Just returned, HAL's ms Rotterdam in the Baltics

Greetings, RTC'ers,

I hope everyone is enjoying a great summer!

We just returned from a 12-night cruise on HAL's ms Rotterdam from Rotterdam
to Copenhagen with stops in Oslo, Norway; Arhus, Denmark; Warnemunde,
Germany; Tallinn, Estonia; St. Petersburg, Russia; Helsinki, Finland; and
Stockholm, Sweden. We spent time in The Netherlands pre-cruise and in
Copenhagen and London post-cruise. We traveled as a party of 5 adults and 3
kids spanning the ages 12 to a very active 82.

The itinerary was grand and the driving force behind our selection of the
HAL ms Rotterdam. Once interested, we couldn't pass on a "flash" sale of
cabins about 45 days pre-sail. Our cruise experience on the Rotterdam,
however, was just "okay." The ship is quite lovely (she's HAL's flagship,
and it shows); our staterooms were very comfortable (love those Euro
pillow-topped mattresses) and well-appointed (we lucked out on our
guaranteed booking and were assigned the highest category of OV's in a
convenient amidships location); and the Signature of Excellence enhancements
are nice, especially HAL's creation of a New York Times co-branded Internet
cafe and library/multimedia center (one great place to hang out!). The food
and entertainment as we experienced them on this cruise were not a good fit
for us, though, and with the exception of our stateroom attendant, who I'm
delighted to report was the best we've ever had, service generally was not
up to par (there had been staffing cutbacks on this ship).

We were fortunate to unexpectedly take a "just for fun" Caribbean cruise on
the Carnival Miracle in June, so with two cruises fresh in mind, it's easy
to make comparisons. Curiously, our HAL and Carnival cruises are sides A and
B of the same record (yeah, how old am I to talk about records??!)--we
thought the food and service on Carnival were top notch, but the ship was
ugly! Based on what we've seen on 13 cruises over the past 5-1/2 years since
we've discovered cruising--and we've now cruised on all of the mainstream
lines except Disney, plus enjoyed one small ship river cruise
experience--our family's happiest on Carnival, Princess and
Royal Caribbean (in no particular order--each has its strengths and
weaknesses). Celebrity is still a question mark--she failed to impress when
we tried the Millie in the Med last summer--and we just don't think HAL or
NCL are good fits for our tastes and interests. YMMV

We go back to school early in Texas, so considering post-trip catch-up and
back-to-school chores, I doubt I will get a trip report prepared soon enough
to be of benefit to anyone who may be going to the Baltics before the season
is over or cruising on the Rotterdam soon. However, I am happy to answer any
questions.

BTW, the current production of Guys and Dolls in London featuring Ewen
McGregor as Sky Masterson is unexpectedly magical! I wholeheartedly
recommend it to any of you who may be in London in the next few months. Ewen
is the draw, to be sure, and he is surprisingly good on stage, but the
runaway stars are the American singer/actress Jane Krakowski who plays Miss
Adelaide and, collectively, the ensemble cast of actors/singers/dancers who
play the missionaries and the gamblers, plus the orchestra. The normally
reserved British audience (compared to Broadway theatre goers) went wild at
the end of a contagiously enthusiastic, "Sit Down, You're Rockin' the Boat."
This musical (new to the West End and slated for a short run, at least with
the current cast) is very popular with residents, and our performance was
SRO--the first time I've ever seen folks pay to stand at the back!

Anyway, another memorable travel experience, moving right into anticipation
mode for the next....

Smooth sails to all,

Diana Ball
near Houston, TX

Welcome home, Diana, and thanks for the info on the Rotterdam. My cruise
friends tell me that I am not ready for HAL, but I hope to try them some
day. Maybe a 7-day cruise would be a little more livelier.

It is difficult for me to say which cruise line is my favorite. I would
have to say Princess, NCL, Carnival and RCI, in that order. I like
Freestyle and Personal Choice, although I know it does not suit
everybody. I enjoy the Solarium on Royal Caribbean, although their lunch
buffet is not the best. Celebrity was my least favorite cruise line,
but I hope that changes after I try the Millennium on the MOAGC2 in
February. I hear they have made some changes so I am looking forward to
it. I will be cruising with friends, so I am sure I will have a great time.

Becca


D Ball wrote:
Greetings, RTC'ers,

I hope everyone is enjoying a great summer!

We just returned from a 12-night cruise on HAL's ms Rotterdam from Rotterdam
to Copenhagen with stops in Oslo, Norway; Arhus, Denmark; Warnemunde,
Germany; Tallinn, Estonia; St. Petersburg, Russia; Helsinki, Finland; and
Stockholm, Sweden. We spent time in The Netherlands pre-cruise and in
Copenhagen and London post-cruise. We traveled as a party of 5 adults and 3
kids spanning the ages 12 to a very active 82.

The itinerary was grand and the driving force behind our selection of the
HAL ms Rotterdam. Once interested, we couldn't pass on a "flash" sale of
cabins about 45 days pre-sail. Our cruise experience on the Rotterdam,
however, was just "okay." The ship is quite lovely (she's HAL's flagship,
and it shows); our staterooms were very comfortable (love those Euro
pillow-topped mattresses) and well-appointed (we lucked out on our
guaranteed booking and were assigned the highest category of OV's in a
convenient amidships location); and the Signature of Excellence enhancements
are nice, especially HAL's creation of a New York Times co-branded Internet
cafe and library/multimedia center (one great place to hang out!). The food
and entertainment as we experienced them on this cruise were not a good fit
for us, though, and with the exception of our stateroom attendant, who I'm
delighted to report was the best we've ever had, service generally was not
up to par (there had been staffing cutbacks on this ship).

We were fortunate to unexpectedly take a "just for fun" Caribbean cruise on
the Carnival Miracle in June, so with two cruises fresh in mind, it's easy
to make comparisons. Curiously, our HAL and Carnival cruises are sides A and
B of the same record (yeah, how old am I to talk about records??!)--we
thought the food and service on Carnival were top notch, but the ship was
ugly! Based on what we've seen on 13 cruises over the past 5-1/2 years since
we've discovered cruising--and we've now cruised on all of the mainstream
lines except Disney, plus enjoyed one small ship river cruise
experience--our family's happiest on Carnival, Princess and
Royal Caribbean (in no particular order--each has its strengths and
weaknesses). Celebrity is still a question mark--she failed to impress when
we tried the Millie in the Med last summer--and we just don't think HAL or
NCL are good fits for our tastes and interests. YMMV

We go back to school early in Texas, so considering post-trip catch-up and
back-to-school chores, I doubt I will get a trip report prepared soon enough
to be of benefit to anyone who may be going to the Baltics before the season
is over or cruising on the Rotterdam soon. However, I am happy to answer any
questions.

BTW, the current production of Guys and Dolls in London featuring Ewen
McGregor as Sky Masterson is unexpectedly magical! I wholeheartedly
recommend it to any of you who may be in London in the next few months. Ewen
is the draw, to be sure, and he is surprisingly good on stage, but the
runaway stars are the American singer/actress Jane Krakowski who plays Miss
Adelaide and, collectively, the ensemble cast of actors/singers/dancers who
play the missionaries and the gamblers, plus the orchestra. The normally
reserved British audience (compared to Broadway theatre goers) went wild at
the end of a contagiously enthusiastic, "Sit Down, You're Rockin' the Boat."
This musical (new to the West End and slated for a short run, at least with
the current cast) is very popular with residents, and our performance was
SRO--the first time I've ever seen folks pay to stand at the back!

Anyway, another memorable travel experience, moving right into anticipation
mode for the next....

Smooth sails to all,

Diana Ball
near Houston, TX

Hi, neighbor, good to hear from you. I am still looking forward to cruising
with you one day--but let's make it Princess, LOL. Actually, I'm with you,
when you're with friends, the ship hardly matters. We had a ball traveling
with good friends on this Baltics adventure.

As for being "ready for HAL," there's the rub. Our 82-year-old friend who
was with us wasn't "ready for HAL." Doesn't that suggest HAL is out of touch
with the tastes and interests of its clientele? I mean, what exactly is that
magic age when I'll lose my taste for vindaloo or my interest in listening
to a raucous set of rock and roll?! I like baked chicken and torch songs,
too, but geez, considering how rich our lives are today with the explosion
of cuisines and entertainment options...I just don't think a steady diet of
"tepid" and "cautious" remains a successful hospitality plan for any market.
But I agree with you, a 7-day cruise on one of HAL's purpose-built Carib
ships, e.g., the Zuidy, must offer a cruise experience more similar to what
we've enjoyed on the other lines. I know many RTC friends have had a lot of
fun on those cruises.

Take care, Becca.

Diana

"Becca" wrote in message
...
Welcome home, Diana, and thanks for the info on the Rotterdam. My cruise
friends tell me that I am not ready for HAL, but I hope to try them some
day. Maybe a 7-day cruise would be a little more livelier.

It is difficult for me to say which cruise line is my favorite. I would
have to say Princess, NCL, Carnival and RCI, in that order. I like
Freestyle and Personal Choice, although I know it does not suit everybody.
I enjoy the Solarium on Royal Caribbean, although their lunch buffet is
not the best. Celebrity was my least favorite cruise line, but I hope
that changes after I try the Millennium on the MOAGC2 in February. I hear
they have made some changes so I am looking forward to it. I will be
cruising with friends, so I am sure I will have a great time.

Becca

"D Ball" wrote in message
...

As for being "ready for HAL," there's the rub. Our 82-year-old friend who
was with us wasn't "ready for HAL." Doesn't that suggest HAL is out of
touch
with the tastes and interests of its clientele?

It could be you and your 82 year old friend aren't the clientele HAL is
aimed at. I am fine with HAL, and I'm 45. I am not a big partier, nor do I
like hanging in bars, but I do go to the shows. I'm up early to hit the
gym, or even better, take a run on shore (I love it when they dock early).
I like HAL because of their iteneraries and the S class suites are a
reasonable price for a cabin size I could live with. I hate crowds and
lines, and both the ships and iteneraries I've sailed keep those to a
minimum. For instance, New England cruise in July was sold out, yet there
were no crowds for anything on the ship. The ports were not crowded, as we
were the only ship docked in any of the ports. In general, is HAL having
trouble filling ships? Do they need to expand to vindaloo and raucous rock
and roll?

(Extra note, I love Indian food, and all types of exotic food, prepared by
those who really know that food. I have yet to meet a head chef for HAL
that specialized in anything other than continental. And when they stray,
other than to Indonesian food, they usually go wrong. But they are great at
continental food. And when I get off the ship for lunch I can find my local
specialties.)

I mean, what exactly is that
magic age when I'll lose my taste for vindaloo or my interest in listening
to a raucous set of rock and roll?! I like baked chicken and torch songs,
too, but geez, considering how rich our lives are today with the explosion
of cuisines and entertainment options...I just don't think a steady diet
of
"tepid" and "cautious" remains a successful hospitality plan for any
market.
But I agree with you, a 7-day cruise on one of HAL's purpose-built Carib
ships, e.g., the Zuidy, must offer a cruise experience more similar to
what
we've enjoyed on the other lines. I know many RTC friends have had a lot
of
fun on those cruises.

Take care, Becca.

Diana

"Becca" wrote in message
...
Welcome home, Diana, and thanks for the info on the Rotterdam. My cruise
friends tell me that I am not ready for HAL, but I hope to try them some
day. Maybe a 7-day cruise would be a little more livelier.

It is difficult for me to say which cruise line is my favorite. I would
have to say Princess, NCL, Carnival and RCI, in that order. I like
Freestyle and Personal Choice, although I know it does not suit
everybody.
I enjoy the Solarium on Royal Caribbean, although their lunch buffet is
not the best. Celebrity was my least favorite cruise line, but I hope
that changes after I try the Millennium on the MOAGC2 in February. I
hear
they have made some changes so I am looking forward to it. I will be
cruising with friends, so I am sure I will have a great time.

Becca

Hi, Cathy.



I'm glad your HAL cruises have been a good match for your tastes and
interests. And actually, we don’t sound that different—we’re not big
partiers either, and we like the shows, use the gym, travel for itinerary,
etc. We simply found our Rotterdam experience on this particular voyage to
be…well, let me relate this story:



The first night aboard, a staffer confided that the staff and crew called
the Rotterdam “God’s Waiting Room.” I guess they thought we’d think that was
funny as, like you, most of us were among the under-50 minority. By the end
of the cruise, I had to agree with the nickname, but not because of the age
of the majority. It was HAL’s spiritless approach to so many things that
stamped out all hope of “joie de vivre” on that cruise.



We knew not to expect a lively atmosphere. I’m not trying to say they need
to cater more to kids or have hairy leg contests. And, of course, I didn’t
mean there had to be—or that I wanted—a non-stop, wild rock and roll party,
LOL. But yes, I most definitely believe there is a significant disconnect
between HAL and its client base when there is a failure to recognize that
the 55- to 70-year-old passengers on board that ship (without question, the
predominant age group) were in their teens and 20's during the musical
revolution of The 50's and 60's. Rock and roll in some form or fashion is
the music of their formative years…why does HAL think folks who were once
boppers and went to Woodstock now prefer a steady diet of the music of their
parents’ era? And regarding the musical tastes of those parents, as our
82-year-old friend pointed out, she naturally got hooked on rock and roll
listening to it all those years her kids were growing up.



We always admire the talent and breadth of the on-board musicians. I’m a
classical fan, and the group of classical musicians on the Rotterdam was
very talented. But I don’t want to sit and listen to classical every night!
And that’s really my point. I think it is reasonable to expect HAL to have
furnished a wider variety of featured musical genres during a 12-night
cruise, whether jazz, big band, swing dancing, Sinatra crooning, a Gershwin
and Porter set, rock and roll…you name it. Instead, with few exceptions,
there was a certain stale “live Muzak” sameness to the offerings. Oh, they
did have line dancing one night, LOL. Line dancing must be on the Top 10
List of Required Cruise Activities right up there with bingo and art
auctions (neither of which interests us). But no karaoke…that was a cruise
first for us (but another thing we didn’t miss).



food, like my rock and roll example, I wasn’t stuck on Indian. It just
came to mind because we discussed the scarcity of Indian and other Asian
cuisines with our head waiter from India. He blamed the older clients’
preferences for the scarcity of Indian and other Asian cuisines. You know,
when I was growing up, there wasn’t a single Chinese restaurant in my town,
much less Indian, Thai, sushi, etc. But in this millennium, and I daresay
for decades now, even small town America has grown accustomed to enjoying
Asian specialties. The idea that “blue hairs” prefer bland food or find
non-Western cuisines too exotic is not only rubbish, it’s patronizing.
Again, over the course of 12 nights catering to a mostly well-traveled,
sophisticated audience, a little pizzazz on the menu is an absolute
necessity, IMO, of course.



There were a few signature Indonesian dishes, the traditional Dutch night,
and the occasional Italian offering. Other than that, it was fairly
uninspired continental prepared in a rather dated fashion, heavy on sauces.
There were few fresh veggies and salad greens. The fruit soups and desserts
were quite good, and the bread was good when we had it during our main
seating because it was fresh and hot. There was no spa or heart healthy
menu, and no nutritional guide to the menu offerings, which did surprise me
because an older crowd is naturally going to be looking at sodium, fat,
carbs, etc. In fact, I found many preparations to be salty. The quality of
the ingredients was average to above average, with the exception of the
beef, which ranged from poor in the lido to just average in the specialty
restaurant.

Yes, we loved the itinerary, that is why we chose that cruise. No, we
weren't the only ship in any port...but I think that is a function of the
short Baltics season. HAL secured a few advantageous docking positions that
other lines did not, but it also had a few "bad" docking positions. HAL had
the nerve to charge as much as $5 per person each way for shuttle transport
from the port to town and back. Celebrity didn't charge for port shuttles in
the Med last year, and I haven't read any Baltics reviews of other lines
that charged for those shuttles. It wasn’t a huge biggie in terms of our
day…we just added the walk to our in-port walk-a-thon. But HAL‘s conscious
decision to zing those who didn’t book their ship’s tours really aggravated
me, especially considering they had most of their independent pax over a
barrel since few would add 50 minutes of walking to their day.



Speaking of dollars, yes, in my lay opinion, HAL was having trouble filling
this ship. A cruise line can only get in so many cruises during the short
Baltics season, with June being peak (White Nights) and July right behind
it. Don’t you think they should have sold this one out several months in
advance at the latest? Sane people usually plan extended international trips
farther in advance than we do. Instead, we bought our cabins during a
sale roughly 45 days out, as did every other poster to our Cruise Critic
Roll Call, at per diems noticeably lower than what the competition was
charging on mostly less-desirable (in my opinion) itineraries.



Cathy, don’t mistake me. I’m not whining. We certainly received bang for the
buck. The itinerary made for a fabulous travel adventure—the point of the
trip for us. And there was a lot to like about our onboard experience. All
in all, we had a wonderful time and are very fortunate to have been able to
take that trip.



Diana

Cruise food is no biggie, but it is nice to have something decent to
eat. Sammy has a hard time finding anything to eat on the lunch buffets
on Royal Caribbean, and it sounds like he would have a hard time on HAL,
too. It is even tougher when you are traveling with children, who tend
to be picky eaters. The Carnival ships have never disappointed me with
their food, neither has Princess.

Becca


D Ball wrote:

I'm glad your HAL cruises have been a good match for your tastes and
interests. And actually, we don’t sound that different—we’re not big
partiers either, and we like the shows, use the gym, travel for itinerary,
etc. We simply found our Rotterdam experience on this particular voyage to
be…well, let me relate this story:



The first night aboard, a staffer confided that the staff and crew called
the Rotterdam “God’s Waiting Room.” I guess they thought we’d think that was
funny as, like you, most of us were among the under-50 minority. By the end
of the cruise, I had to agree with the nickname, but not because of the age
of the majority. It was HAL’s spiritless approach to so many things that
stamped out all hope of “joie de vivre” on that cruise.



We knew not to expect a lively atmosphere. I’m not trying to say they need
to cater more to kids or have hairy leg contests. And, of course, I didn’t
mean there had to be—or that I wanted—a non-stop, wild rock and roll party,
LOL. But yes, I most definitely believe there is a significant disconnect
between HAL and its client base when there is a failure to recognize that
the 55- to 70-year-old passengers on board that ship (without question, the
predominant age group) were in their teens and 20's during the musical
revolution of The 50's and 60's. Rock and roll in some form or fashion is
the music of their formative years…why does HAL think folks who were once
boppers and went to Woodstock now prefer a steady diet of the music of their
parents’ era? And regarding the musical tastes of those parents, as our
82-year-old friend pointed out, she naturally got hooked on rock and roll
listening to it all those years her kids were growing up.



We always admire the talent and breadth of the on-board musicians. I’m a
classical fan, and the group of classical musicians on the Rotterdam was
very talented. But I don’t want to sit and listen to classical every night!
And that’s really my point. I think it is reasonable to expect HAL to have
furnished a wider variety of featured musical genres during a 12-night
cruise, whether jazz, big band, swing dancing, Sinatra crooning, a Gershwin
and Porter set, rock and roll…you name it. Instead, with few exceptions,
there was a certain stale “live Muzak” sameness to the offerings. Oh, they
did have line dancing one night, LOL. Line dancing must be on the Top 10
List of Required Cruise Activities right up there with bingo and art
auctions (neither of which interests us). But no karaoke…that was a cruise
first for us (but another thing we didn’t miss).



food, like my rock and roll example, I wasn’t stuck on Indian. It just
came to mind because we discussed the scarcity of Indian and other Asian
cuisines with our head waiter from India. He blamed the older clients’
preferences for the scarcity of Indian and other Asian cuisines. You know,
when I was growing up, there wasn’t a single Chinese restaurant in my town,
much less Indian, Thai, sushi, etc. But in this millennium, and I daresay
for decades now, even small town America has grown accustomed to enjoying
Asian specialties. The idea that “blue hairs” prefer bland food or find
non-Western cuisines too exotic is not only rubbish, it’s patronizing.
Again, over the course of 12 nights catering to a mostly well-traveled,
sophisticated audience, a little pizzazz on the menu is an absolute
necessity, IMO, of course.



There were a few signature Indonesian dishes, the traditional Dutch night,
and the occasional Italian offering. Other than that, it was fairly
uninspired continental prepared in a rather dated fashion, heavy on sauces.
There were few fresh veggies and salad greens. The fruit soups and desserts
were quite good, and the bread was good when we had it during our main
seating because it was fresh and hot. There was no spa or heart healthy
menu, and no nutritional guide to the menu offerings, which did surprise me
because an older crowd is naturally going to be looking at sodium, fat,
carbs, etc. In fact, I found many preparations to be salty. The quality of
the ingredients was average to above average, with the exception of the
beef, which ranged from poor in the lido to just average in the specialty
restaurant.

Yes, we loved the itinerary, that is why we chose that cruise. No, we
weren't the only ship in any port...but I think that is a function of the
short Baltics season. HAL secured a few advantageous docking positions that
other lines did not, but it also had a few "bad" docking positions. HAL had
the nerve to charge as much as $5 per person each way for shuttle transport
from the port to town and back. Celebrity didn't charge for port shuttles in
the Med last year, and I haven't read any Baltics reviews of other lines
that charged for those shuttles. It wasn’t a huge biggie in terms of our
day…we just added the walk to our in-port walk-a-thon. But HAL‘s conscious
decision to zing those who didn’t book their ship’s tours really aggravated
me, especially considering they had most of their independent pax over a
barrel since few would add 50 minutes of walking to their day.



Speaking of dollars, yes, in my lay opinion, HAL was having trouble filling
this ship. A cruise line can only get in so many cruises during the short
Baltics season, with June being peak (White Nights) and July right behind
it. Don’t you think they should have sold this one out several months in
advance at the latest? Sane people usually plan extended international trips
farther in advance than we do. Instead, we bought our cabins during a
sale roughly 45 days out, as did every other poster to our Cruise Critic
Roll Call, at per diems noticeably lower than what the competition was
charging on mostly less-desirable (in my opinion) itineraries.



Cathy, don’t mistake me. I’m not whining. We certainly received bang for the
buck. The itinerary made for a fabulous travel adventure—the point of the
trip for us. And there was a lot to like about our onboard experience. All
in all, we had a wonderful time and are very fortunate to have been able to
take that trip.



Diana

Diana--

I have to honestly say -- don't do it! The Z is the least successful
Caribbean cruise I have ever taken. Boredom city. Not even
classy/relaxing. They literally did nothing well, although I thought
the food was greatly improved from HAL of 5 years ago. I did love the
fat a__ suite at the back corner of the ship though.

I'm so jealous you got to see Guys and Dolls! Hmmm...need to check out
Site59.com and maybe spring for a pricey long weekend in London lol.

Off to the Amsterdam in Alaska in a few weeks....I vowed the only way
I'd do HAL again was destination oriented...and I'll get to Glacier Bay
this time! Hope y'all been well!

Jeff



D Ball wrote:

But I agree with you, a 7-day cruise on one of HAL's purpose-built Carib
ships, e.g., the Zuidy, must offer a cruise experience more similar to what
we've enjoyed on the other lines. I know many RTC friends have had a lot of
fun on those cruises.

Take care, Becca.

Diana

D Ball wrote:

Hi, neighbor, good to hear from you. I am still looking forward to
cruising with you one day--but let's make it Princess, LOL.

There are enough Texans in the group, we could have a group cruise out
of Galveston. Other people could join us, but we would have to supply
the armadillo's for the armadillo races.

Becca

I think Jean would be more than happy to bring her Alamo Armadillos.
Sadly, our little critters haven't fared this summer's drought too well.

"D Ball" wrote in message
...
I think Jean would be more than happy to bring her Alamo Armadillos.
Sadly, our little critters haven't fared this summer's drought too well.


Diana, San Antonio armadillos wear SPURS! Had to get that in with our NBA
Champions right here! ;-D
It has been a hot summer, but I think the temps were the highest while we
were in Alaska..We really do need rain though.
The weatherman keeps promising it, but it never comes to our part of the
city!

It certainly would be fun being part of a Texas group on a cruise,
again..The Grand Princess does port here! We did the Norwegian Sea out of
Houston in March of 2000..it was made up primarily of Texans and what a fun
cruise that was..We could have a Ball this time! Pun intended! ;-)

--Jean