in the last three years has said 50
pounds.

It's 70 on most international flights, however.

--
dillon

"When the French are against it, you know we can't
be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 05:57:43 GMT, "eeo" wrote:

... Especially now that Hawaiian and Aloha Airlines have lowered their
bag weight limit to 60 lbs (IIRC.)

I just got back, and Hawaiian Airlines made me repack our bags because
mine was 57 pounds and the clerk said 50 pounds was the limit - so,
right at the check-in counter, I put some heavy stuff in my wife's
bag. Same total!! Anyway 50 pounds per bag. I could have checked
in with the same 57 pound total in two bags and that would be okay.
LOL!! I think it may be a union, or safety issue for the baggage
handlers.


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"Dillon Pyron" wrote in message
news

Thou shalt not lift more than 50 pounds.

Every airline I've flown on in the last three years has said 50
pounds.

It's 70 on most international flights, however.

International baggage handlers must be stronger than domestic baggage
handlers.

Thus spake "chilly" :


"Dillon Pyron" wrote in message
news

Thou shalt not lift more than 50 pounds.

Every airline I've flown on in the last three years has said 50
pounds.

It's 70 on most international flights, however.

International baggage handlers must be stronger than domestic baggage
handlers.



Although when we flew back from CZM, Continental tagged our 51 lb bag
with a HEAVY tag, not that they otherwise bitched about it.

Must have been those two t-shirts I bought.

--
dillon

"When the French are against it, you know we can't
be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman