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#1
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
Hi,
A few friends and I are looking to travel to the USA next Summer. We plan on spending 3-4 weeks there, flying into Phoenix and then heading to a few various National Parks, coupled with some of the big cities on the West Coast. More specifically, this is what I've considered as a plan: -Flying into PHX -Driving to Flagstaff -Visiting the Petrified Forest before heading North to Monument Valley -From there, heading SW to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon -Travelling into Utah to see Zion National Park, and then heading SW again to Las Vegas. -From Las Vegas, heading NW through Death Valley, to Yosemite National Park. -We then plan on travelling to San Francisco, before driving down Highway 1 to LA, and further, San Diego. -From San Diego (which isn't a definite stop on our trip) to Joshua Tree National Park. -Heading NE to the old Route 66 road between Seligman and Kingman, and hopefully visiting Havasupai (?). -Finally heading back towards Flagstaff, before driving south through Sedona to return to PHX. What I'm unsure about is how to divide up time between the various places. Monument Valley looked like the kind of place it would be good to stop at briefly, but nothing longer really, as there didn't strike me as being a great deal to do there. As for motels in the area, I figure the best place to stop at there would be Mexican Hat (?). Without having the info in front of me, I seem to recall that Kayenta and Mexican Hat were the two nearest areas with motels, and MH was much cheaper. As for the Grand Canyon, how long is it reasonable to stay there? We would be looking to hike to the bottom of the Canyon, and we'd probably take the Bright Angel trail. From what I've read, it's best to hike down in one day, and hike up the next. Is two days enough time to spend in the Canyon? Personally I didn't feel there was as much to do/see here as in Yosemite, and I figured two days might be enough to cover it. Comments..? I'd imagine 3/4 days would be good for Yosemite. Probably check out Yosemite Valley, and then hike to the other areas, such as Tuolomne Meadows. As for Death Valley, all I anticipate here would be a quick walk from the car to get some photos, possibly see Badlands, and then move on. I'd imagine the intense heat would make anything else pretty uncomfortable really. Sound about right...? I don't know a huge amount about Zion National Park, although I do know there's an abundance of other NP's nearby - Bryce, Canyonlands, Arches, etc. How long would be a reasonable time to spend in Zion, and would it be worthwhile changing the itinerary to visit these nearby NP's? If we could just visit one of the others, which should we plump for..? I also don't entirely understand the situation regarding cars in National Parks. Regarding Yosemite, its my understanding that we could drive in, and park somewhere in the Valley, e.g. a car park near Curry Village. Are these car parks free? What is the maximum parking duration? As for the Grand Canyon, I recall reading that a westward drive is shut off in the summer months, but an eastward drive yields some parking places. Do we just park the car and set off hiking? Is it that simply? Absolute 'beginner's advice' for what to do regarding cars in National Parks would be much appreciated, as would any comments on the plan as a whole! Cheers Peter |
#2
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
Let me suggest this itinerary.
Phoenix to Grand Canyon to Monument Valley to Durango, Colorado (Mesa Verde NP, narrow guage train ride), reverse to Cortez then up to Moab, Utah (Canyonlands, Arches, Dead Horse Point) then to Bryce Canyon, Zion, Las Vegas. Death Valley and Joshua Tree are outrageously hot in the summer (110f or more), go if you like. Anyway, after Vegas up 395 and over Tioga Pass (fabulous road) into Yosemite, then to SF, down to Monterrey (do the "17 mile drive") then to Calif 1 down the coast--tour Hearst Castle at San Simeon, and so on. The only thing worth seeing that this misses is the giant Sequoia trees. Believe me, you haven't seen a big tree until you have seen them! Where are you flying in from?? |
#3
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
"User 1.nospam" wrote in message t... Let me suggest this itinerary. Phoenix to Grand Canyon to Monument Valley to Durango, Colorado (Mesa Verde NP, narrow guage train ride), reverse to Cortez then up to Moab, Utah (Canyonlands, Arches, Dead Horse Point) then to Bryce Canyon, Zion, Las Vegas. Death Valley and Joshua Tree are outrageously hot in the summer (110f or more), go if you like. Anyway, after Vegas up 395 and over Tioga Pass (fabulous road) into Yosemite, then to SF, down to Monterrey (do the "17 mile drive") then to Calif 1 down the coast--tour Hearst Castle at San Simeon, and so on. The only thing worth seeing that this misses is the giant Sequoia trees. Believe me, you haven't seen a big tree until you have seen them! Where are you flying in from?? Thanks for the proposal! Will fire up a map and check out the places you've mentioned. Hadn't planned on spending a huge amount of time in Joshua Tree anyway, and if its very hot then I may just give it a miss. I'm flying in from LHR. Never been to America before, and I can't wait for it. How long do you estimate the 395 drive from Vegas to Yosemite to be? Using the route I detailed earlier, I had it as 132mi (3hr 12) from Vegas to Death Valley, and a further 340mi (8hr 23) to Yosemite (using MSN Maps). The slightly thorny issue with that area of the itinerary was the fact that there wasn't much choice of where to stop at - I seem to recall there were only a few towns along the route, Lee Vining and Beatty being two I remember. Is finding a motel to stop over at easier along the Tioga Pass...? Cheers for the advice! Pete |
#4
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
You don't include Bryce NP on your list. I would definitely go there also.
It is spectacular. Julie "Peter Ibrahim" wrote in message ... Hi, A few friends and I are looking to travel to the USA next Summer. We plan on spending 3-4 weeks there, flying into Phoenix and then heading to a few various National Parks, coupled with some of the big cities on the West Coast. More specifically, this is what I've considered as a plan: -Flying into PHX -Driving to Flagstaff -Visiting the Petrified Forest before heading North to Monument Valley -From there, heading SW to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon -Travelling into Utah to see Zion National Park, and then heading SW again to Las Vegas. -From Las Vegas, heading NW through Death Valley, to Yosemite National Park. -We then plan on travelling to San Francisco, before driving down Highway 1 to LA, and further, San Diego. -From San Diego (which isn't a definite stop on our trip) to Joshua Tree National Park. -Heading NE to the old Route 66 road between Seligman and Kingman, and hopefully visiting Havasupai (?). -Finally heading back towards Flagstaff, before driving south through Sedona to return to PHX. What I'm unsure about is how to divide up time between the various places. Monument Valley looked like the kind of place it would be good to stop at briefly, but nothing longer really, as there didn't strike me as being a great deal to do there. As for motels in the area, I figure the best place to stop at there would be Mexican Hat (?). Without having the info in front of me, I seem to recall that Kayenta and Mexican Hat were the two nearest areas with motels, and MH was much cheaper. As for the Grand Canyon, how long is it reasonable to stay there? We would be looking to hike to the bottom of the Canyon, and we'd probably take the Bright Angel trail. From what I've read, it's best to hike down in one day, and hike up the next. Is two days enough time to spend in the Canyon? Personally I didn't feel there was as much to do/see here as in Yosemite, and I figured two days might be enough to cover it. Comments..? I'd imagine 3/4 days would be good for Yosemite. Probably check out Yosemite Valley, and then hike to the other areas, such as Tuolomne Meadows. As for Death Valley, all I anticipate here would be a quick walk from the car to get some photos, possibly see Badlands, and then move on. I'd imagine the intense heat would make anything else pretty uncomfortable really. Sound about right...? I don't know a huge amount about Zion National Park, although I do know there's an abundance of other NP's nearby - Bryce, Canyonlands, Arches, etc. How long would be a reasonable time to spend in Zion, and would it be worthwhile changing the itinerary to visit these nearby NP's? If we could just visit one of the others, which should we plump for..? I also don't entirely understand the situation regarding cars in National Parks. Regarding Yosemite, its my understanding that we could drive in, and park somewhere in the Valley, e.g. a car park near Curry Village. Are these car parks free? What is the maximum parking duration? As for the Grand Canyon, I recall reading that a westward drive is shut off in the summer months, but an eastward drive yields some parking places. Do we just park the car and set off hiking? Is it that simply? Absolute 'beginner's advice' for what to do regarding cars in National Parks would be much appreciated, as would any comments on the plan as a whole! Cheers Peter |
#5
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
Check out what the extra cost would be to hire the car in one place and drop
it somewhere else. As far as the air fare is concerned it isn't an issue, they simply take half of one round trip, half the other and add them together; you pay no premium. The car will probably attract a one way fee but (a) different car hire companies have different fees (b) the direction of the one way can make a difference (I don't remember the details but it used to be the case that if you went one way between LA and SF there was a fee and if you went the other there wasn't!). I paid USD250 for Seattle to San Francisco and USD100.00 for Charlotte to Washington DC some years ago. If you begin, or end, in San Francisco you won't need a car. Public transport in San Francisco is good - http://www.sfmuni.com and http://www.transitinfo.org/index.asp . In fact I would go so far as to say a car is a bad thing in San Francisco; it will cost you to park for a start. Don't rush your trip. Take it easy and see more of less than less of more. The first couple of times I went to the US I planned enormous itineraries and came back shattered and then had to go back to see the things I missed! Unlike the UK you don't need to use motorways to go A-B at a reasonable speed (what am I saying about UK motorways?!). As such, consider US60 via Globe and Show Low to go from Phoenix to the Petrified Forest. Show Low has motels. Then kink out to Window Rock on your way north to Monument Valley and don't miss Canyon de Chelley (oh while I think of it www.nps.gov for National Park and Monument information). Once at Monument Valley there are motels at the southern entrance (Kayenta). Don't know about further north. Consider a side trip to 4 corners (tacky but it IS the only place in the US where 4 states meet at the same point) and then stop at Mesa Verde National Park, the dwellings are well worth a visit. The Durango and Silverton railway could be likened to a longer Bluebell Line but with the kind of locos and rolling stock you see in cowboy movies and mountain scenery to die for. Moving on in your proposal once you get off 395 and onto the Tioga Pass road I don't believe there are any motels. It's some years since I went that way but I think there's some kind of tented accommodation at Toulomne Meadows but check the NPS site for details. Oh, and by the way, book any accommodation IN National Parks in advance. Places like Yosemite and the Grand Canyon fill months in advance - Phantom Ranch (the bunkhouse and campground at the bottom of the Canyon) fills much longer in advance; you can sometimes get last minute cancellations, but don't count on it. When I walked to Phantom I arrived, spent a night on the rim, walked down Kaibab trail, spent the night, walked up Bright Angel and spent another night before moving on. Seemed about right to me. First time I did it I didn't have a car, second time one person decided not to hike so she looked after the car. The East drive is an actual road (towards Tuba City) so it (so far) has remained open. But the west drive became so clogged with traffic the road was closed last I heard and they run shuttle buses instead. The NPS site is your best source, in my opinion. Slightly off tack I tried to book Yellowstone last September about 2 weeks before I got there and the only thing I was offered was of the order of USD300/night! Had to stay in one of the tourist towns just outside the park. It's one of the things I find frustrating about touring the US. Generally, finding accommodation "on the fly" is easy. However, the National Parks are a different kettle of fish and booking them in advance begins to mean booking the whole trip. Also, consider booking San Francisco. It isn't just a tourist town. Conventions can fill things up. If you do one thing in SF go to Alacatraz - book in advance (again!) http://www.blueandgoldfleet.com/alca...er_service.htm Summer in the desert can be hot and dry. It's very different to the heat we have in the UK. Drink lots of water. Even sitting in an air conditioned car can drain fluid from you. Drink like your life depends on it (it does!). Hiking consumes even more fluid. Temperatures in the bottom of the Canyon can exceed 100F. -- ***** *****The "return to" address embedded in this mail is wrong as an antispam measure. Please address new mails or replies to edwarddotharrison1atbtinternetdotcom replacing dot with a . and at with an @***** ***** |
#6
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
"Graham Harrison" wrote in message ... Check out what the extra cost would be to hire the car in one place and drop it somewhere else. As far as the air fare is concerned it isn't an issue, they simply take half of one round trip, half the other and add them together; you pay no premium. The car will probably attract a one way fee but (a) different car hire companies have different fees (b) the direction of the one way can make a difference (I don't remember the details but it used to be the case that if you went one way between LA and SF there was a fee and if you went the other there wasn't!). I paid USD250 for Seattle to San Francisco and USD100.00 for Charlotte to Washington DC some years ago. If you begin, or end, in San Francisco you won't need a car. Public transport in San Francisco is good - http://www.sfmuni.com and http://www.transitinfo.org/index.asp . In fact I would go so far as to say a car is a bad thing in San Francisco; it will cost you to park for a start. Don't rush your trip. Take it easy and see more of less than less of more. The first couple of times I went to the US I planned enormous itineraries and came back shattered and then had to go back to see the things I missed! Unlike the UK you don't need to use motorways to go A-B at a reasonable speed (what am I saying about UK motorways?!). As such, consider US60 via Globe and Show Low to go from Phoenix to the Petrified Forest. Show Low has motels. Then kink out to Window Rock on your way north to Monument Valley and don't miss Canyon de Chelley (oh while I think of it www.nps.gov for National Park and Monument information). Once at Monument Valley there are motels at the southern entrance (Kayenta). Don't know about further north. Consider a side trip to 4 corners (tacky but it IS the only place in the US where 4 states meet at the same point) and then stop at Mesa Verde National Park, the dwellings are well worth a visit. The Durango and Silverton railway could be likened to a longer Bluebell Line but with the kind of locos and rolling stock you see in cowboy movies and mountain scenery to die for. Moving on in your proposal once you get off 395 and onto the Tioga Pass road I don't believe there are any motels. It's some years since I went that way but I think there's some kind of tented accommodation at Toulomne Meadows but check the NPS site for details. Oh, and by the way, book any accommodation IN National Parks in advance. Places like Yosemite and the Grand Canyon fill months in advance - Phantom Ranch (the bunkhouse and campground at the bottom of the Canyon) fills much longer in advance; you can sometimes get last minute cancellations, but don't count on it. When I walked to Phantom I arrived, spent a night on the rim, walked down Kaibab trail, spent the night, walked up Bright Angel and spent another night before moving on. Seemed about right to me. First time I did it I didn't have a car, second time one person decided not to hike so she looked after the car. The East drive is an actual road (towards Tuba City) so it (so far) has remained open. But the west drive became so clogged with traffic the road was closed last I heard and they run shuttle buses instead. The NPS site is your best source, in my opinion. Slightly off tack I tried to book Yellowstone last September about 2 weeks before I got there and the only thing I was offered was of the order of USD300/night! Had to stay in one of the tourist towns just outside the park. It's one of the things I find frustrating about touring the US. Generally, finding accommodation "on the fly" is easy. However, the National Parks are a different kettle of fish and booking them in advance begins to mean booking the whole trip. Also, consider booking San Francisco. It isn't just a tourist town. Conventions can fill things up. If you do one thing in SF go to Alacatraz - book in advance (again!) http://www.blueandgoldfleet.com/alca...er_service.htm Summer in the desert can be hot and dry. It's very different to the heat we have in the UK. Drink lots of water. Even sitting in an air conditioned car can drain fluid from you. Drink like your life depends on it (it does!). Hiking consumes even more fluid. Temperatures in the bottom of the Canyon can exceed 100F. -- ***** *****The "return to" address embedded in this mail is wrong as an antispam measure. Please address new mails or replies to edwarddotharrison1atbtinternetdotcom replacing dot with a . and at with an @***** ***** Thanks for the very detailed response! Regarding a one-way trip, I wasn't aware that it wasn't prohibitively expensive with flights - I thought they jumped up justas much as the car prices do, so if its just an average of the two flights then that might be ok. Having said that, I was on the phone to Avis, and they said it would be another £200 to drop the car off in a different place. I guess it means balancing up the increased cost against potentially greater flexibility. Having said that, I really want to do the Highway 1 Drive, and I also want to see the National Parks in Utah, and also Vegas, and the two differing areas are perhaps better suited to a round trip, beginning and ending in either PHX or SFO. Point taken about transport in San Francisco, I'm assuming the cablecars there are pretty reliable then? I guess the only thing we'd miss out on by not having a car is the Crookedest Street in the World Having said that however, is it feasible to travel from San Francisco Airport to central downtown easily with public transport? The cheapest motels all seem to be located near SFO, so if we went out to town in the evening, would it be relatively easy (and cheap-ish) to simply hire a taxi back to the motels near SFO? I'll need to read up on Mesa Verde, and a few other areas you and other people have mentioned that I'm not familiar with. I suppose its worthwhile checking out Four Corners for the novelty value, probably a quick stop-off in the same vein as Monument Valley will be really. I'm assuming with the Durango railway there is a car park provided, and the train trip is circular? Could make a nice break from driving while still providing a lot of eye candy. Regarding accommodation in National Parks, a lot of it looks very expensive, with the exception of the tent cabins in Curry Village. I'd imagine we might spent a night there, and then camp out for a few nights. Do we need to book campsites up in advance? Or is it only dedicated accommodation that sells out very early? Somewhat unrelated, but it seems that all cars come with the standard 'AM/FM radio'. Is it possible to simply affix a standard UK tape/cd player in the bay, and use that for the journey instead? Or are we stuck with simply what is on the radio? For driving such long distances, it would certainly be quite useful to do this. Have heard good things about Alcatraz, any idea how late we could potentially leave bookings before we're in real jeopardy of not finding any? I really need to plan out a timeframe for my journey soon enough that I can work out what period I'm likely to be in San Francisco. Thanks for all the advice Peter |
#7
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
"Ken" wrote in message ... "Peter Ibrahim" wrote in : How long do you estimate the 395 drive from Vegas to Yosemite to be? I recommend driving up 395 from Death Valley and spending the night in Mammoth Lakes (lots of motels and restaurants) or Bishop (closer to Death Valley, but fewer accomodations). The next day, visit Mono Lake and Bodie, then head up to Tuolumne Meadows in the afternoon. Spend at least 3 nights (preferably more) in Yosemite. BTW - there are 2 nice sequoia groves in Yosemite. Try to visit at least one of them. Private cars are not allowed in Zion National Park and Devils Postpile National Monument (near Mammoth Lakes) except to access accomodations inside the park. The more popular parks usually have shuttle bus systems (sometimes free, sometimes not) that are usually more convenient than driving. Long term parking is free inside the parks (after you pay the park admission fee). See www.nps.gov for specifics on each park. Thanks for the tips Ken, glad you've explained the private vehicle system in NPs. I'll read up on exactly which towns/areas Zion operates a shuttle bus to. Checked out the NPS website a few days ago, but I find it pales to a lot of the unofficial websites - DesertUSA.com and AmericanSouthWest.net have a lot of information that feels more suited for first time NP visitors. Still, found out about the NP Pass from the official website, and I'll definitely take advantage of that. It does state however that it allows for entry for the whole vehicle when the NP has a 'per vehicle' fee, but only admits you/your spouse/etc. when park operates a 'per person' fee. From what I can see most of the parks I'm looking at operate a per vehicle fee, so it should be a big moneysaver. Ah yes, I remember reading a bit about Bishop online. Will check out the prices in Mammoth Lakes and see which is cheaper, the extra distance shouldn't be a problem as we don't plan on spending too much time outside the car within Death Valley! Thanks for the advice Peter |
#8
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
"Julie" wrote in message ... You don't include Bryce NP on your list. I would definitely go there also. It is spectacular. Julie Bryce was one of my 'possibles', along with Canyonlands and Arches, that I'm considering fitting in as well. Have you been to the latter two as well? Any opinions on them? |
#9
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
How long do you estimate the 395 drive from Vegas to Yosemite to be?
Using the route I detailed earlier, I had it as 132mi (3hr 12) from Vegas to Death Valley, and a further 340mi (8hr 23) to Yosemite (using MSN Maps). The slightly thorny issue with that area of the itinerary was the fact that there wasn't much choice of where to stop at - I seem to recall there were only a few towns along the route, Lee Vining and Beatty being two I remember. Is finding a motel to stop over at easier along the Tioga Pass...? Your driving times are pretty liberal....most Americans on long haul highways drive closer to 70mph...(sometimes more). One poster suggested Mammoth area for lodging...thats good, as is Lee Vining or Bishop. Otherwise there is nothing on that side of the Sierras. Nothing over Tioga Pass. That road is only open in the summer anyway. If you want to stay in yosemite you need to make your reservations wayyyy ahead of time. Staying outside of Yosemite in the summer is also a challenge if you haven't made reservations. It is a very popular area and summer brings families and tourists galore! (Personally, I would suggest late May or early June for this trip.) |
#10
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Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]
"Julie" wrote
You don't include Bryce NP on your list. I would definitely go there also. It is spectacular. From: "Peter Ibrahim" Bryce was one of my 'possibles', along with Canyonlands and Arches, that I'm considering fitting in as well. Have you been to the latter two as well? Any opinions on them? Bryce is very close to Zion and north rim of the Grand Canyon, yet each is radically different and certainly worth a separate visit since you're in the area. Definitely "do" Bryce, even if just for an afternoon and the next morning. Besides, it's about 8,400 ft and much cooler than some of the other hot-spots on your list. As for Canyonlands and Arches, I think a 2-3 day trip to Moab would be one of the highlights of your trip. You mentioned going to Monument Valley ... Moab is about 2.5 hours drive north of MV and definitely worth the trip. Again, both Arches and Canyonlands are spectacular and radically different from each other and from Zion, Bryce, GC, Monument Valley etc. Moab has a slightly funky atmosphere as well, with all the river running trips and mountain bikers giving it a bit of an interesting edge. Try Eddie McStiff's Brew Pub for a meal and a beer at the end of the day. Definitely go to Moab, then head west to Bryce, Zion, north rim, then to California. One other interesting side trip in the MV area is to Canyon de Chelley, fortress of the Navajo. Maybe 2 hours drive east/south of MV. It's easy to combine a trip here with one to the Painted Desert (which you also mentioned). |
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