A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travel Regions » Asia
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old October 26th, 2003, 02:07 PM
AsiaWanderer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding

I`ve taken 2 r-t flights to Thailand from the US, one for 8 months and
one for 4, without any mention of a visa requirement by the US travel
agents or the airlines on which I flew (China Airways and EVA), so I
don`t know why this is such an issue in Germany. Thailand has the same
visa rules for both the US and Germany, I believe, so why don`t the US
travel agents mention this?

Also, I`ve never been turned back by the Thais at the BKK airport for
lack of visa or onward ticket, or even had the issue mentioned by Thai
immigration. I simply get the 30 day entry permit, so what`s said and
what`s done is very contradictory.

I`ll probably end up shelling out 25 USD for the 2 month Thai visa,
and hope that will be enough (though obviously it won`t cover a 6
month visit. I don`t think I can even get a 6 month visa). As I said,
I`ll only be spending a month in Thailand anyway. The rest will be
elsewhere. It still seems stupid.


"Sjoerd" wrote in message ...
"Thomas F. Unke" schreef in bericht
...
(AsiaWanderer) writes:

hi all,

I`ll be travelling from Berlin to Bangkok for 6 months and
then returning to Berlin. The travel agent here says that
Lufthansa and other local airlines require a visa covering the
length of your stay, or they won`t let you board.
The Berlin Thai embassy will only give me a 2 month visa,
so, what to do?


I have the same experience with several airlines in Germany.

I normally flew to Thailand without a visa at all, having my return
flight several months later.

At checkin, they ask for a visa. I thell them that I don't need a visa
for a stay of 30 days. They complain that my return flight is later. I
tell them that I travel to neighbouring countries, returning to
Thailand at the end of the tour. They make a lot of noise, check their
computer about Thai visa regulations. I show them my credit cards and
other funds.

Finally they let me fly. But it was a hassle. And I'm not sure about
the future. This happened with LH, BA, KLM.

In case you have a visa, the situation may be better. Thailand would
not refuse you with a visa, even if your return flight is after the
visa has expired.

Stupid regulations. The airlines now start to do some preemptive visa
check, just like a passport officer. But these are just ground
stewardesses without any knowledge.


Nothing stupid.

Here are the official rules from Thai Immigration:

Passport required (recommended to be valid 6 months after
period of stay. However, Thai immigration will accept passports
which are only valid for period of intended stay).

Visa not required for a max. stay up to 30 days provided
holding confirmed return/onward ticket. Extension up to 10 days

possible. Fee THB 500.- (1 photo required).

If holding APEC Business Travel Card together with passport:
visa not required.

Entry may be refused if of "hippy" appearance.

Airline staff may travel on standby ticket together with an
airline-identity card.

Visitor must hold all documents for next destination.

If being over 12 years of age visitor must also hold
sufficient funds (e.g. letter of credit, vouchers, MCOs
or well-known credit cards) to cover period of stay (not
applicable if holding re-entry visa).

Non-compliance with the visa regulations will result in:

- refusal and immediate deportation of passenger;
- fines for the airline of THB 20,000,-;
- overstay fine for passenger of THB 200,- per day.


Timaticweb Version 1.3
25 October 2003

  #12  
Old October 26th, 2003, 02:53 PM
Sjoerd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding


"AsiaWanderer" schreef in bericht
om...
I`ve taken 2 r-t flights to Thailand from the US, one for 8 months and
one for 4, without any mention of a visa requirement by the US travel
agents or the airlines on which I flew (China Airways and EVA), so I
don`t know why this is such an issue in Germany. Thailand has the same
visa rules for both the US and Germany, I believe, so why don`t the US
travel agents mention this?

Also, I`ve never been turned back by the Thais at the BKK airport for
lack of visa or onward ticket, or even had the issue mentioned by Thai
immigration. I simply get the 30 day entry permit, so what`s said and
what`s done is very contradictory.

I`ll probably end up shelling out 25 USD for the 2 month Thai visa,
and hope that will be enough (though obviously it won`t cover a 6
month visit. I don`t think I can even get a 6 month visa). As I said,
I`ll only be spending a month in Thailand anyway. The rest will be
elsewhere. It still seems stupid.


It is not stupid at all.

READ THE RULES:

"Visa not required for a max. stay up to 30 days provided
holding confirmed return/onward ticket."

So just buy a refundable ticket out of Thailand and you are all set. And
you'll save USD 25.

The fact that China Airlines and EVA didn't enforce the rule doesn't mean
the rule didn't exist at that time. You were just lucky that they let you on
the plane. Also, recently Thai immigration has become much stricter
(terrorism scare) and this past August for the first time in over 15 years
of regular travel to Thailand they actually asked me some questions at Thai
immigration.

Sjoerd




  #13  
Old October 26th, 2003, 03:30 PM
Chris Blunt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:25:46 +0100, "Sjoerd"
wrote:


"Kris" schreef in bericht
.. .

Here are the official rules from Thai Immigration:


Where did you get these from?


Via the www.emirates.com website. Click on traveller information, then
visa/health information.


Although that's only the airlines interpretation of the rules rather
than anything official, there's some useful information in there. I've
never seen the "no hippies" rule on any official list of requirement
from Thai immigration.

I'm going to look into applying for an APEC Business Travel Card as I
believe I would qualify for one. That would be a neat way around the
onward/return ticket requirement.

  #14  
Old October 26th, 2003, 04:36 PM
Kris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding


So just buy a refundable ticket out of Thailand and you are all set. And
you'll save USD 25.


Do you have experience doing this? How much hassle is it to actually
refund the ticket and how much do you lose?

I go in and out of Thailand fairly often, always without onward
tickets. So far never had any trouble, but if I can avoid the
pre-immigration/boarding stress doing something simple like the
refundable thing business, I'd do it.


Kris

  #15  
Old October 26th, 2003, 09:23 PM
Philip Allum
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding

In message , Thomas F. Unke
writes
"Sjoerd" writes:



Nothing stupid.

Here are the official rules from Thai Immigration:


Yep. And the Thai officer is making a decision if he let me in or
not. It is not the duty of a stewardess to check this. Especially when
I tell her that I'm fully responsible for my flight and that I will
pay for my return flight in case I'm refused entry.


You're missing the point. The airline can be fined for bringing you
into the country without valid papers.. The stewardess is protecting
the airline - nothing to do with responsibility for you.

The other poster had an even more extreme example: He arrives with a 2
months visa in BKK, but his return flight is 6 months later. The
airlines threaten not to transport him. This is not the responsibility
of the airline to control my onward travel.


--
Philip Allum
  #16  
Old October 26th, 2003, 11:36 PM
Sjoerd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding


"Thomas F. Unke" schreef in bericht
...
"Sjoerd" writes:

Yep. And the Thai officer is making a decision if he let me in or
not. It is not the duty of a stewardess to check this.


It is when the airline can be fined THB 20,000.


No. The airline is no substitute for a passport control.


Actually they are, in a way.

Stewardesses
have no competency to know the immigration rules of all countries in
the world.


That's why they have access to information systems with all the immigration
rules of all the countries in the world.


They can be fined only if I am an illegal immigrant, without funds. If
I can pay my onward/return flight, they are not fined.


You are totally clueless. Airlines are fined every day at various countries
all over the world because they are transporting passengers that don't have
the proper immigration paperwork.


You are under no obligation to fly with any airline, but when you do,

you
have to follow their rules. If you don't want to, you can also take the

bus.

No. I pay them for travel, they do not have to put their nose into my
private affairs. After they issue a ticket to me, they have to
transport me. Otherwise, they should not issue a ticket.


Nonsense. Next thing you say is that they should transport you if you don't
have a valid passport.

Admit it. You have no idea about the rules and regulations of international
air travel.

Sjoerd


  #17  
Old October 27th, 2003, 06:50 AM
Chris Blunt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:42:21 GMT, Thomas F. Unke
wrote:

"Sjoerd" writes:


No. The airline is no substitute for a passport control.


Actually they are, in a way.


Nonsense. You don't understand the difference between a government
officer and some private business.

That's why they have access to information systems with all the
immigration rules of all the countries in the world.


They don't have the complete rules. These are much too complicate to
be included in airline reservation systems. Governement officers get a
regular training on these, just for their own country.

You are totally clueless. Airlines are fined every day at various
countries


Let's see how much knowledge you have. We discuss the Thai
immigration rules here.

Now give us the facts:

How many tourists have been refused entry because of no onward
booking?

How much did airlines have to pay because of that?

How many airlines were fined because they transported someone who
looked like a "hippy"?

I'm rather interested how much clue you have. Now it's your turn. And
I'm not interested in some theories, but in facts.


Admit it. You have no idea about the rules and regulations of
international air travel.


And you have no idea of the difference of some bureaucratic rules
which nobody observes, even the Thai officers do not, and stubborn
checkin personel who believes to be god because they have a printed
rule in their computer.

And yes, I talk form experience, not from some gossip. These airlines
actually just make noise, hassle the customers and finally let you fly
anyway. This is what annoys me.


Thomas, I think Sjoerd is right on this one. Most countries require
airlines flying into them to ensure that passengers meet their entry
requirements. That means checking that they hold any necessary visas,
that their passports have the required amount of time remaining, and
they hold any onward or return tickets that may be needed. If, on
arrival, a passenger is denied entry to the country, the airline is
required to return them to their point of origin at their expense and
is subject to a heavy fine.

  #18  
Old October 27th, 2003, 07:06 AM
Sjoerd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding


"Thomas F. Unke" schreef in bericht
...
"Sjoerd" writes:


No. The airline is no substitute for a passport control.


Actually they are, in a way.


Nonsense. You don't understand the difference between a government
officer and some private business.

That's why they have access to information systems with all the
immigration rules of all the countries in the world.


They don't have the complete rules. These are much too complicate to
be included in airline reservation systems. Governement officers get a
regular training on these, just for their own country.

You are totally clueless. Airlines are fined every day at various
countries


Let's see how much knowledge you have. We discuss the Thai
immigration rules here.

Now give us the facts:

How many tourists have been refused entry because of no onward
booking?

How much did airlines have to pay because of that?

How many airlines were fined because they transported someone who
looked like a "hippy"?

I'm rather interested how much clue you have. Now it's your turn. And
I'm not interested in some theories, but in facts.


Admit it. You have no idea about the rules and regulations of
international air travel.


And you have no idea of the difference of some bureaucratic rules
which nobody observes, even the Thai officers do not, and stubborn
checkin personel who believes to be god because they have a printed
rule in their computer.

And yes, I talk form experience, not from some gossip. These airlines
actually just make noise, hassle the customers and finally let you fly
anyway. This is what annoys me.


Whatever. Again, you are totally ignorant about international travel.
Believe whatever you want to be believe. Du hast recht und ich meine Ruhe.

Sjoerd


  #19  
Old October 27th, 2003, 11:21 AM
Spehro Pefhany
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:23:03 +0000, the renowned Philip Allum
wrote:

In message , Thomas F. Unke
writes
"Sjoerd" writes:



Nothing stupid.

Here are the official rules from Thai Immigration:


Yep. And the Thai officer is making a decision if he let me in or
not. It is not the duty of a stewardess to check this. Especially when
I tell her that I'm fully responsible for my flight and that I will
pay for my return flight in case I'm refused entry.


You're missing the point. The airline can be fined for bringing you
into the country without valid papers.. The stewardess is protecting
the airline - nothing to do with responsibility for you.


Can't they also be forced to take him right back again? Meaning that
they might have to bump a legitimate passenger (and presumably
compensate them) on their next flight back.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
  #20  
Old October 27th, 2003, 11:23 AM
Chris Blunt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:03:02 GMT, Thomas F. Unke
wrote:

Chris Blunt writes:

Thomas, I think Sjoerd is right on this one. Most countries require
airlines flying into them to ensure that passengers meet their entry
requirements. That means checking that they hold any necessary
visas, that their passports have the required amount of time
remaining, and they hold any onward or return tickets that may be
needed. If, on arrival, a passenger is denied entry to the country,
the airline is required to return them to their point of origin at
their expense and is subject to a heavy fine.


Chris, I don't deny that. Airlines do have to check _obvious_ entry
requirements. This includes the need for a visa or valid passport. It
does _not_ include a complete substitute for a immigration officer in
the destination country.

The fines have the following background: In the past, people (from
some poor countries) travelled with a single ticket and without any
funds to some richer country, asking asylum and such. The destination
country then had a lot of problems handling this.

But note: What we actually talk here is the (Western) tourist who
comes for 30 days to Thailand and does not hold a visa. These people
are _not_ denied entry. If the airline has any substantial reason to
believe that this would cause a fine, they could demand an onward
booking. But the "fine" in this case just consists in theory.

The other case we talked here, from the OP, is the person who comes to
Thailand with a 2 months visa, but his return flight is 6 months
later. Again: These people are never denied entry.

Thailand is one of Asia major transportation hubs. It is completely
normal that people arrive there, stay a few days, travel to
neighbouring countries. Thailand would get a very bad reputation if
they would start to really enforce the rules of onward booking or
"hippy look".

And let's face it: Most airlines in the world, especially Asian
airlines, do not hassle people in such a unreasonable way. It is a few
European airlines, namely checkin personel of Lufthansa, who recently
started to try to enforce unreasonable rules. They are a minority
here.

BTW: The deal with the airline, by buying a ticket, includes the duty
for transportation and the duty of the passenger not to cause harm to
the airline. In the unprobable case that I'm refused entry and that
the airline must pay some fines, they could sue me and demand the
money back.

So why all this inconvenience? Because some airlines have lost the
idea of delivering good service and us being customers.


The 30-day permission to enter is granted on the condition that the
passenger is holding an onward or return confirmed ticket for not more
than the 30-day period. If they don't meet that requirement then
technically they are not entitled to enter the country. Its true that
the immigration authorities seldom check, but that's probably because
they believe the airline will have done that for them at check-in.

I think the rule is kind of stupid because, as you say, many
travellers use Thailand as a base to travel around Asia, but that's
the way the law is in Thailand. If the airline allows a passenger on
board that they know does not meet the requirements then they too are
breaking the law and can be fined. You can't blame the airline for
trying to protect itself and not damage their relationship with the
authorities there. If anyone, I think its the Thai immigration
authorities that you should be criticising.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Airline Ticket Consolidators and Bucket Shops FAQ Edward Hasbrouck Air travel 0 April 17th, 2004 12:28 PM
Airline Ticket Consolidators and Bucket Shops FAQ Edward Hasbrouck Air travel 0 February 16th, 2004 11:03 AM
Airline Ticket Consolidators and Bucket Shops FAQ Edward Hasbrouck Air travel 0 January 16th, 2004 10:20 AM
Airline Ticket Consolidators and Bucket Shops FAQ Edward Hasbrouck Air travel 0 November 9th, 2003 10:09 AM
Airline Ticket Consolidators and Bucket Shops FAQ Edward Hasbrouck Air travel 0 October 10th, 2003 09:44 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.