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Royal Caribbean - They operate some 'infected' ships, these ships are 'risky' to many, and they're not people friendly



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 22nd, 2005, 06:49 PM
landlocked
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Royal Caribbean - They operate some 'infected' ships, these ships are 'risky' to many, and they're not people friendly

Have you had a very bad cruise experience and the cruise company
thought nothing of it? Did you ever feel Royal Caribbean was thinking,
'So what, we don't need you. We have many other people who will take
your place. You mean so little to us.'

Well, my discussion topic centers on these 4 questions:

(1) Should Royal Caribbean warn you before boarding that they had a
sickness and disease outbreak on its last sailing?

(2) Are you entitled to a full refund if you're told the ship had a
sickness and disease outbreak on its last sailing and you decline to
board?

(3) Are you entitled to a full refund if you're on an infected ship,
you're personally impacted, and you lose a substantial amount of
pleasure and ports-of-call?

(4) What responsibilities do you think the cruise line should have for
exposure, possible injury, or prolonged convalescence after the cruise
due to any of the items listed above?

These were important issues to me because I discovered Royal Caribbean
does operate 'infected' ships, their ships are 'risky' places to be -
especially for me and many older citizens, and they're not very people
friendly. Even the President of Royal Caribbean is unsympathetic and
cold-hearted.


[ Background story ]

I boarded Royal Caribbean's Voyager of the Seas with a long history of
gastrointestinal sicknesses. I have had esophagitis, acute gastric
ulcers, erosive inflammatory gastritis, and a hiatal hernia for over 40
years. The effects of my long list of medications for my stomach and
heart look like and have exactly the same reaction as a viral
infection. I didn't have a viral infection. I had stomach
poisoning. My wife dragged me to the ship's doctor - my stomach was
'crampy' and my chest hurt. She was worried. I just had a pacemaker
put in. I provided the ship's doctor with my medical history and list
of medications. I was grossly misdiagnosed by the ship's doctor, if
you call him that.

The virus wasn't present in me, but I had gone to the ship's doctor for
'relief' and he prescribed 'pain'. He isolated both me and my wife in
my cabin for 3 days at the very instant we docked for 3 consecutive
days ashore at different ports.

The ship gave us a dish of chocolates and strawberries and a small note
of apology for our trouble. Being stuck on the boat for all 9 days
ruined our good time. We were celebrating our 39th wedding anniversary
and my 65th birthday. The ship absolutely didn't resolve the situation
in a people friendly way. I was especially frustrated after shelling
out $4,200 hard-earned dollars for the cruise.


[ Was Royal Caribbean responsible? ]

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta monitors and
administers control of potential disease outbreaks aboard ships. The
CDC runs a Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP). I made a request for
information to the CDC. The CDC informed me a disease outbreak did
occur aboard the Voyager of the Seas (my ship) on three (3) cruises in
a row (in sequence) this spring (2005). Royal Caribbean and the
'Voyager of the Seas' provided the information below to the CDC's
Vessel Sanitation Program. Here are three (3) very recent outbreaks
and the 2005 cruise dates:

(1) For the cruise starting May 15 and ending May 20, there were 45
passengers and 14 crew infected. I believe this was a Bermuda sailing
from Cape Liberty NJ.

(2) For the cruise starting May 20 and ending May 29, there were 85
passengers and 14 crew infected. This was our Western Caribbean
sailing from Cape Liberty NJ.

(3) For the cruise starting May 29 and ending June 3, there were 3
passengers and 0 crew infected. I believe this was a Bermuda sailing
from Cape Liberty NJ.

Were you sick on any of these cruises, or after you got home from them?
Did you have an extreme stomach illness or bowel ailment? Did you
leave the ship throwing up?

The numbers in the three (3) listed items above are only for those
passengers who reported to the Voyager of the Seas' ship Medical
Center. I personally saw the list of the people actually isolated,
interfaced with some of them, and spoke to many others who chose not to
see the ship's doctor for fear of being similarly isolated,
rightfully or wrongfully. The population of infected passengers was
under-reported between 50 and 100 percent. Did Royal Caribbean
possibly have a financial motive for conducting 'business-as-usual' and
for being dishonest with the CDC? What conclusion would you draw from
this? If the choice to the cruise lines was to lose millions of
dollars versus possibly making hundreds of innocent people sick, what
choice do you would they have chosen if the CDC didn't intercede-
which it didn't? It doesn't take a 'rocket-scientist' to decide.

In order for the CDC VSP to devise and implement effective strategies
to prevent recurrence of similar outbreaks, the cruise line must first
be factual and straightforward about their reporting statistics. If a
serious disease outbreak is 'under-reported', effective remedies cannot
take place.

The real question is, what were the actual levels of these outbreaks?
If Royal Caribbean's medical center statistics are either 'artificial'
or have been intentionally manipulated to minimize the actual
population affected, the outbreak would not appear on the 'radar'. The
absence of a thorough inspection after three (3) successive infectious
outbreaks favors Royal Caribbean financially. Does Royal Caribbean
return your lost cruise costs? No, they haven't as far as we know.

Did the Voyager of the Seas give boarding passengers at Cape liberty NJ
a choice before sailing on three infected ships? From other postings
on Google, it appears Royal Caribbean acted more humane in calendar
2004, but not in 2005. No, boarding passengers were denied the choice
three (3) times. Where is the cruise lines responsibility? Is this
the way to intentionally run a business?

If you want to discover what ships are infected and how often, go to
this URL: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm#2005

If you want to read about how really dirty and infected your cruise
ship is, go to this URL: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/default.htm

I don't pretend to be very fragile. But I have noticed many discussion
forum postings from people concerned about their health while on the
ship. Some people have Lupus and other immunity issues. The broad
spectrum of passengers on my cruise consisted of infants through people
in their 80's. The youngest and the oldest were those most at risk.
People get sick in any environment. But the real issue is, would
people of their 'free' intentionally board a 'sick' ship any more than
they would willingly walk into a fire?

There was no 'free' will when the 'Voyager of the Seas' kept their
knowledge of the three (3) infected sailings 'under-wraps'. Passengers
had no choice! If Royal Caribbean had said before we boarded there was
an infection, we would have not boarded. With my bad heart and
previous gastrointestinal issues, I would have stopped in my tracks,
and returned home rather than board the ship and be held captive for 9
days. Royal Caribbean didn't say anything. So, not given that choice,
we would have preferred to have been allowed to leave the ship during
the cruise immediately upon the ship's doctor's wrong diagnosis,
finish our vacation at one of the ports-of-call and then flown home at
our own expense. Seems like a simple solution, but the ship refused to
even allow us to do that.

We had a miserable time, and we thought we could recover something
afterwards. Reliving the moments of our wedding anniversary and
birthday were not retrievable, but Royal Caribbean's good will was.
Maybe a voucher for another cruise would have calmed our feelings. I
think the cruise line should have done something better than offer us a
dish of candy, don't you think?

I wrote Adam M. Goldstein, President of Royal Caribbean International.
Adam Goldstein's letter to me in response stated, "I apologize that
your cruise was not at all what you had hoped for..." Now that is an
understatement! Mr. Goldstein should just advertise the Centers for
Disease Control (CDC) sanitation reports on the Royal Caribbean web
site. That should make for increased business!

Royal Caribbean is in the business to make people 'happy'. That is
their only business. When they make people 'unhappy' for whatever
reason, for every unhappy person, the negative story they tell others
propagates and they (RC) lose the potential business of 10 other
customers. I know this is true in every other business model.

Royal Caribbean, as with any person, has an implied responsibility to
right a 'wrong' in some fashion. It should have been a voucher for
another future cruise, not a dish of candy and a few hundred dollars
falsely labeled as 'resolution credit'. We got that because we stayed
in our cabin. Many people didn't. Royal Caribbean's small
insignificant gesture may have been meant to intentionally spite their
customers even more. Royal Caribbean calls this 'Risk Management'.
They prefer to take a risk because they only expect a very small number
of people who were made unhappy to carry their complaint to an end
point that will bring financial harm to Royal Caribbean. The odds are
in their favor. If you're in the 97 percent that didn't get sick,
you're happy. If you're in the 3 percent that got food poisoning or
actually got the virus, you're miserable. When your sickness is no
fault of your own in the latter situation, then you're doubly
aggravated.

Most people in this country believe they have no responsibility for
their negative actions. Big businesses like Royal Caribbean think the
same. It is time to stop this notion.

  #2  
Old June 22nd, 2005, 09:27 PM
mrtravel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

landlocked wrote:

Have you had a very bad cruise experience and the cruise company
thought nothing of it? Did you ever feel Royal Caribbean was thinking,
'So what, we don't need you. We have many other people who will take
your place. You mean so little to us.'

Well, my discussion topic centers on these 4 questions:

(1) Should Royal Caribbean warn you before boarding that they had a
sickness and disease outbreak on its last sailing?


Not really. It is easy enough to find out in other ways.
Presumably, since the previous sailing, they have taken steps to prevent
it on future sailings.


(2) Are you entitled to a full refund if you're told the ship had a
sickness and disease outbreak on its last sailing and you decline to
board?


No.

(3) Are you entitled to a full refund if you're on an infected ship,
you're personally impacted, and you lose a substantial amount of
pleasure and ports-of-call?


No.


(4) What responsibilities do you think the cruise line should have for
exposure, possible injury, or prolonged convalescence after the cruise
due to any of the items listed above?


None.

These were important issues to me because I discovered Royal Caribbean
does operate 'infected' ships, their ships are 'risky' places to be -
especially for me and many older citizens, and they're not very people
friendly. Even the President of Royal Caribbean is unsympathetic and
cold-hearted.


[ Background story ]

I boarded Royal Caribbean's Voyager of the Seas with a long history of
gastrointestinal sicknesses.


And you still chose to sail on her?


I have had esophagitis, acute gastric
ulcers, erosive inflammatory gastritis, and a hiatal hernia for over 40
years. The effects of my long list of medications for my stomach and
heart look like and have exactly the same reaction as a viral
infection. I didn't have a viral infection. I had stomach
poisoning.


How do you know what you had?

My wife dragged me to the ship's doctor - my stomach was
'crampy' and my chest hurt. She was worried. I just had a pacemaker
put in. I provided the ship's doctor with my medical history and list
of medications. I was grossly misdiagnosed by the ship's doctor, if
you call him that.


If your sympthoms are the same, how do you know the doctor wasn't
correct? Simply because you know the sympthoms are the same doesn't mean
you can't be affected by both. I am sure there is something that
distinguishes one for the other, even though they have some common
sympthoms.

The virus wasn't present in me, but I had gone to the ship's doctor for
'relief' and he prescribed 'pain'. He isolated both me and my wife in
my cabin for 3 days at the very instant we docked for 3 consecutive
days ashore at different ports.


How do you know the virus wasn't present?

There was no 'free' will when the 'Voyager of the Seas' kept their
knowledge of the three (3) infected sailings 'under-wraps'.


Do you feel other Cruise Lines publish this information in press
release? 3 people reported being sick on the third cruise you referred
to. 3 people.... 3 people... Statistically insignificant. How do you
purpose fixing the problem? Do you think the cruise line doesn't try to
prevent this from happening? Infected people come onboard. Other people
get infected.

  #3  
Old June 22nd, 2005, 09:39 PM
alnmel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wow! You did have a bad cruise.

1) would knowing about previous illness have kept me from boarding?
No, but then I'm healthy and willing to risk it. I've read the stories
and know it's possible, but then so is getting sick at a movie theater
or bar or hotel or resort or airplane or work or...

2) Do I feel entitled to a full refund if the ship posts a note saying
somebody got sick on the last cruise, and based on that information I
choose not to board? Hmmmm. Depends on the extent of the infection.
If they say every single person got sick and nobody enjoyed themselves
then perhaps I would choose not to go. Under those circumstances I
would expect for them to pull the ship out of service for a period of
'disinfecting time'. If they do that then yes, I would expect a
refund.

3) Am I entitled to a full refund if I'm on the cruise and get sick and
don't enjoy myself? Gosh - I've had headaches, sunburn aches, wallet
aches. I imagine I'd first have to demonstrate that my illness was
directly related to negligence on the part of the ship and/or crew.
How do I prove that I got sick onboard, not from the plane trip down or
a port of call or a co-worker (or morning sickness :-). And even if it
was from another passenger, well that's a risk I run everywhere! Now
if it was a lingering infections caused by lack of sanitation that is
another thing completely - but how to prove? That's a tough nut to
crack and I wouldn't want to be in the cruise lines shoes if they had
to make that determination. Seems like a lose/lose to me. What if I'm
only a little sick so I choose to stay in my cabin one day - missing 7
meals (at least :-) and a port of call (and a comedian and an ice
carving lesson). Gosh - how do we determine exactly how much money I
should receive for my inconvenience? I know that sounds a bit flip,
but these are things to consider. Where do you draw the line, and what
about that inevitable group of people that STILL don't think they were
fairly compensated?

4) What responsibility does the cruise line have..... That is just
too big a question.

Do I think that Royal Caribbean kept something 'under wraps'? Well you
got the info from the CDC right? Heck, I don't advertise to people
that I had the flu last week. And how could Royal Caribbean know other
people were sick if those people chose not to see a doctor? They
didn't 'intentionally' keep that info from surfacing, they just *didn't
know* about the other people you spoke with who told you they didn't
see the ships doctor (is what is sounds like to me).

In this day and age, with reports of virus outbreaks aboard what seems
like every ship (regardless of the line), and hospitals/nursing homes
etc, would I go to one of these places if my health were in precarious
condition? No, probably not.

You were stuck in your cabin for 3 days, and then they kept you from
leaving the boat after that? I don't understand that at all! That
sounds like they were restricting your movements even after the
quarantine, and I would consider that wrong!

I just can't understand how a free cruise would magically fix your
situation. You say 'reliving the moments of your anniversay and
birthday were not retrievable'. But a free cruise would make it okay?
I'm sorry you were sick. I'm sorry you were misdiagnosed too. You
didn't mention what information you passed along to the ships doctor,
so I don't know if you were saying that he just didn't pay attention to
you or what. If it's a case of goodwill, perhaps that is exactly what
they were shooting for w/ the chocolates and the 'resolution credit'.
I'm just thankful to wake up each morning with my SO breathing beside
me.

  #4  
Old June 22nd, 2005, 11:03 PM
Chuck Dreier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You really documented your situation and I can tell you're quite upset. It
seems to me that you had a very unfortunate set of circumstances that could
happen to anyone, anywhere. Let me say I'm not a lawyer and didn't even
stay at the Holiday Inn Express, but stuff happens, if you know what I mean.
I'd be upset too, but don't think there's much you can do about it. My
advice is to just move on, recognize it for what it was - a very bad
experience - and never cruise with RC if that's what you choose. But don't
quit cruising if you enjoy it; just find another line and try again! Good
luck to you.

--
[This e-mail has been scanned and verified safe by Trend Micro's Internet
Security]
"landlocked" wrote in message
ups.com...
Have you had a very bad cruise experience and the cruise company
thought nothing of it? Did you ever feel Royal Caribbean was thinking,
'So what, we don't need you. We have many other people who will take
your place. You mean so little to us.'

Well, my discussion topic centers on these 4 questions:

(1) Should Royal Caribbean warn you before boarding that they had a
sickness and disease outbreak on its last sailing?

(2) Are you entitled to a full refund if you're told the ship had a
sickness and disease outbreak on its last sailing and you decline to
board?

(3) Are you entitled to a full refund if you're on an infected ship,
you're personally impacted, and you lose a substantial amount of
pleasure and ports-of-call?

(4) What responsibilities do you think the cruise line should have for
exposure, possible injury, or prolonged convalescence after the cruise
due to any of the items listed above?

These were important issues to me because I discovered Royal Caribbean
does operate 'infected' ships, their ships are 'risky' places to be -
especially for me and many older citizens, and they're not very people
friendly. Even the President of Royal Caribbean is unsympathetic and
cold-hearted.


[ Background story ]

I boarded Royal Caribbean's Voyager of the Seas with a long history of
gastrointestinal sicknesses. I have had esophagitis, acute gastric
ulcers, erosive inflammatory gastritis, and a hiatal hernia for over 40
years. The effects of my long list of medications for my stomach and
heart look like and have exactly the same reaction as a viral
infection. I didn't have a viral infection. I had stomach
poisoning. My wife dragged me to the ship's doctor - my stomach was
'crampy' and my chest hurt. She was worried. I just had a pacemaker
put in. I provided the ship's doctor with my medical history and list
of medications. I was grossly misdiagnosed by the ship's doctor, if
you call him that.

The virus wasn't present in me, but I had gone to the ship's doctor for
'relief' and he prescribed 'pain'. He isolated both me and my wife in
my cabin for 3 days at the very instant we docked for 3 consecutive
days ashore at different ports.

The ship gave us a dish of chocolates and strawberries and a small note
of apology for our trouble. Being stuck on the boat for all 9 days
ruined our good time. We were celebrating our 39th wedding anniversary
and my 65th birthday. The ship absolutely didn't resolve the situation
in a people friendly way. I was especially frustrated after shelling
out $4,200 hard-earned dollars for the cruise.


[ Was Royal Caribbean responsible? ]

The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta monitors and
administers control of potential disease outbreaks aboard ships. The
CDC runs a Vessel Sanitation Program (VSP). I made a request for
information to the CDC. The CDC informed me a disease outbreak did
occur aboard the Voyager of the Seas (my ship) on three (3) cruises in
a row (in sequence) this spring (2005). Royal Caribbean and the
'Voyager of the Seas' provided the information below to the CDC's
Vessel Sanitation Program. Here are three (3) very recent outbreaks
and the 2005 cruise dates:

(1) For the cruise starting May 15 and ending May 20, there were 45
passengers and 14 crew infected. I believe this was a Bermuda sailing
from Cape Liberty NJ.

(2) For the cruise starting May 20 and ending May 29, there were 85
passengers and 14 crew infected. This was our Western Caribbean
sailing from Cape Liberty NJ.

(3) For the cruise starting May 29 and ending June 3, there were 3
passengers and 0 crew infected. I believe this was a Bermuda sailing
from Cape Liberty NJ.

Were you sick on any of these cruises, or after you got home from them?
Did you have an extreme stomach illness or bowel ailment? Did you
leave the ship throwing up?

The numbers in the three (3) listed items above are only for those
passengers who reported to the Voyager of the Seas' ship Medical
Center. I personally saw the list of the people actually isolated,
interfaced with some of them, and spoke to many others who chose not to
see the ship's doctor for fear of being similarly isolated,
rightfully or wrongfully. The population of infected passengers was
under-reported between 50 and 100 percent. Did Royal Caribbean
possibly have a financial motive for conducting 'business-as-usual' and
for being dishonest with the CDC? What conclusion would you draw from
this? If the choice to the cruise lines was to lose millions of
dollars versus possibly making hundreds of innocent people sick, what
choice do you would they have chosen if the CDC didn't intercede-
which it didn't? It doesn't take a 'rocket-scientist' to decide.

In order for the CDC VSP to devise and implement effective strategies
to prevent recurrence of similar outbreaks, the cruise line must first
be factual and straightforward about their reporting statistics. If a
serious disease outbreak is 'under-reported', effective remedies cannot
take place.

The real question is, what were the actual levels of these outbreaks?
If Royal Caribbean's medical center statistics are either 'artificial'
or have been intentionally manipulated to minimize the actual
population affected, the outbreak would not appear on the 'radar'. The
absence of a thorough inspection after three (3) successive infectious
outbreaks favors Royal Caribbean financially. Does Royal Caribbean
return your lost cruise costs? No, they haven't as far as we know.

Did the Voyager of the Seas give boarding passengers at Cape liberty NJ
a choice before sailing on three infected ships? From other postings
on Google, it appears Royal Caribbean acted more humane in calendar
2004, but not in 2005. No, boarding passengers were denied the choice
three (3) times. Where is the cruise lines responsibility? Is this
the way to intentionally run a business?

If you want to discover what ships are infected and how often, go to
this URL: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm#2005

If you want to read about how really dirty and infected your cruise
ship is, go to this URL: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/default.htm

I don't pretend to be very fragile. But I have noticed many discussion
forum postings from people concerned about their health while on the
ship. Some people have Lupus and other immunity issues. The broad
spectrum of passengers on my cruise consisted of infants through people
in their 80's. The youngest and the oldest were those most at risk.
People get sick in any environment. But the real issue is, would
people of their 'free' intentionally board a 'sick' ship any more than
they would willingly walk into a fire?

There was no 'free' will when the 'Voyager of the Seas' kept their
knowledge of the three (3) infected sailings 'under-wraps'. Passengers
had no choice! If Royal Caribbean had said before we boarded there was
an infection, we would have not boarded. With my bad heart and
previous gastrointestinal issues, I would have stopped in my tracks,
and returned home rather than board the ship and be held captive for 9
days. Royal Caribbean didn't say anything. So, not given that choice,
we would have preferred to have been allowed to leave the ship during
the cruise immediately upon the ship's doctor's wrong diagnosis,
finish our vacation at one of the ports-of-call and then flown home at
our own expense. Seems like a simple solution, but the ship refused to
even allow us to do that.

We had a miserable time, and we thought we could recover something
afterwards. Reliving the moments of our wedding anniversary and
birthday were not retrievable, but Royal Caribbean's good will was.
Maybe a voucher for another cruise would have calmed our feelings. I
think the cruise line should have done something better than offer us a
dish of candy, don't you think?

I wrote Adam M. Goldstein, President of Royal Caribbean International.
Adam Goldstein's letter to me in response stated, "I apologize that
your cruise was not at all what you had hoped for..." Now that is an
understatement! Mr. Goldstein should just advertise the Centers for
Disease Control (CDC) sanitation reports on the Royal Caribbean web
site. That should make for increased business!

Royal Caribbean is in the business to make people 'happy'. That is
their only business. When they make people 'unhappy' for whatever
reason, for every unhappy person, the negative story they tell others
propagates and they (RC) lose the potential business of 10 other
customers. I know this is true in every other business model.

Royal Caribbean, as with any person, has an implied responsibility to
right a 'wrong' in some fashion. It should have been a voucher for
another future cruise, not a dish of candy and a few hundred dollars
falsely labeled as 'resolution credit'. We got that because we stayed
in our cabin. Many people didn't. Royal Caribbean's small
insignificant gesture may have been meant to intentionally spite their
customers even more. Royal Caribbean calls this 'Risk Management'.
They prefer to take a risk because they only expect a very small number
of people who were made unhappy to carry their complaint to an end
point that will bring financial harm to Royal Caribbean. The odds are
in their favor. If you're in the 97 percent that didn't get sick,
you're happy. If you're in the 3 percent that got food poisoning or
actually got the virus, you're miserable. When your sickness is no
fault of your own in the latter situation, then you're doubly
aggravated.

Most people in this country believe they have no responsibility for
their negative actions. Big businesses like Royal Caribbean think the
same. It is time to stop this notion.



  #5  
Old June 22nd, 2005, 11:49 PM
landlocked
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Let me respond to some of your comments after quoting them...

"It is easy enough to find out in other ways"
Please enlighten me. I saw no signs in the Cape Liberty NJ port
terminal advertising that the Voyager of the Seas that just docked 4
hours before after the Bermuda cruise was infected. The ship's staff
said nothing. By the way, I don't own a crystal ball and I don't
believe in psychics.

"And you still chose to sail on her?"
I'll take your comment as a joke. Someday you'll may as old as me and
you might just have a bad stomach. Lots of people have bad stomachs.
That keeps the TUMS, PEPCID, and NEXIUM people in business. The cruise
ship isn't an amusement ride where all you have to be is 44 inches tall
to board her. This is a ship that has to meet defined safety and
health regulations to protect everyone onboard, from babies through
seniors, including her staff and crew.

"How do you know what you had?"
Have you ever had food poisoning or just had an eating binge where you
ate too much? How about too much to drink? My illness was pretty
obvious. It wasn't a hangover, so it had to be the food or water. The
ship's food wasn't that good and the water from the tap tasted bad. I
was sitting with a restaurateur, an owner and chef, at our dinner table
each night. She felt some of the fish and meat served tasted bad and
thought the ship's refrigeration may have been broken.

"How do you know the virus wasn't present?"
In me or aboard the ship? If you're asking me about the 'former'
situation, this is the same question as above. I met another couple
on-board. She was a nurse (RN) and had food poisoning on our cruise at
the same exact time with the very same symptoms. Do you doubt her
professional diagnosis also? Strange coincidence, wouldn't you say?
She wasn't sitting anywhere near me. How do you explain a quack doctor
that looks at people and arrives at the same conclusion. He didn't say
I was infected. The Hotel Director sent the same letter to all the
passengers who saw the ship's doctor. It said you "..may be infected."

"Statistically insignificant"
My cruise that started May 20 and ended May 29 had 85 passengers and 14
crew infected as stated by the CDC. These 99 people amount to 3
percent of the population aboard ship. The CDC VSP alarms go off at 2
percent, the threshold for an official inquiry and on-ship inspection.
Why haven't you commented on the people who didn't report their
sickness to the ship? Numbers add up.

"Presumably, since the previous sailing, they have taken steps to
prevent it on future sailings."
Actually, if you compare the dates in my posting, 59 infected people on
the previous cruise is LESS than the 99 people infected on my cruise.
The ship was more infected on the second cruise.

I'll assume you're a 'sympathetic vote. Please don't take the ship's
side until you actually visit the web sites in my posting above and
read the inspection reports carefully. The CDC is very careful about
not alarming the public. Look at the CDC web site. It doesn't take a
rocket scientist to realize how dirty similar Royal Caribbean ships
have been historically been - it's on the CDC web site. The Voyager of
the Seas' management attitude has been sloppy keeping her clean.

Washing down staircase handrails and elevator pushbuttons and using
sanitizer for hand-washing is not the same as unseen and unclean food
preparation areas or a contaminated water supply. Once again, be
neutral and visit the CDC web sites in my posting above and read the
inspection reports.

Even the Voyager of the Seas staff and crew could not stay impartial if
they read about their ship and the rest of the Royal Caribbean fleet.
Mistakes are more of an issue when people's health and safety are
concerned.

For 97 percent of the hundreds of thousands (or millions) of Royal
Caribbean passengers who never got sick on their ships, this is all a
moot discussion. But if you're in the 3 percent, the minority
so-to-speak, and you feel they arbitrarily robbed you of your $4,200 of
hard earned vacation money and precious time off from work through a
misdiagnosis by a 'quack', it is much more an issue.

  #6  
Old June 23rd, 2005, 12:04 AM
mrtravel
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landlocked wrote:

"Statistically insignificant"
My cruise that started May 20 and ended May 29 had 85 passengers and 14
crew infected as stated by the CDC.


I was referring to the 3 people showing on what I think was the 3rd report.

These 99 people amount to 3
percent of the population aboard ship. The CDC VSP alarms go off at 2
percent, the threshold for an official inquiry and on-ship inspection.
Why haven't you commented on the people who didn't report their
sickness to the ship? Numbers add up.


I can't comment on the unknown, other than to say it was unknown.
I also suspect that some of the "known" ones could have been faking it
to get compensation. I don't know. My comment was that 3 people on a
cruise would have been statistically insignificant.


"Presumably, since the previous sailing, they have taken steps to
prevent it on future sailings."
Actually, if you compare the dates in my posting, 59 infected people on
the previous cruise is LESS than the 99 people infected on my cruise.
The ship was more infected on the second cruise.


There is the possibility that someone took it on the second cruise.
I don't see your point though, since according to you, you didn't have
it. Since you had the "expert" opinion of a nurse, why bother with the
doctor. Without testing, I doubt the nurse or you would know for
certain. I also don't recall what you said the doctor diagnosed this as.
According to you, he didn't not diagnose you with this infection and
you also indicated that the nurse passenger also said you didn't have it.
However, since you were sick, it makes sense that you would stay in your
cabin, as your immune system had been weakened and this made you more
prone to catching an infection.


I'll assume you're a 'sympathetic vote. Please don't take the ship's
side until you actually visit the web sites in my posting above and
read the inspection reports carefully.


Right, everyone should always take the passenger's side of the story.


The CDC is very careful about
not alarming the public. Look at the CDC web site. It doesn't take a
rocket scientist to realize how dirty similar Royal Caribbean ships
have been historically been - it's on the CDC web site.


It's on the CDC web site, so therefore the info was available to you.
Your complaint seems to be that Voyager isn't issuing negative press
releases. Do you see other cruise ships reporting their problems like
this? Presumably, the Voyager has been passing US health inspections.
Have you considered that a ship can be very clean and someone can still
some onboard and infect the passengers? How often did you clean your
hands after touching things in public areas?


The Voyager of
the Seas' management attitude has been sloppy keeping her clean.


Does this


Washing down staircase handrails and elevator pushbuttons and using
sanitizer for hand-washing is not the same as unseen and unclean food
preparation areas or a contaminated water supply.


Once again, be
neutral and visit the CDC web sites in my posting above and read the
inspection reports.


If they didn't pass US health inspections, they wouldn't be sailing.

For 97 percent of the hundreds of thousands (or millions) of Royal
Caribbean passengers who never got sick on their ships, this is all a
moot discussion. But if you're in the 3 percent,


Do you have information indicating 3 percent of passengers get ill on
this ship due to something the company has done? The facts as posted,
don't reveal this percentage of their total passengers, let alone prove
the ship was at fault.

  #7  
Old June 23rd, 2005, 01:39 AM
Surfer E2468
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Read the fine print cruise lines are not responsible for ANYTHING. We
tried to look up the health report on our next cruise N.C.L,CROWN,and
found it has NOT been inspected since 2004,and i believe that was when
they had the virus outbreak,am having second thoughts ,and trying to
decide if we should cancel the cruise while we still have time.

  #8  
Old June 23rd, 2005, 04:22 PM
Warren
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Surfer E2468 wrote:
tried to look up the health report on our next cruise N.C.L,CROWN,and
found it has NOT been inspected since 2004,and i believe that was when
they had the virus outbreak,am having second thoughts ,and trying to
decide if we should cancel the cruise while we still have time.


This is kind of silly. A ship can score 100% one week and have someone
sick come aboard the very next week and spread a virus. After seeing
the amount of precautions NCL was taking on my recent cruise I wouldn't
hesitate to say that you're about as safe from "infection" as possible
on their ships. No doubt the other cruise lines are doing likewise.

Warren

  #9  
Old June 23rd, 2005, 10:48 PM
Surfer E2468
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Warren:
Thank you,my husband said i'm too old to worry about anything,we are
just going and we will enjoy it like we did our other 36 cruises
surfer e2468

  #10  
Old June 25th, 2005, 04:23 AM
Chip
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"landlocked" wrote in message
ups.com...
Have you had a very bad cruise experience and the cruise company
thought nothing of it? Did you ever feel Royal Caribbean was thinking,
'So what, we don't need you. We have many other people who will take
your place. You mean so little to us.'



Blah, blah, blah. Learn to wash your hands next time, and you wont have a
problem. Royal Caribbean is no worse than any other cruise line, and a
hell
of a lot safer than taking a walk through any metropolitan hospital when
it
comes to contracting a disease.

I suppose if lightning struck you on deck, they would be responsible for
it
too...People bring disease on board, not vice versa...




 




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