DC Metro Interconnects

"Keith F. Lynch" wrote:

Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson wrote:

This is gravy because the Centreville-Tysons spur would involve
a separate platform north of WFC station, in the yard, elevated
above the yard lead that connects the middle track of WFC station
to the Dulles line via the Dulles-WFC yard connector.

Would this also involve an *exit* on the north side of WFC? There is
currently no way to enter or leave the station on the north. People
living *adjacent* to the station to its north have to walk *miles* to
catch a train.

Don't ask me, you're the VA resident. If it were me, sure... and a
direct connection to a Rt. 7/Rt. 1 limited-stop light rail, to boot.

(Via Shirlington, NOT Route 29. Route 29 is a METRO route... Metro
to Annandale, cf. http://earthops.net/purple-line/brown.html )

It seems to me that it would be far easier to fix this than to extend
tracks miles and miles into the exurbs or countryside. Assuming the
goal is to serve as much populated area as possible as cheaply as
possible.

No, the purpose is to serve customers, customers being drivers,
good citizens who have paid their dues for a MetroCard and the
right to be tracked by TIA in the future. Pedestrians are vagrants.

Oh yeah... no tourists or visitors or anyone who might have a
legitimate reason to drive to an outlying Metro station are
allowed. No more "drive to DC, park at Greenbelt, take the
Metro to visit the city..." SmartCard holders (car commuters) only!

Nobody but me seems to have noticed or discussed this.

--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Mt. Pleasant, one of the most liberal neighborhoods in the
country, ANC just passed a law asking the police to detain
and question "persons of a suspicious character... who
don't look like they belong" in a given area. According
to Washpost.

"Keith F. Lynch" wrote:
It seems to me that it would be far easier to fix this than to
extend tracks miles and miles into the exurbs or countryside.
Assuming the goal is to serve as much populated area as possible
as cheaply as possible.

Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson wrote:
No, the purpose is to serve customers, customers being drivers, good
citizens who have paid their dues for a MetroCard and the right to
be tracked by TIA in the future. Pedestrians are vagrants.

Huh? About half the stations don't have parking lots. All stations
are accessible to pedestrians. You can ride without a SmarTrip card.
And there's no requirement to register a SmarTrip card, in which case,
if you paid cash for it, all they are tracking is card number 214365,
and they have no idea what name goes with that card.

Oh yeah... no tourists or visitors or anyone who might have a
legitimate reason to drive to an outlying Metro station are allowed.
No more "drive to DC, park at Greenbelt, take the Metro to visit the
city..." SmartCard holders (car commuters) only!

SmarTrip cards won't be nandatory for people parking at Metro stations
until there are SmarTrip card dispensers at every Metro station
parking lot. Yes, it's an annoyance that tourists will have to pay an
*extra* five dollars. Once. But that's far from saying they're not
allowed. Also, if I'm reading the press release correctly, parking
will remain free on weekends, implying that no SmarTrip card is
required then.

If anything, it sounds like they're trying to *discourage* people from
parking at Metro stations, and would prefer that people get to them on
foot, by bike, or by bus.

Mt. Pleasant, one of the most liberal neighborhoods in the country,
ANC just passed a law asking the police to detain and question
"persons of a suspicious character... who don't look like they
belong" in a given area. According to Washpost.

The closest thing I can find to that on their website is:

... the District's Mt. Pleasant neighborhood, where the five-member
Advisory Neighborhood Commission narrowly adopted a resolution, 3
to 2, asking the police to take aim at everything from assaults and
animal cruelty to littering, double parking, even cursing. ...

That may be unreasonable, but it's far from stopping and questioning
people who are just walking on the sidewalk.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

"Keith F. Lynch" wrote:

"Keith F. Lynch" wrote:
It seems to me that it would be far easier to fix this than to
extend tracks miles and miles into the exurbs or countryside.
Assuming the goal is to serve as much populated area as possible
as cheaply as possible.

Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson wrote:
No, the purpose is to serve customers, customers being drivers, good
citizens who have paid their dues for a MetroCard and the right to
be tracked by TIA in the future. Pedestrians are vagrants.

Huh? About half the stations don't have parking lots. All stations
are accessible to pedestrians.

I was being facetious, in defense of your original point. And on
this secondary point, you are about the only person in the DC area
who considers stations like Franconia and Vandorn pedestrian-friendly.

It militates against your advocacy for more suburban metro coverage;
e.g. I've repeatedly cited the possibility of a Brown Line on the
original proposed route, extended to serve Annandale and loop around
to the north or south parallel to the Beltway; to no avail in terms
of positive feedback here. Obviously if the one or two militant
anti-car people in NOVA don't want such a line it's not likely anyone
else does, either.

You can ride without a SmarTrip card.
And there's no requirement to register a SmarTrip card, in which case,
if you paid cash for it, all they are tracking is card number 214365,
and they have no idea what name goes with that card.

You're arguing in terms of loopholes, I'm arguing in terms of de facto
results guaranteed by what is considered practical for most people,
like MOST pedestrians (who don't want to walk two miles from their
destination station to their office in Tysons every day) or like most
tourists who DRIVE into DC (for the issue of entering DC via outlying
Metro stations would be moot otherwise; logically, the recommendation
to do so applies only to tourists who are driving in. That said, you
are right that it is a tax on these people for not having the "sense"
to go Greyhound.)

Oh yeah... no tourists or visitors or anyone who might have a
legitimate reason to drive to an outlying Metro station are allowed.
No more "drive to DC, park at Greenbelt, take the Metro to visit the
city..." SmartCard holders (car commuters) only!

SmarTrip cards won't be nandatory for people parking at Metro stations
until there are SmarTrip card dispensers at every Metro station
parking lot. Yes, it's an annoyance that tourists will have to pay an
*extra* five dollars. Once. But that's far from saying they're not
allowed. Also, if I'm reading the press release correctly, parking
will remain free on weekends, implying that no SmarTrip card is
required then.

The reality is that this requirement is the latest step in ensuring that
SmartTrip is so ubiquitous that it not only legitimizes its use as a
tracking tool, but legitimizes driving to the Metro station as the most
popular and acceptible way of utilizing the Metro system, further
dragging us down the road of a BART-like commuter system in the course
of government efforts to promote an entirely tangential homeland security
device (SmartTrip).

If anything, it sounds like they're trying to *discourage* people from
parking at Metro stations, and would prefer that people get to them on
foot, by bike, or by bus.

See my objection above, this does not apply to tourists who would have
no reason to use said stations except to park, and who have no choice
but to pay $5 or, thinking in terms of de facto practicality, drive
all the way to their hotel, which is what your type of thinking here
will result in all of them doing. The idea of trying to discourage
tourists from driving to DC period is outrageous, anyway; what more
acceptible use of a car is there than a road trip from rail-free Podunk
to the nations capital?

Mt. Pleasant, one of the most liberal neighborhoods in the country,
ANC just passed a law asking the police to detain and question
"persons of a suspicious character... who don't look like they
belong" in a given area. According to Washpost.

The closest thing I can find to that on their website is:

... the District's Mt. Pleasant neighborhood, where the five-member
Advisory Neighborhood Commission narrowly adopted a resolution, 3
to 2, asking the police to take aim at everything from assaults and
animal cruelty to littering, double parking, even cursing. ...

That may be unreasonable, but it's far from stopping and questioning
people who are just walking on the sidewalk.

You need to read the article cited in the Post (Sunday, Outlook).
They quoted a Mt. Pleasant restaurateur for his take on the rule
in question and that was the quoted directive (and not the first
time I've heard tell of it.)

"Keith F. Lynch" wrote:

If anything, it sounds like they're trying to *discourage* people from
parking at Metro stations, and would prefer that people get to them on
foot, by bike, or by bus.

Wrong, The reason for the SmartCard at the parking lots is to
eliminate the handling of cash by the parking lot attendants.

If you had read the media reports you would have learned that
WMATA did an audit and found it was losing thousands of dollars
from pilferage by the employees that worked for the contractor
that was operating the parking lots.

The operation of and collecting of parking fees is the only part
of WMATA where people do cash transaction outside of there sails
offices.

--
================================================== ====================
Ever wanted one of these John R Cambron
http://205.130.220.18/~cambronj/wmata/ or Hebron MD USA
http://www.chesapeake.net/~cambronj/wmata/
================================================== ====================

John R Cambron * wrote:
If you had read the media reports you would have learned that WMATA
did an audit and found it was losing thousands of dollars from
pilferage by the employees that worked for the contractor that was
operating the parking lots.

Millions. There are, of course, ways to prevent such pilferage that
don't involve abolishing cash. Safeway seems to manage it.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson wrote:
And on this secondary point, you are about the only person in the DC
area who considers stations like Franconia and Vandorn pedestrian-friendly.

I assume Van Dorn is pedestrian friendly, but I'll admit I've never
been there. I've walked between the Franconia/Springfield station and
Springfield mall about a dozen times, with no problem. I will admit
I did once get lost in the Greenbelt station's immense parking lot,
unable for half an hour to find any road that didn't lead either to
the Beltway or back to the station.

If you want to see something that's pedestrian UNfriendly, I recommend
walking the length of Prosperity Avenue in Fairfax County. Over
much of its length it's narrow, with heavy traffic, no sidewalks,
no shoulder, and either shrubs, fences, or a ditch keeping you from
cutting through people's yards. During heavy rain, part of it is
often under several feet of fast-moving debris-filled water.

It militates against your advocacy for more suburban metro coverage;
e.g. I've repeatedly cited the possibility of a Brown Line on the
original proposed route, extended to serve Annandale and loop around
to the north or south parallel to the Beltway; to no avail in terms
of positive feedback here.

I may not have commented on that specific proposal, but I've often
said there should be a Metro station within reasonable walking
distance of every point in the region.

Obviously if the one or two militant anti-car people in NOVA don't
want such a line it's not likely anyone else does, either.

I'm not anti-car. I'm pro-choice on transportation. I don't believe
anyone should ever be forced into an absolute reliance on any one mode.

... or like most tourists who DRIVE into DC (for the issue of
entering DC via outlying Metro stations would be moot otherwise;
logically, the recommendation to do so applies only to tourists who
are driving in. That said, you are right that it is a tax on these
people for not having the "sense" to go Greyhound.)

I figured most tourists arrive by Amtrak or by plane. Union Station
and National Airport are already on the Metro. Dulles and BWI are
finally acessible by a regular city bus. BWI is also on MARC and on
Baltimore's light rail.

And the main Greyhound terminal is adjacent to Union Station.

Sure, a tourist can bring his own car to DC, if he has one. He can
also bring his own stove to a restaurant. But both are foolish
choices.

The reality is that this requirement is the latest step in ensuring
that SmartTrip is so ubiquitous that it not only legitimizes its use
as a tracking tool,

And how can it be used as a tracking tool if people aren't required to
register it? Sure, if they arrest you they can take your card and
find out where you've been. But the same is true with a regular
farecard, and always has been.

but legitimizes driving to the Metro station as the most popular
and acceptible way of utilizing the Metro system, further dragging
us down the road of a BART-like commuter system in the course of
government efforts to promote an entirely tangential homeland
security device (SmartTrip).

I'm not familiar with BART. How does it differ from DC's Metro?

You need to read the article cited in the Post (Sunday, Outlook).
They quoted a Mt. Pleasant restaurateur for his take on the rule in
question and that was the quoted directive (and not the first time
I've heard tell of it.)

Fortunately, he's not in charge. The police know better than to
arrest people for looking like they don't belong. They've been sued
enough times for the lesson to sink in.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

"Keith F. Lynch" wrote:

Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson wrote:
And on this secondary point, you are about the only person in the DC
area who considers stations like Franconia and Vandorn pedestrian-friendly.

I assume Van Dorn is pedestrian friendly, but I'll admit I've never
been there. I've walked between the Franconia/Springfield station and
Springfield mall about a dozen times, with no problem. I will admit
I did once get lost in the Greenbelt station's immense parking lot,
unable for half an hour to find any road that didn't lead either to
the Beltway or back to the station.

Van Dorn Street

Right across Eisenhower Avenue is a UPS depot, Alexandria Cities
incinerator and a little further north is a bunch of townhouses,
to the east on Eisenhower Avenue is a lot of light industry
warehouses. Both sides of Eisenhower Avenue have paved sidewalks
to the east all the way to oldtown.

Greenbelt

If you had gone further south along the access road you would have
ended up on Cherry Lane, To the right is a large garden apartment
complex, outside of the beltway is a United States District Court
and a number of office buildings. Going north down the pedestrian
tunnel that leads to the MARC platforms on the north side of the
CSX tracks is the Hollywood section of Collage Park.

If you want to see something that's pedestrian UNfriendly, I recommend
walking the length of Prosperity Avenue in Fairfax County. Over
much of its length it's narrow, with heavy traffic, no sidewalks,
no shoulder, and either shrubs, fences, or a ditch keeping you from
cutting through people's yards. During heavy rain, part of it is
often under several feet of fast-moving debris-filled water.

It militates against your advocacy for more suburban metro coverage;
e.g. I've repeatedly cited the possibility of a Brown Line on the
original proposed route, extended to serve Annandale and loop around
to the north or south parallel to the Beltway; to no avail in terms
of positive feedback here.

I may not have commented on that specific proposal, but I've often
said there should be a Metro station within reasonable walking
distance of every point in the region.

Obviously if the one or two militant anti-car people in NOVA don't
want such a line it's not likely anyone else does, either.

I'm not anti-car. I'm pro-choice on transportation. I don't believe
anyone should ever be forced into an absolute reliance on any one mode.

... or like most tourists who DRIVE into DC (for the issue of
entering DC via outlying Metro stations would be moot otherwise;
logically, the recommendation to do so applies only to tourists who
are driving in. That said, you are right that it is a tax on these
people for not having the "sense" to go Greyhound.)

I figured most tourists arrive by Amtrak or by plane. Union Station
and National Airport are already on the Metro. Dulles and BWI are
finally acessible by a regular city bus. BWI is also on MARC and on
Baltimore's light rail.

And the main Greyhound terminal is adjacent to Union Station.

Sure, a tourist can bring his own car to DC, if he has one. He can
also bring his own stove to a restaurant. But both are foolish
choices.

The reality is that this requirement is the latest step in ensuring
that SmartTrip is so ubiquitous that it not only legitimizes its use
as a tracking tool,

And how can it be used as a tracking tool if people aren't required to
register it? Sure, if they arrest you they can take your card and
find out where you've been. But the same is true with a regular
farecard, and always has been.

but legitimizes driving to the Metro station as the most popular
and acceptible way of utilizing the Metro system, further dragging
us down the road of a BART-like commuter system in the course of
government efforts to promote an entirely tangential homeland
security device (SmartTrip).

I'm not familiar with BART. How does it differ from DC's Metro?

You need to read the article cited in the Post (Sunday, Outlook).
They quoted a Mt. Pleasant restaurateur for his take on the rule in
question and that was the quoted directive (and not the first time
I've heard tell of it.)

Fortunately, he's not in charge. The police know better than to
arrest people for looking like they don't belong. They've been sued
enough times for the lesson to sink in.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

--
================================================== ====================
Ever wanted one of these John R Cambron
http://205.130.220.18/~cambronj/wmata/ or Hebron MD USA
http://www.chesapeake.net/~cambronj/wmata/
================================================== ====================

OK, as a long time DC Tourist, we always drive, it is much cheaper than any
other way for 3 or 4 people. In addition we always use a "fringe" hotel,
cheaper than downtown and no parking fee. Our current preferred location
seem to be Tyson's Corner. There are a couple of Metro stations with in
easy drive of the hotel complex out there. It seems to me that the parking
is oriented towards commuters, no charge on a weekend, no pay after 10:00
pm. It is quite a long ride back out of town but it gets us off our feet
for a while, not a bad thing after walking the Mall, etc for 6 or 7 miles
and supper.
Doug.
..
"Keith F. Lynch" wrote in message
...
I figured most tourists arrive by Amtrak or by plane. Union Station
and National Airport are already on the Metro. Dulles and BWI are
finally acessible by a regular city bus. BWI is also on MARC and on
Baltimore's light rail.

And the main Greyhound terminal is adjacent to Union Station.

Sure, a tourist can bring his own car to DC, if he has one. He can
also bring his own stove to a restaurant. But both are foolish
choices.

On 23 Mar 2004 23:27:46 -0500, "Keith F. Lynch"
wrote:

John R Cambron * wrote:
If you had read the media reports you would have learned that WMATA
did an audit and found it was losing thousands of dollars from
pilferage by the employees that worked for the contractor that was
operating the parking lots.

Millions. There are, of course, ways to prevent such pilferage that
don't involve abolishing cash. Safeway seems to manage it.

You REALLY expect the DC Metro system to implement a RATIONAL,
CONSUMER-DRIVEN system ?

You must be on some really GREAT drugs. . . .The same DC Metro that,
until recently, kept its' bathrooms locked, and is locking them again
? The same one that charges peak fares for non-peak service ?

Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson wrote:
but legitimizes driving to the Metro station as the most popular
and acceptible way of utilizing the Metro system, further dragging
us down the road of a BART-like commuter system in the course of
government efforts to promote an entirely tangential homeland
security device (SmartTrip).

I'm not familiar with BART. How does it differ from DC's Metro?

I'm not sure about the salient differences, but as a one-time BART commuter
(and a BART user as recently as three weeks ago) there's no problem paying
with cash for a paper ticket just like DC Metro.

miguel
--
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