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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal



 
 
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  #111  
Old January 25th, 2004, 12:53 AM
Tchiowa
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Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

devil wrote in message ...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:44:03 -0800, Tchiowa wrote:

Do you need to understand Bernoulli's Principle to know that
flying is safe? Or which airline to choose?


No, and anyway it's a gross oversimplification.\


I disagree. Planes will fly whether or not you know the scientific
principle behind it. You can see for yourself by studying statistics
and news that planes are safe. Same principle for Capitalism. You
don't need to know who said what in 1582 about Capitalism. You can see
for yourself in the real world that it works.

But spelling his name right might help. :-)


I did. :-) Lucky for me. Haven't spelled it since college and that was
a looooong time ago.

http://www.mste.uiuc.edu/davea/aviat...Principle.html

Not surprising. In the meantime, try looking at what Socialism did to
a billion Chinese and a quarter of a billion Russians and maybe you'll
begin to understand. The maybe you can reply to yourself.


Actually, in both cases, one might build a case to the effect that it
served them quite well.


This should be interesting.

Particularly for China, the peasant leader Mao and his peasant rebellion
(in the best Chinese tradition BTW) certainly helped rebuild a country
that had been mired in a hopeless civil war, torn between small time
warlords and their presonal interests. Make no mistake, without Mao,
China would be much much worse today. Not htat this has much to do with
socialism, except to the effect that they used the label.


Actually if you compare where China is with where Taiwan is the
primary difference is the economic system. No question that Taiwanese
people live better than mainland Chinese, on the whole.

You say China progressed under Mao and Socialism. Ending the wars and
having relative peace certainly helped. But hundreds of millions of
people ended up living in poverty. Ask yourself how much better they
would be now if Mao hadn't imposed Socialism. To help answer that,
look at the areas in China where limited Capitalism is now being
permitted. People can own their own land and businesses and benefit
directly from the profits. China is booming and poverty is being
reduced.

Poverty that was largely caused (or kept in place) by Socialism.

Russia is more controversial. Still, before 1917, Russia was a mediaval
backwater.


No more than the rest of Europe, particularly Eastern Europe.

And the fall of the soviet regime was precipitated by the cold
war and the incapacity of the relatively poor country that Russia was (and
always had been) to compete on military spending.


So why was Russia so poor after nearly a century of a Socialist
economy? Answer: nearly a century of a Socialist economy.

Futhermore, it's not that now that Russia is no longer socialist it is now
significantly better.


But it is. Have you been there? I have. Also some of the other 'stans
and former SSRs (like Kazakhstan, Latvia). Things have improved
dramatically. Go to Moscow. The lines of babushkas wrapped around city
blocks waiting to buy bread that most likely won't be there are mostly
gone. (Now there are lines around the block trying to get in to the
McDonald's.)

Most problems are structural and cultural. Largely
orthogonal to the ideology of the day.


It will take time to change the mindset of people to understand that
the promises of Capitalism and Free Enterprise work. The current older
generation may already be lost. Millions of people whose lives were
permanently damaged by Socialism.

The younger generation doesn't have the same fatalistic mindset. They
will succeed. Correct: *are succeeding*.
  #112  
Old January 25th, 2004, 01:07 AM
Tchiowa
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Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

"DN" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

SNIP


Your attempt at debating centuries old writings is nothing more than
an attempt to divert attention away from the real world.


This really is the last time "Tchiowa", that reply to you on this issue.


Not surprising. In the meantime, try looking at what Socialism did to
a billion Chinese and a quarter of a billion Russians and maybe you'll
begin to understand. The maybe you can reply to yourself.


What am I to do with you "Tchiowa" ?


Try listening instead of desperately clinging to an out-dated
philosophy that most of the rest of the world has assigned to the dust
bin of history.

The work of the Worlds Philosophers is a waste of time then, eh?


For the most part, yes. If you want to study theory while the rest of
us live in the real world, go ahead.

We , ooops, you, can't benefit from their work is what you are really saying,
although you may not be conscious of this.


Which "work" is that?

Besides, benefitting from "work" is a very Capitalistic concept.

So, if it is convenient to quote the billions of Chinese and Russians who
suffered, why is it not convenient to examine the untold billions who have
died before them, world wide, and try and understand why? You see, all you
are doing is cutting the cake of history, into thin slices, thence claim to
understand the 'isms. ALL economic and political systems have made
contributions to the billions of people you refer too.


The world has moved on. Outdated philosophies and economic systems
have been discarded. Is it worthwhile to study those and to see the
mistakes? Yes. So why don't you go study all the mistakes of Socialism
and the suffering it has created and then get back to us once your
eyes are open.

You see "Tchiowa", I attempted and failed, to draw you out from your glib
political slogans and the "real world" you so fondly embrace, to a much
larger canvas, which remains unfinished yet and which, if we are not
careful, be finished with more blood on the canvas.


No, you attempted to obfuscate. The proof of the failures of Socialism
are right in front of all of us for everyone to see. So you say "Never
mind the hundreds of millions of people living in poverty RIGHT NOW
TODAY as a direct result of Socialism, let's look at what Igor Van
Arrdvdork wrote in 1437".

Why are you so afraid of the real world?

If you'd like, I can quote you all kinds of things that were theorized
about the luminiferous ether. For centuries. But I'd rather ignore
that because the theory was proven false. Real world proof did it in.

But you'd rather cite alchemists from the Middle Ages and ignore the
Michelson-Morely experiments. Too "real world" for you.

I think about the future. I live in the present.


From what you've posted, you live in the 19th century.

I have a great deal of respect for what recorded history has taught us.


No you don't. You have a great deal of respect for what philosopher's
from hundreds of years ago said. You don't want to look at "recorded
history". Remember that "recorded history" started about the time you
started reading this sentence. "Recorded history" includes the 20th
and 21st centuries. And in those centuries a stake was driven in the
heart of Socialism. The fact that 16th century philosophers loved it
is no more important than the fact that they embraced the theory of
heliocentrism.

It's a beautiful world out there. A lot to learn. Go embrace some of
it.
  #113  
Old January 25th, 2004, 04:12 AM
Tosser
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Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal


"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

I did. :-) Lucky for me. Haven't spelled it since college and that was
a looooong time ago.



Tch, tch, Iowa .... so looooong ago and you've learned nothing.



  #114  
Old January 26th, 2004, 02:36 PM
DALing
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Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

laughing in Thai?? (5 - in Thai is "ha")

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
"Matt" wrote in message

...
Oh go and jump idiot


Well, that response tells us a lot about the intelligence level of
those supporting Socialism, doesn't it?

5555555555555


  #115  
Old January 27th, 2004, 01:28 AM
Tchiowa
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Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

"Freda" wrote in message ...
And the way you have been carrying on tells everyone
to kill file you name or put up with the biggest load of
dribble I have heard in quite a while and that really says it.
Why dont you go to some more appropriate group if you
want to carry on with that thread an dyou load of crap.


I neither created this thread nor put it in this group. If you don't
like learning about these things, you have my full permission not to
read the thread.

Freda

--
Please reply to the list as my email address is a fake
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
"Matt" wrote in message

...
Oh go and jump idiot


Well, that response tells us a lot about the intelligence level of
those supporting Socialism, doesn't it?

5555555555555

  #116  
Old January 27th, 2004, 02:12 PM
WhiteShiva
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Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

I guess it was just Freda's way to say that you have nothing to teach, and
that the only thing you can offer us, that we really desire, is your
absence. :-)

Trond

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
"Freda" wrote in message

...
And the way you have been carrying on tells everyone
to kill file you name or put up with the biggest load of
dribble I have heard in quite a while and that really says it.
Why dont you go to some more appropriate group if you
want to carry on with that thread an dyou load of crap.


I neither created this thread nor put it in this group. If you don't
like learning about these things, you have my full permission not to
read the thread.

Freda

--
Please reply to the list as my email address is a fake
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
"Matt" wrote in message

...
Oh go and jump idiot

Well, that response tells us a lot about the intelligence level of
those supporting Socialism, doesn't it?

5555555555555



  #117  
Old January 28th, 2004, 12:56 AM
Tchiowa
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Posts: n/a
Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal

"WhiteShiva" wrote in message ...
I guess it was just Freda's way to say that you have nothing to teach, and
that the only thing you can offer us, that we really desire, is your
absence. :-)


Standard remark from someone who is afraid to learn.

Too bad. You've proven yourself again.


Trond

  #118  
Old January 29th, 2004, 02:03 PM
WhiteShiva
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Posts: n/a
Default How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal


"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
"WhiteShiva" wrote in message

...
I guess it was just Freda's way to say that you have nothing to teach,

and
that the only thing you can offer us, that we really desire, is your
absence. :-)


Standard remark from someone who is afraid to learn.

Too bad. You've proven yourself again.


Thank you for proving my (and Freda's) point!


 




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