Military Coup in the offing

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:23:26 +0800, alex®
wrote:



Pan wrote:
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:06:31 +0800, alex®
wrote:

But it's infuriating when you know Estrada is going to win the elections
when the opinion polls come in. Imagine how Ramos must have felt...all
his good work down the drain and Phillipines set back another decade or
two.


How do you think I felt with returns coming in for G.W. Bush, whether
based on fraud or not? But the only thing worse than letting an evil
or criminally incompetent leader win an election is to destroy the
integrity of the process, and had it been Gore and not Bush who won
through all of that crap in Florida and the Supreme Court, I would
have been just as livid. Then again, when Bush was selected by the
Supreme Court in 2000, I only thought I knew how bad he would be; in
2004, I already knew that he is way, way worse than I could have
possibly imagined. Yes, elections are deeply frustrating and
infuriating. But who is ultimately more qualified to choose their
leaders than the electorate? Democracy means "the people rule." That's
what it's all about.

Whatever faults Bush might have, I think it's grossly unfair to compare
him to that nincompoop Estrada. And another difference was that the race
between Bush and Kerry was the closest in the history

Where do you get that idea from?

presidential
elections so the agony only began after the results, unlike in the case
of Estrada where you already knew he was going to win months in advance.

If the people of the Philippines are electing a nincompoop, the
majority who elect him deserve the foreseeable consequences. That's
democracy.

I mostly agree with the things you say about democracy, but frustrating
and infuriating pretty much sums up what I think about democracy when it
comes to SE Asia.

That's no different from the experience of the opposition in every
country with an elective system of government. Get used to it.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@..
wrote:

Pan wrote:
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...."
wrote:

[snip]
Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand
remain peaceful
[snip]

Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of
"peace" to break out all over!


Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful.

You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all
the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's
"peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against
Thais or Thailand.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

Estrada was less a dishonest President than the incumbent.

"Pan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:23:26 +0800, alex®
wrote:



Pan wrote:
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 18:06:31 +0800, alex®
wrote:

But it's infuriating when you know Estrada is going to win the
elections
when the opinion polls come in. Imagine how Ramos must have felt...all
his good work down the drain and Phillipines set back another decade or
two.


How do you think I felt with returns coming in for G.W. Bush, whether
based on fraud or not? But the only thing worse than letting an evil
or criminally incompetent leader win an election is to destroy the
integrity of the process, and had it been Gore and not Bush who won
through all of that crap in Florida and the Supreme Court, I would
have been just as livid. Then again, when Bush was selected by the
Supreme Court in 2000, I only thought I knew how bad he would be; in
2004, I already knew that he is way, way worse than I could have
possibly imagined. Yes, elections are deeply frustrating and
infuriating. But who is ultimately more qualified to choose their
leaders than the electorate? Democracy means "the people rule." That's
what it's all about.

Whatever faults Bush might have, I think it's grossly unfair to compare
him to that nincompoop Estrada. And another difference was that the race
between Bush and Kerry was the closest in the history

Where do you get that idea from?

presidential
elections so the agony only began after the results, unlike in the case
of Estrada where you already knew he was going to win months in advance.

If the people of the Philippines are electing a nincompoop, the
majority who elect him deserve the foreseeable consequences. That's
democracy.

I mostly agree with the things you say about democracy, but frustrating
and infuriating pretty much sums up what I think about democracy when it
comes to SE Asia.

That's no different from the experience of the opposition in every
country with an elective system of government. Get used to it.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the
NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

"Tchiowa" kirjoitti
glegroups.com...


Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated
and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you
self-proclaimed elites are. Are they?

Now here's a little fact you won't like. The areas of the country where
people have more exposure to foreigners are Southern California, Texas
and Florida. Ever hear of Mexico?

If I recall it right, Tsoots Dabljuu secured the post by his younger brother
Jeb who was/is the senator of Florida and the ballot boxes were a bit
tampered in favour of Tsoots. Anyways, few people mind who is the president
of the USA. Whoever he (or perhaps even "she" sometime in future) is, he
fills only the boots of an errand boy.

On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...." wrote:

So you are going to join that Sondhi Limthongkul this Sunday to protest
against Thaksin.

Sorry - this Sunday I was watching the snow fall in Antwerp.

Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand
remain peaceful and make a little progress.

Possibly - maybe the Al Qaida is a good example. On the other hand as an
investor in the country I'm very keen on it remaining peaceful & making a lot
of progress. So far I haven't seen any violence in the demonstrations.

Dave

On 6 Mar 2006 04:35:30 -0800, "Tchiowa" wrote:

Note the claim that those who support Bush are somehow less educated
and less "cosmopolitan". They just aren't quite as good as you
self-proclaimed elites are. Are they?

I didn't make up the voting pattern, nor the analysis. I'm just pointing out
the similarities. Seems you voted for Bush? :-)

I suggest you go back to looking for that building in Bangkok that says
Unocal on the front door. Maybe it's in the magic wardrobe upstairs.

I suggest you put your money where your mouth is. I have the form on my desk
waiting for you. Until then, your yapping doesn't interest me at all.

Dave

Pan wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@..
wrote:

Pan wrote:
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...."
wrote:

[snip]
Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand
remain peaceful
[snip]

Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of
"peace" to break out all over!

Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful.

You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all
the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's
"peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against
Thais or Thailand.


So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to
people like you.

.....lobert.... wrote:
Pan wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@..
wrote:

Pan wrote:
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...."
wrote:

[snip]
Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand
remain peaceful
[snip]

Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of
"peace" to break out all over!

Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful.

You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all
the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's
"peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against
Thais or Thailand.


So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to
people like you.

But in this thread he was right - you did the idiotic accusations - and
still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in
SCT!

Chabon 19 wrote:
....lobert.... wrote:
Pan wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:18:32 +0800, "....lobert...." lobert@..
wrote:

Pan wrote:
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 17:37:43 +0800, "....lobert...."
wrote:

[snip]
Some outsiders just cannot see countries like Thailand
remain peaceful
[snip]

Peaceful? Is that what Thailand is? I don't think I want that kind of
"peace" to break out all over!

Of course you don't want Thailand to be peaceful.
You're a ****ing idiot. Over 1,000 dead in Southern Thailand, plus all
the alleged drug dealers summarily shot dead without trial. That's
"peace"? **** you for your idiotic accusations. I have nothing against
Thais or Thailand.

So you are resort to vulgar language and I am not going to reply to
people like you.

But in this thread he was right - you did the idiotic accusations - and
still do! So there is no loss to anyone if you don't post anymore in
SCT!

While thousands protest in Bangkok, rural residents have no complaints

BAAN SUKSOMBOON (Thailand) — From her wooden stilt house surrounded by
rice padi fields, Ms Sudjai Srimongkol stared down at her grunting
piglets and chirping chicks on Sunday, shrugging off a question about
the tens of thousands of anti-government demonstrators that had gathered
a six-hour drive away in Bangkok.
..
"I've never heard anyone here complain about Thaksin," Mr Sudjai said,
referring to embattled Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra. "Everyone
says he has helped them a lot."
..
Mr Thaksin faced on Sunday what his opponents said would be a decisive
moment in their campaign to oust him. According to official estimates,
between 50,000 and 100,000 protesters marched through the capital,
vowing they would not go home until the premier resigned.
..
But in rural areas, where about two-thirds of Thailand's 63 million
people live, Mr Thaksin's popularity remains untarnished. Here in the
country's vast and populous rice-farming heartland, it approaches
adoration. Farmers and owners of small businesses say their lives have
been transformed and that their incomes have doubled during Mr Thaksin's
five years in power.
..
"Even if someone paid me I wouldn't go to an anti-Thaksin
demonstration," said Mr Suwat Laocharuen, the village chief of Baan
Nonsawan, a short drive from Ms Sudjai's stilt house. "We just love him."
..
Both Mr Thaksin and his opponents expect the premier's party to win the
most seats in the snap poll scheduled for April 2. But in a sign of the
deepening split between Bangkok and the provinces, the opposition —
which draws much of its support from Bangkok and parts of southern
Thailand — has decided to boycott the election.
..
Mr Thaksin's opponents have accused him of corruption and abuse of
power, charging that he has stripped key institutions of their
independence — the courts, the press, the anti-corruption authorities —
and that he uses his office to further his business interests.
..
The tax-free sale of his family communications firm to Singapore's
investment company, Temasek, for US$1.9 billion ($3.1 billion) in
January set off the latest round of protests.
..
But the argument that Mr Thaksin must therefore resign does not wash
with Mr Suwat, the village chief. "It's not fair that a leader gets
two-thirds of the vote and then is brought down by street
demonstrations," he said.
..
In the February election last year, Mr Thaksin won 61 per cent of the
vote, a landslide by Thai standards. In a country with a long history of
messy coalitions, his Thai Rak Thai party was the first to win an
absolute majority. In many rural areas, his party swept all of the seats.
..
Mr Thaksin cemented the loyalty of rural Thais with a three-year
moratorium on their debts and a government programme that offered
US$26,000 to every village in Thailand, from which residents could
borrow for small business ventures.
..
Partly as a result, rural incomes increased 29 per cent in 2001, the
first year Mr Thaksin was in power, 23 per cent the next year, and by
double digits each year since. Last year, the average rural income
reached US$821, according to the Rural Development Information Center of
the Interior Ministry.
..
Baan Suksomboon villagers said they would be bitter if Mr Thaksin is
removed from power.
..
"Of course I will be angry," said Mr Muthita Shinpromma, who works at a
factory stitching Nike sweatpants for US$3.70 a day. "Thaksin is helping
people at the grassroots."
..
Mr Thaksin also began a health scheme allowing Thais to obtain any
medical treatment for just 77 American cents per visit.
..
When asked why he supported Mr Thaksin, Mr Prachan Gaewchamlong lifted
his shirt, revealing many scars. A serious motorcycle accident last year
left him with a broken jaw, ribs, and hip. His total medical bill, he
said: 77 American cents.
..
Mr Prachan, a rice farmer, said he was convinced that the people
demonstrating against Mr Thaksin were being paid to show up. The
passions of the protesting university students, professors, and
professionals suggest otherwise, but his suspicion suggests how
polarised Thai society is today. — THE NEW YORK TIMES

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:23:55 +0800, alex®
wrote:



Pan wrote:


Whatever faults Bush might have, I think it's grossly unfair to compare
him to that nincompoop Estrada. And another difference was that the race
between Bush and Kerry was the closest in the history


Where do you get that idea from?


Well for one, the US is still a superpower and life is still good in the
ol US of A.
[snip]

Where do you get the idea that the race between Bush and Kerry was the
closest in history?

presidential
elections so the agony only began after the results, unlike in the case
of Estrada where you already knew he was going to win months in advance.


If the people of the Philippines are electing a nincompoop, the
majority who elect him deserve the foreseeable consequences. That's
democracy.


That just doesn't cut it with me. I could similarly say that if the
people of a country choose to let a bad dictator lord it over them, then
they deserve the circumstances they find themselves in.

Well, what's your solution? Who would you have choosing the
leadership, if not the people?

I mostly agree with the things you say about democracy, but frustrating
and infuriating pretty much sums up what I think about democracy when it
comes to SE Asia.


That's no different from the experience of the opposition in every
country with an elective system of government. Get used to it.

Well I don't have much of a choice, do I?

You don't, I don't, none of us do. Except for evildoers who would
presume to wrest power illegally.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the NOTRASH. Please do not email me something which you also posted.