BKK--Move?

Without embracing the local scene, BKK IS an expensive place to live.

Buying Western foods, harboring Western expectations regarding service
and convenience, all add up to Western expense.

I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

I eat better in Thailand than in the US, and ALWAYS feel better (and
lighter), due to fresh food, and avoiding McD's...

I get a bit annoyed at people who come here and expect to live like
they do in Kansas, and then complain about what they perceive as
adversity. Learn something about how to live here, and Thailand can
be great...

S

On 18 Aug 2003 17:53:03 -0700, (XOR) wrote:

suebo wrote in message ...


**I never questioned the electric bills as it was basically the same
in KL, may be we were getting ripped off. Who knows.**

Well, it's quite possible the difference was due to the number of
people and size of apartment- I was on my own, I assume in a 4+
bedroom you probably had more than one person.
**Eating at the Western or European restaurants was not cheap at all -
and there are plenty of them. If you are talking about McD's, Pizza
Hut etc, they are quite cheap for a meal for one, but I am talking
more about proper restaurants.

No, I never went to western restaurants (ok, did once,and the food was
so bland Ididn't bother to go again). ANd I never even go into a McD's
Pizza Hut etc in the west, so certainly didn't in Bangkok! I am
talking about the nicer Thai restaurants.

We found a fantastic local "corner"
outdoor restaurant called SUDA. It is located on Sukhumvit Soi 14
(little lane way). It is a real expat hangout and a lot of the time
you will have to wait for a table. 4 dishes + rice + 4 big bottles
beer - average price THB600 ($13US). Bargain.**


May also be the difference here - if you frequented expat hangouts
tend to be more expensive than local ones. If you tend to eat 'on the
street' which is what I usually did, it is vastly cheaper. That
said,now living upcountry, I find BKK expensive

All in all it is not a cheap place to live.

I guess it depends upon how you live. By my current standards I'd say
expensive, but I live in a very cheap place on the border. By US
standards, it was far cheaper - the cost of my flat in BKK,for
example, was less than my then much smaller apartment in Texas, which
also had no ammenities.

**Compared to US cost of living, it is around about the same. Mortgage
payment is slightly more than my apartment cost, but it is not all dead
money. Electricity is slightly higher in US, phone heaps cheaper in US.
Eating out more or less on par - depends on what you want to eat. Now
go to Australia and everything is cheaper **

Well, I must say my experience was the opposite. It IS a big city and
is more expensive than living in the countryside, but I still found
cost of living substantially less than in the US overall. Guess it
just depends upon how one lives

Ribbit! wrote:
I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

I spoke with someone yesterday who said a 1-bedroom apartment in Bangkok ran
for about $500. Was that an exaggeration, or might he have been speaking of
a standard beyond what's really necessary?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

(Miguel Cruz) wrote in message . ..
Ribbit! wrote:
I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

I spoke with someone yesterday who said a 1-bedroom apartment in Bangkok ran
for about $500. Was that an exaggeration, or might he have been speaking of
a standard beyond what's really necessary?

Living in many places in Thailand on $500 a month can be done (if
you're willing to "go native"). The poster sounds like he can. But
living in Bangkok "VERY comfortably" on that amount is a pipe dream.
Bangkok is as expensive and in some cases more expensive to live in
that most US cities.

A bare-bones single room concrete floor flat with a fan and no hot
water is over $100 a month. A reasonable flat with wood or carpet
flooring, A/C, hot and cold running water, full kitchen, etc. (the
kind of things you'd expect if you're living "VERY comfortably") is
easily $500 a month.

Also, living in Thailand anywhere on 20,000 baht a month is illegal
for a foreigner. The minimum income to get a temporary residence visa
is 40,000 baht per month (if you're married to a Thai or something
like that) or about 65,000 baht a month if you're a retiree.

Otherwise you get a tourist visa and leave the country every 90 days.
And there have been stories about Thailand cracking down on that.

Ribbit! wrote in message . ..
Without embracing the local scene, BKK IS an expensive place to live.

Buying Western foods, harboring Western expectations regarding service
and convenience, all add up to Western expense.

I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

I question whether you can live "VERY comfortably" in Bangkok for that
amount. Other cities in Thailand, yes. But you'd have a hard time
finding a nice flat for that amount.

I eat better in Thailand than in the US, and ALWAYS feel better (and
lighter), due to fresh food, and avoiding McD's...

I get a bit annoyed at people who come here and expect to live like
they do in Kansas, and then complain about what they perceive as
adversity. Learn something about how to live here, and Thailand can
be great...

A good point. A *VERY* good point.

(Miguel Cruz) wrote in message . ..
Ribbit! wrote:
I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

I spoke with someone yesterday who said a 1-bedroom apartment in Bangkok ran
for about $500. Was that an exaggeration, or might he have been speaking of
a standard beyond what's really necessary?

miguel


I paid 20,000 baht for my one bedroom/1.5 bath flat in BKK (at the
time - Nov 2001-Apr 2002,that was ~ US$420). However, that was a fully
furnished (include sheets/towels etc), full serviced place - maid
2x/week, security guard, pool, garden, parking, direct phone line,
laundry service (but also a washing machine in the apt), etc in a
rather 'upscale' neighborhood near the BTS line.

I looked at many apartments that were more around 12,000 baht. These
were certainly tolerable, clean and nice. A few less services, but not
bad. And my searches were confined to a certain location. If I went
elsewhere in BKK and was willing to use the bus more, I could have
paid even less.

So, yeah, that's a standard beyond what's "really necessary", but
obviously each person's necessities are a personal thing. I wouldn't
want to try to live in Bangkok on US$500 a month, but no double it is
doable. That's about double what I live on in Tak Province (much of
which includes my phone bill...), so now that seems like a lot of
money. The drop in the US$ isn't helping.

btw - speaking Thai makes a huge difference - it's easier to negotiate
rent.

"Tchiowa" wrote

Ribbit! wrote:

I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

SNIP
A bare-bones single room concrete floor flat with a fan and no hot
water is over $100 a month. A reasonable flat with wood or carpet
flooring, A/C, hot and cold running water, full kitchen, etc. (the
kind of things you'd expect if you're living "VERY comfortably") is
easily $500 a month.

You got a far better place than what you describe for 4000 baht. (100USD) I
have friends (both Thai and farangs) who for that amount rent fully
furnished studios at about 30-40 sq.m. which have tiled/granite floor, hot
water and A/C - no kitchen though. Maybe not enough to meet your standard,
but fully livable.
You can also get a one bedroom apartment with kitchen and all the above for
far less than 20.000 baht (500USD)

Also, living in Thailand anywhere on 20,000 baht a month is illegal
for a foreigner. The minimum income to get a temporary residence visa
is 40,000 baht per month (if you're married to a Thai or something
like that) or about 65,000 baht a month if you're a retiree.

Illigal? Is it? I think not.
You say foreigner, but not all foreigners are Americans. As a matter of
fact, all foreigners aren't even farangs.
There are nationalities that can obtain a one year visa and WP with a salary
of 20.000 baht a month.
There is also different rules for different occupations, i.e. journalists
doesn't need more than 20.000 baht a month.
I used to study in Bangkok years ago. I did get a one year visa without any
minimum income requirement what so ever.
So, it is not illigal for a foreigner to live in Thailand on 20.000 baht a
month.


Otherwise you get a tourist visa and leave the country every 90 days.
And there have been stories about Thailand cracking down on that.

Last time I checked a Tourist visa grants you a stay of 60 days in the
country.
You can then get an additional 30 days at Immigration. (which gives you a
total of 90 days)

"Guava" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote

Ribbit! wrote:

I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

SNIP
A bare-bones single room concrete floor flat with a fan and no hot
water is over $100 a month. A reasonable flat with wood or carpet
flooring, A/C, hot and cold running water, full kitchen, etc. (the
kind of things you'd expect if you're living "VERY comfortably") is
easily $500 a month.

You got a far better place than what you describe for 4000 baht. (100USD) I
have friends (both Thai and farangs) who for that amount rent fully
furnished studios at about 30-40 sq.m. which have tiled/granite floor, hot
water and A/C - no kitchen though. Maybe not enough to meet your standard,
but fully livable.

Did you read the phrase "VERY comfortable" (he emphasize the "VERY",
not me)?

And I don't know where you get a place like that for what you describe
in Bangkok these days.

You can also get a one bedroom apartment with kitchen and all the above for
far less than 20.000 baht (500USD)

Also, living in Thailand anywhere on 20,000 baht a month is illegal
for a foreigner. The minimum income to get a temporary residence visa
is 40,000 baht per month (if you're married to a Thai or something
like that) or about 65,000 baht a month if you're a retiree.

Illigal? Is it? I think not.

I think so. You need a residential type visa (temporary residency) to
legally live in Thailand. There are rules to get them.

You say foreigner, but not all foreigners are Americans. As a matter of
fact, all foreigners aren't even farangs.

I never said that they were. The rules are to obtain one year visas.
The rules apply to everyone.

There are nationalities that can obtain a one year visa and WP with a salary
of 20.000 baht a month.

Not any more. The rules just changed. Or "are changing".

There is also different rules for different occupations, i.e. journalists
doesn't need more than 20.000 baht a month.

To live there they do.

I used to study in Bangkok years ago. I did get a one year visa without any
minimum income requirement what so ever.
So, it is not illigal for a foreigner to live in Thailand on 20.000 baht a
month.

Read the rules to obtain a visa on http://www.thaiembdc.org The income
rules have just changed (or are in the process of changing).

Tchiowa wrote:
"Guava" wrote:
Also, living in Thailand anywhere on 20,000 baht a month is illegal
for a foreigner. The minimum income to get a temporary residence visa
is 40,000 baht per month (if you're married to a Thai or something
like that) or about 65,000 baht a month if you're a retiree.

Illigal? Is it? I think not.

I think so. You need a residential type visa (temporary residency) to
legally live in Thailand. There are rules to get them.

But the rules, from what I can tell, just talk about how much money you have
to have available, not how much you have to spend (and certainly not how
much you specifically have to spend on rent).

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
"Guava" wrote in message
...
"Tchiowa" wrote

Ribbit! wrote:

I can live VERY comfortably on US$500/month (20,000 baht) in
Bangkok,
but I speak Thai, eat Thai, and have Thai friends. I don't sit on
a
barstool all day, nor go out chasing bargirls every night.

SNIP
A bare-bones single room concrete floor flat with a fan and no hot
water is over $100 a month. A reasonable flat with wood or carpet
flooring, A/C, hot and cold running water, full kitchen, etc. (the
kind of things you'd expect if you're living "VERY comfortably") is
easily $500 a month.

You got a far better place than what you describe for 4000 baht.
(100USD) I
have friends (both Thai and farangs) who for that amount rent fully
furnished studios at about 30-40 sq.m. which have tiled/granite floor,
hot
water and A/C - no kitchen though. Maybe not enough to meet your
standard,
but fully livable.

Did you read the phrase "VERY comfortable" (he emphasize the "VERY",
not me)?

Yes, I read that and I know that you didn't emphasize "VERY".
I just wanted to say that what is VERY comfortable for him might not even be
comfortable for others.

And I don't know where you get a place like that for what you describe
in Bangkok these days.

If you look a little bit outside the business districts you find a lot of
those places.
Try Sukhumvit Rd. from Phrakhanong out towards On Nut.
Rama 3 area, including Sathu Pradit, Nang Linchee Rds., Laat Phrao...


You can also get a one bedroom apartment with kitchen and all the above
for
far less than 20.000 baht (500USD)

Also, living in Thailand anywhere on 20,000 baht a month is illegal
for a foreigner. The minimum income to get a temporary residence visa
is 40,000 baht per month (if you're married to a Thai or something
like that) or about 65,000 baht a month if you're a retiree.

Illegal? Is it? I think not.

I think so. You need a residential type visa (temporary residency) to
legally live in Thailand. There are rules to get them.

Yes, you need a Non Immigrant visa of some kind to legally live in Thailand.
Yes, there are rules to get them, but those rules are not the same for
everyone.

You say foreigner, but not all foreigners are Americans. As a matter of
fact, all foreigners aren't even farangs.

I never said that they were. The rules are to obtain one year visas.
The rules apply to everyone.

As I said, different rules depending on nationality, type of visa and
occupation.

There are nationalities that can obtain a one year visa and WP with a
salary
of 20.000 baht a month.

Not any more. The rules just changed. Or "are changing".

The rules have not changed. There are talks about changing them, but not
until July 2004.
Even in the new rules discussed, there are groups of foreigners that will be
allowed to stay on a monthly income of 20.000 baht.
Foreigners working in the newspaper business need only 20.000 baht according
to the new rules, if they are implemented.
For those who wish to retire in Thailand I quote the article from Chiang Mai
news that started this visa discussion in SCT:
"A foreigner who entered the Kingdom before October 21st, 1998 must be under
60 years of age and must have regular income of not less than 20,000b per
month"
(But I think that they made a mistake in this quote, it should be *over* 60,
because if you are between 55 and 60 you need 50.000 baht.)


There is also different rules for different occupations, i.e.
journalists
doesn't need more than 20.000 baht a month.

To live there they do.

Why?


I used to study in Bangkok years ago. I did get a one year visa without
any
minimum income requirement what so ever.
So, it is not illegal for a foreigner to live in Thailand on 20.000 baht
a
month.

Read the rules to obtain a visa on http://www.thaiembdc.org The income
rules have just changed (or are in the process of changing).

I didn't find anything on the new income requirements on that site.

JohanZ
living and working in Thailand

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:19:26 GMT, Thomas F. Unke
wrote:

(Miguel Cruz) writes:


I spoke with someone yesterday who said a 1-bedroom apartment in Bangkok ran
for about $500. Was that an exaggeration, or might he have been speaking of
a standard beyond what's really necessary?

You can get a one room serviced appt. in BKK easily for around 6000B=~ 150$.

Maybe, but what kind of a dump would you get for that price?

I lived in Thailand for 2 years and paid 25,000 Baht (about $600 at
the time) for a nice fully-furnished 1-bedroom 80sqm apartment in
Silom Road. That included all expenses such as electricity, laundry
etc. I compared that with other available properties and couldn't find
much better for a comparable place. I think the $500 figure is quite
reasonable.

Chris