International Drivers License?

On 24 Jul 2004 06:33:55 -0700, (Tam) wrote:

Well, my Québec license is solely in French. And many other Canadian
licenses are bilingual. The only place I have been unable to hire a
car without an international license was Japan, although I can't say
I've tried to rent in that many countries.

The fact that you can rent a car without an international driver's
permit has little to do with the legality of driving without one. You
own national driver's license is the legal license, and often that's
really all the rental company cares about. The fact that a country
requires you to provide an official translation of your license if
asked is altogether a different matter.

Italy requires all drivers whose licenses are not in the standard EU
format to carry an official translation of the license and to produce
it on demand. To satisfy this law, you can get an IDP for about 10
dollars, or you can take your license to an Italian consulate and get
a list of recognized translators, get it officially translated, and
then take it back to the consulate and have an official seal put on
it. You decide which is more trouble. (I may have some of the details
of the alternative to the IDP a bit confused, but I did look into this
at one time, and it was more or less as i've stated.)

I live in Italy and have an Italian driver's license. When I moved
here, I drove for a year with my New Jersey license and an IDP. When
the IDP expired, I hadn't got my Italian license yet, but my NJ
license still had a few months to go. I asked the local authorities if
I could drive with the NJ license and the expired IDP, which still was
a translation of the license as far I could see. The answer was a
definite "no". Given that routine document checks do occur with a
certain frequency in Italy, I refrained from further driving until I
had my Italian license. I have heard numerous people say that rental
companies haven't asked them to produce an IDP, but that doesn't mean
that they wouldn't have had trouble if stopped. I have also heard of
some people who were stopped without an IDP and were not fined. I can
only say that the policeman was feeling friendly that day.



Interestingly, when I was a diplomat in France many years ago, I was
discouraged by my Embassy's administrative officer from applying for a
French license on the basis that my home license (in English, then)
was quite enough. I asked for one anyway, and paid for and got it,
which I still have. I would like to exchange it for a UK license (I
live there now), but I have the feeling that they will be able to
verify that I never took a French (and hence EU) road test. How that
fits in with the ECJ cases remains to be seen: there are several
interesting cases that suggest one may not consider an EU/EEA/Swiss
citizen "unlicensed" simply because s/he did not exchange his/her
licence from another member state for one in the state of current
residence:

Krueger, Case C-253/01
http://tinyurl.com/32eo9

Skanavi and Chryssanthakopoulos, Case C-193/94
http://tinyurl.com/3eovc

Awoyemi, Case C-230/97 (non-EU citizen not protected by above rule)
http://tinyurl.com/yqvl5

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On 24 Jul 2004 06:33:55 -0700, (Tam) wrote:

Well, my Québec license is solely in French. And many other Canadian
licenses are bilingual. The only place I have been unable to hire a
car without an international license was Japan, although I can't say
I've tried to rent in that many countries.

The fact that you can rent a car without an international driver's
permit has little to do with the legality of driving without one. You
own national driver's license is the legal license, and often that's
really all the rental company cares about. The fact that a country
requires you to provide an official translation of your license if
asked is altogether a different matter.

Italy requires all drivers whose licenses are not in the standard EU
format to carry an official translation of the license and to produce
it on demand. To satisfy this law, you can get an IDP for about 10
dollars, or you can take your license to an Italian consulate and get
a list of recognized translators, get it officially translated, and
then take it back to the consulate and have an official seal put on
it. You decide which is more trouble. (I may have some of the details
of the alternative to the IDP a bit confused, but I did look into this
at one time, and it was more or less as i've stated.)

I live in Italy and have an Italian driver's license. When I moved
here, I drove for a year with my New Jersey license and an IDP. When
the IDP expired, I hadn't got my Italian license yet, but my NJ
license still had a few months to go. I asked the local authorities if
I could drive with the NJ license and the expired IDP, which still was
a translation of the license as far I could see. The answer was a
definite "no". Given that routine document checks do occur with a
certain frequency in Italy, I refrained from further driving until I
had my Italian license. I have heard numerous people say that rental
companies haven't asked them to produce an IDP, but that doesn't mean
that they wouldn't have had trouble if stopped. I have also heard of
some people who were stopped without an IDP and were not fined. I can
only say that the policeman was feeling friendly that day.



Interestingly, when I was a diplomat in France many years ago, I was
discouraged by my Embassy's administrative officer from applying for a
French license on the basis that my home license (in English, then)
was quite enough. I asked for one anyway, and paid for and got it,
which I still have. I would like to exchange it for a UK license (I
live there now), but I have the feeling that they will be able to
verify that I never took a French (and hence EU) road test. How that
fits in with the ECJ cases remains to be seen: there are several
interesting cases that suggest one may not consider an EU/EEA/Swiss
citizen "unlicensed" simply because s/he did not exchange his/her
licence from another member state for one in the state of current
residence:

Krueger, Case C-253/01
http://tinyurl.com/32eo9

Skanavi and Chryssanthakopoulos, Case C-193/94
http://tinyurl.com/3eovc

Awoyemi, Case C-230/97 (non-EU citizen not protected by above rule)
http://tinyurl.com/yqvl5

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On 25 Jul 2004 00:33:34 -0700, (Sufaud) wrote:

But my original point was that a IDL is senseless if one's home
license is anyway in the language of the country you'd be likely to
drive in.

Since the IDL is a translation, that's certainly true.

And EU rights supersede local law:

I'm willing to believe this is true also, but the original poster
wasn't European.

Like my old French one, I
think my wife's Geneva license is in French only; the Italians could
scarcely demand that she have an Italian translation of it, or they'd
be setting up a licence check at the exit of the Alpine tunnel and
reaping a vast fortune in fines.

That certainly doesn't follow from what you've said. They don't ask to
see an IDL unless they have some other reason to ask to see your
license.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On 25 Jul 2004 00:33:34 -0700, (Sufaud) wrote:

But my original point was that a IDL is senseless if one's home
license is anyway in the language of the country you'd be likely to
drive in.

Since the IDL is a translation, that's certainly true.

And EU rights supersede local law:

I'm willing to believe this is true also, but the original poster
wasn't European.

Like my old French one, I
think my wife's Geneva license is in French only; the Italians could
scarcely demand that she have an Italian translation of it, or they'd
be setting up a licence check at the exit of the Alpine tunnel and
reaping a vast fortune in fines.

That certainly doesn't follow from what you've said. They don't ask to
see an IDL unless they have some other reason to ask to see your
license.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On 25 Jul 2004 00:33:34 -0700, (Sufaud) wrote:

But my original point was that a IDL is senseless if one's home
license is anyway in the language of the country you'd be likely to
drive in.

Since the IDL is a translation, that's certainly true.

And EU rights supersede local law:

I'm willing to believe this is true also, but the original poster
wasn't European.

Like my old French one, I
think my wife's Geneva license is in French only; the Italians could
scarcely demand that she have an Italian translation of it, or they'd
be setting up a licence check at the exit of the Alpine tunnel and
reaping a vast fortune in fines.

That certainly doesn't follow from what you've said. They don't ask to
see an IDL unless they have some other reason to ask to see your
license.

-----------
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On 27 Jul 2004 09:47:16 -0700, Sufaud wrote:

It just occurred to me that German is a national, or rather a
regional, language of Italy, so fie on them anyway for their
hypocrisy:

What hypocrisy?

--
Tim C.

On 25 Jul 2004 00:33:34 -0700, Sufaud wrote:

Well, my French license dates from 1980.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/...faq/002_en.htm

Mutual recognition allows for and requires old licences to be recognised.
--
Tim C.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 02:15:28 GMT, devil wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:00:13 -0700, MattB wrote:

Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
have an International Drivers License?
Thanks!

No.

.... unless you get stopped and the copper's having a bad hair day.
It *is* a requirement.
--
Tim C.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:00:13 -0700, MattB wrote:

Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
have an International Drivers License?
Thanks!

We Americans don't realize how easy we have it regarding obtaining an IDL. I
recently came across a blow-by-blow description of how a German was going
about getting an IDL, which he needed for the Far East. It was taking 3
trips to various official places and EUR50 or 70 or so. The first step was
getting his German license converted from an old style to a new style [say
euros], and then ... and then ..., and more euros each place.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 19:00:13 -0700, MattB wrote:

Would it be advantageous for an American wanting to drive in France to
have an International Drivers License?
Thanks!

We Americans don't realize how easy we have it regarding obtaining an IDL. I
recently came across a blow-by-blow description of how a German was going
about getting an IDL, which he needed for the Far East. It was taking 3
trips to various official places and EUR50 or 70 or so. The first step was
getting his German license converted from an old style to a new style [say
euros], and then ... and then ..., and more euros each place.