Markku - read the news lately?

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 22:43:35 +0100, Doesn't Frequently Mop
wrote:

Make credence recognised that on Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:45:08 -0800,
VainGlorious has scripted:

BTW: if you frothing pro-American Americans (I'm just a plain ole'
American myself) want to read a really good book about European
Anti-Americanism, pick up "Uncouth Nation: Why Europe Dislikes
America" by Andrei S Markovits. He has many good points (especially
the synergy of right-wing Europeans hating America for being too
tolerant and left-wing Europeans hating America for being too
intolerant), but he too often whitewashes valid points that some
Europeans make about the loud, brash people across the pond.

All in all, a good read.

It pains me somewhat to read Americans canning Americans. Can't you
all just have a big group hug?

Mea culpa: I am wont to criticize my compatriots. In my own defense, I
tend to be skeptical of the vast bulk of humanity (or, as I call them,
the "perfumed hogs"), so groaning about the state of American culture
comes naturally.

But this book is not a hatchet job on Americans. On the contrary: it
is a stinging rebuke of elitist European anti-Americanism. While it's
not blustery enough to satisfy the patriotic appetite of the
flag-wavers, it is a daring defense of America in the face of some
serious heat from overseas. America has been the whipping boy of
European intellectuals long before any Bush took office, and America
will continue to weather this vitriol long after the Bushes are dead
and gone. Even if America rescinded the Declaration of Independence,
declared allegiance to the Crown and flew the Union Jack over the
White House, there would still be murmurings about how "those bloody
yanks" are too rich and have too many poor, are too licentious and
Puritanical, are foolishly independent and rigidly conformist, make
barbaric music and are laughably conservative, are too proud of their
amazing accomplishments yet owe everything to their European
forebears.

Just like Americans often miscalculate Europe, Europeans often miss
the point about America. What I love about this place is the goddamn
chaos. Our fearlessness in expressing ourselves makes the place
interesting. Unfortunately, our conservative brothers are determined
to continually check this uninhibited "joie de vivre".

I think Jack Nicholson said it best in "Easy Rider":

"Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you
about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna
scare 'em."

- TR

Make credence recognised that on Sat, 10 Nov 2007 21:43:45 -0800,
VainGlorious has scripted:

But this book is not a hatchet job on Americans. On the contrary: it
is a stinging rebuke of elitist European anti-Americanism. While it's
not blustery enough to satisfy the patriotic appetite of the
flag-wavers, it is a daring defense of America in the face of some
serious heat from overseas. America has been the whipping boy of
European intellectuals long before any Bush took office, and America
will continue to weather this vitriol long after the Bushes are dead
and gone.

I do wonder just how much of this European anti-American is purely
imagined. IME apart from the universal contempt of the Iraq mess,
Europeans don't have any great beef with the USA.

Even if America rescinded the Declaration of Independence,
declared allegiance to the Crown and flew the Union Jack over the
White House, there would still be murmurings about how "those bloody
yanks" are too rich and have too many poor, are too licentious and
Puritanical, are foolishly independent and rigidly conformist, make
barbaric music and are laughably conservative, are too proud of their
amazing accomplishments yet owe everything to their European
forebears.

Just like Americans often miscalculate Europe, Europeans often miss
the point about America. What I love about this place is the goddamn
chaos. Our fearlessness in expressing ourselves makes the place
interesting. Unfortunately, our conservative brothers are determined
to continually check this uninhibited "joie de vivre".

I think Jack Nicholson said it best in "Easy Rider":

"Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you
about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna
scare 'em."

Again, I think Americans have an idea about freedom which isn't
particularly tangible. I can name a number of freedoms that can be
enjoyed in Europe that can't be in the USA. It also goes vice versa.

We could make a list of freedoms on both sides, but I'd say they would
balance each other out.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On 11 Nov, 06:26, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:
--
"I am smarter than you think I am"
- Maryanne "Loafhead" Kehoe to me
in alt.gossip.celebrities





VainGlorious wrote:
On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 12:39:30 -0800, PeterL wrote:

On Nov 8, 4:39 am, Markku Grönroos wrote:
"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" kirjoitti
. ..

"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" kirjoitti
. ..

Well, our Finnish friend, this sad, despicable, tragedy did not
happen
in the United States but in your country. Still gonna post your
anti-American violence tripe to rec.travel.usa-can?

Markku Grönroos wrote:

I have never posted anything anti American anywhere.

There is nothing anti American there.

Did you and George Bush go to the same school? Cause he said torture
is illegal, but water boarding is not torture, therefore it's legal.

Actually, your cognition skills are lacking; maybe YOU should be
speech-writing for GWB.

Here is how intelligent people parse Markku's post:

Even a dummy can see that what he posts is pure and unadalterated bilge...

When ever those timid Americans ask something about a destination
abroad, the first question is almost invariably: is it safe to travel
there?

Note that he said "timid" Americans. Not "all" Americans or even just
"Americans". He was referring to those cowed, TV-raised idiots who
have been brainwashed into thinking the US is a wonderland of
tolerance and safety, while European countries are likely havens for
swarthy, knife-wielding, socialist junkies needing cash for a fix.

In the case of the Netherlands the last point is somewhat valid...

:-)

These types of ignorant Americans do exist. For proof, please do read
the RTE archives at your leisure. Fortunately (and I'm sure Marrku
agrees), most Americans are aware that they are statistically more
likely to suffer from violent crime in the US than in any European
country. Most Americans enjoy traveling to Europe in this knowledge.

True, most Americans who travel to Europe are *much* more concerned about
getting ripped off by the louche corrupt locals...and more often than not
they'd be right to be concerned.

But Americans *are* pretty naive when it comes to European staples such as
gangs of thieving Gypsy, Arab, and African pickpockets and con artists, as
that sort of thing doesn't really exist in the states...

By safety they always mean that how probable it is that someone
physically attacks them. It is rather odd. Why only Americans are so
worried about it.

Here, Marrku is simply stating an open-ended question, albeit perhaps
with a small barb. The open-ended question is "What causes timidity
and misinformation in some Americans?" and the tiny barb is "Europeans
don't have the same outlook, so something must be polluted in American
society".

And guess what? He's right! Compared to our European forebears,
Americans tend to be less informed, more religious and less worldly.

I've seen vast amounts of ignorance displayed by Europeans right here on
this group...Markku is right up there in the "idiot" category.

And what do you mean by "less informed" and "less worldly"? That the
average American doesn't know the annual output of Andorra, or who is the
Cultural Minister of North Rhine - Westphalia...or...???

It's not true across the boards, but it is a noticable difference in
our cultures.

There are many different "cultures" in the US, many different "cultures"
even in a city like Chicago...

I'm not Marrku's gay boyfriend, and I'm not his sockpuppet. He may
very well have made other posts that are clearly anti-American. I
don't read his posts often enough to know. But the post that was
quoted as "proof" of his anti-Americanism falls short of the mark.

Markku's a leading Usenet idiot and anti -Yank flamer - or haven't you
noticed...???

BTW: if you frothing pro-American Americans (I'm just a plain ole'
American myself) want to read a really good book about European
Anti-Americanism, pick up "Uncouth Nation: Why Europe Dislikes
America" by Andrei S Markovits. He has many good points (especially
the synergy of right-wing Europeans hating America for being too
tolerant and left-wing Europeans hating America for being too
intolerant), but he too often whitewashes valid points that some
Europeans make about the loud, brash people across the pond.

All in all, a good read.

Americans don't give a fiddler's fcuk what anyone "thinks" of them...we're
big and rich and important and so most simply don't care.

--
Best
Greg

"I am smarter than you think I am"
- Maryanne "Loafhead" Kehoe to me
in alt.gossip.celebrities

when u say 'big', do you mean 'fat' ;-)

Hatunen wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 01:30:00 -0800, Wim Bledon
wrote:


On 8 Nov, 11:38, "TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote:

Well, our Finnish friend, this sad, despicable, tragedy did not happen
in the United States but in your country. Still gonna post your
anti-American violence tripe to rec.travel.usa-can?

its a dumb idea to sell people guns in any country......but the USA is
a leading example.......


According to our local dead tree this morning, Finland is well up
there in gun ownership per capita. I expect that includes a
;large percentage of hunting guns, though.

The report I saw was that Finland is #3 in the world statistics for
firearms per head of population, and #1 in Europe.
Guess who the world #1 is.

T.

On 11 Nov, 13:24, Tom Peel wrote:
Hatunen wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 01:30:00 -0800, Wim Bledon
wrote:

On 8 Nov, 11:38, "TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote:

Well, our Finnish friend, this sad, despicable, tragedy did not happen
in the United States but in your country. Still gonna post your
anti-American violence tripe to rec.travel.usa-can?

its a dumb idea to sell people guns in any country......but the USA is
a leading example.......

According to our local dead tree this morning, Finland is well up
there in gun ownership per capita. I expect that includes a
;large percentage of hunting guns, though.

The report I saw was that Finland is #3 in the world statistics for
firearms per head of population, and #1 in Europe.
Guess who the world #1 is.

T.

....Iraq ?

"Bustas Crabbs" skrev i meddelandet
ups.com...
On 11 Nov, 13:24, Tom Peel wrote:
Hatunen wrote:
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 01:30:00 -0800, Wim Bledon
wrote:

On 8 Nov, 11:38, "TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote:

Well, our Finnish friend, this sad, despicable, tragedy did not happen
in the United States but in your country. Still gonna post your
anti-American violence tripe to rec.travel.usa-can?

its a dumb idea to sell people guns in any country......but the USA is
a leading example.......

According to our local dead tree this morning, Finland is well up
there in gun ownership per capita. I expect that includes a
;large percentage of hunting guns, though.

The report I saw was that Finland is #3 in the world statistics for
firearms per head of population, and #1 in Europe.
Guess who the world #1 is.

T.

...Iraq ?

No ,but actually Yemen was mentioned in the news as no 1
And as I can remember from Afghanistan (1974) almost every male in the
countryside had a rifle over the shoulder. Haven't changed much I guess.
Sweden have about 1,8 million guns for a population of 9 million. Mostly
for hunting purpose and one hunter may have license for up to 6 rifles.

Markku Grönroos wrote:

"Hatunen" kirjoitti
om...

Careful -- if you're in favor of better gun control in the U.S., this
incident can cut the wrong way. As I recall the story in our local dead
tree, Finland in fact has, along with many good, quite enlightened
sounding gun control and licensing measures, training requirements, and
so on -- and yet this incident still occurred.

Actually one of very few gun incidents, so I wouldn't draw any
gun control implications from that either, except that the rarity
of such incidents demonstrates that gun control just might work.

The other chap means that it is nonsense to assemble locks on the street
doors. Burglers break in anyways.

and did you know that finland has more machineguns in private hands per
person than even switzerland and far more than in the US.

no crime at all with them either.