From janitors to managers, Miami airport employees are watching you

chuck_whealton wrote:

They're two different things, John. The airport is a public place with
many people using it. You can call me an idiot all you want. I have
no problem with it. If I do, I can just take a different mode of
transportation.

OK, what about walking on the street. Do you care if you are searched
for no reason or if cameras watch your every move? After all, this would
help stop criminals, and as long as you aren't one of them, you have
nothing to fear.

In article , mrtravel wrote:
chuck_whealton wrote:

They're two different things, John. The airport is a public place with
many people using it. You can call me an idiot all you want. I have
no problem with it. If I do, I can just take a different mode of
transportation.

OK, what about walking on the street. Do you care if you are searched
for no reason or if cameras watch your every move? After all, this would
help stop criminals, and as long as you aren't one of them, you have
nothing to fear.

Being searched for no reason I would oppose, but I sure as hell favor
the cameras!

Video-record every square foot every 1/30 second of all public spaces,
streets and highways and sidewalks and outdoor areas of public
accomodations, and what happens:
The gigatonnage of data will be so overwhelming that nobody is going
to look at much of anything until notified that a target is worth looking
at at a specific time and place.

I do have the concern that some will be targeted for political purposes,
but that will merely make opponents of those in power less able to get
away with crimes than those who are not opponents of those in power.
Those falsely arrested as opposed to guilty but targeted will merely need
to subpoena adequate copies of footage by time, date and area to show that
they are innocent. I say put up enough monitors for viewing and hire some
police officers of all races and demographic factors and political
leanings to watch what's going on and then criminals won't gain much
advantage by having whatever color skin or whatever!

- Don Klipstein )

mrtravel wrote:
Yeah, I can see how wanting to mail alocohol or perfume might make that
person a terrorist.

The alcohol or perfume is the stuff I'm *allowed* to act on. I don't
have any training on how to act to people who mail their passports to
foreign countries and then want to have them mailed back. Considering
people mail them in books and newspapers so the other country's
government doesn't know what they're doing, that doesn't exactly make
me feel good about staring face to face with a possible terrorist.

I still remember at my old outlet when I was only a month or two fresh
on the job, and this guy (don't remember his nationality, and probably
shouldn't try, because it's typecasting), mailed his passport to his
brother who was going to "use it" then send it back to him.

He later got a Canadian Passport... it's pretty scary if you ask me. He
was in a tizzy when he got the parcel notice at his door that the mail
man tried to deliver his letter but he wasn't home. He showed up every
two hours and freaked on me when I hadn't time to open the mailbag and
look for his letter yet, because he'd been waiting "eight hours
already" since the mailman came.

I don't see this nearly as often, or anything close working where I do
now. But like I said, I've seen a lot of odd things.

I talked to my supervisor who said, "there's nothing we can do", and I
talked to a mail rep who told me, "what's suspicious about that, his
brother was borrowing his passport." HELLO PEOPLE??? An identity
document that you need to carry with you, that shouldn't be travelling
back and forth in the mail?? Should I tell you people how many
passports my customers mailed to other people who were in OTHER
countries? Like how did the guy get to whereever WITHOUT his passport,
and now he NEEDS it to come to Canada??

Oh, and just before you folks jump on me... I called Customs and
Immigration in Canada, told them what I do for a living, and told them
what sorts of things I see, and asked, "what do I do about this?" And
they pretty much told me there's nothing I can do, unless I know what
the crime being committed is. No one cared, not my boss, not people who
represent Canada post, and not Immigration people who take phone calls.
Consider this was happening in 2003, with all this heightened security,
it would have been nice to have been trained on suspcious behaviour.
We've only received training on money laundering and proceeds of
terrorism THIS YEAR, 2006. It's kind of happening a little late if you
ask me. Maybe in 2010, we'll start getting memos about how people
shouldn't be mailing their passports abroad to other people.

S.

Sapphyre wrote:
mrtravel wrote:

Yeah, I can see how wanting to mail alocohol or perfume might make that
person a terrorist.


The alcohol or perfume is the stuff I'm *allowed* to act on. I don't
have any training on how to act to people who mail their passports to
foreign countries and then want to have them mailed back. Considering
people mail them in books and newspapers so the other country's
government doesn't know what they're doing, that doesn't exactly make
me feel good about staring face to face with a possible terrorist.

See, good thing you didn't report them.
There is nothing odd or illegal about mailing someone's passport to
another country.
They mail them inside of things for the same reason you wouldn't send
cash to someone without making sure it isn't visible through the
envelope. It has to do with theft. They don't want people to know what
they are sending, because they don't want it stolen. I have a stupid
question. If they were hidden inside of books or newspapers, how did you
know what they were?


I still remember at my old outlet when I was only a month or two fresh
on the job, and this guy (don't remember his nationality, and probably
shouldn't try, because it's typecasting), mailed his passport to his
brother who was going to "use it" then send it back to him.

Maybe his brother was going to use it to get him a visa.


He later got a Canadian Passport...

I still don't see the point?
Canada has immigrants that become citizens and get passports.

it's pretty scary if you ask me. He
was in a tizzy when he got the parcel notice at his door that the mail
man tried to deliver his letter but he wasn't home. He showed up every
two hours and freaked on me when I hadn't time to open the mailbag and
look for his letter yet, because he'd been waiting "eight hours
already" since the mailman came.

Yes, he was afraid the passport would get stolen.
In some countries, replacing a lost/stolen passport can be a problem,
especially if you don't live in the country.


I don't see this nearly as often, or anything close working where I do
now. But like I said, I've seen a lot of odd things.

There is nothing odd about hiding your valuables.



I talked to my supervisor who said, "there's nothing we can do", and I
talked to a mail rep who told me, "what's suspicious about that, his
brother was borrowing his passport." HELLO PEOPLE??? An identity
document that you need to carry with you, that shouldn't be travelling
back and forth in the mail?? Should I tell you people how many
passports my customers mailed to other people who were in OTHER
countries? Like how did the guy get to whereever WITHOUT his passport,
and now he NEEDS it to come to Canada??

Let's assume the guy is from Russia. He uses his Russian passport to get
to Russia. If this was the US and he was also a US citizen, he MUST use
his US Passport to enter the country. I would guess that Canada has
similar rules. I can imaginee how much manpower would be wasted if we
sent investigators after anyone you saw mailing a passport.
It sounds like you haven't a clue about what is normal or abnormal when
it comes to immigrants.

mrtravel wrote:
See, good thing you didn't report them.
There is nothing odd or illegal about mailing someone's passport to
another country.

One of the postmasters thought it was an odd question I had, and said
that a passport should be renewed by the consulate within Canada, not
mailed off. I didn't report people because I don't know if what they're
doing is against the law. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. If it's a
legal thing to do, surely some people are doing it for illegal reasons.

They mail them inside of things for the same reason you wouldn't send
cash to someone without making sure it isn't visible through the
envelope. It has to do with theft. They don't want people to know what
they are sending, because they don't want it stolen.

Fair enough, but there's enough Canadian passports being mailed around
Canada that no one needs to steal one from Iran. There are legitimate
reasons to send them, yes I know this. People frequently mail them to
Buffalo to renew visas and such, these are foreign passports. Why
someone is lending is passport to his brother, that one I will never
know the real reason for, and it's not my place to ask.

I have a stupid
question. If they were hidden inside of books or newspapers, how did you
know what they were?

That's not a stupid question if you're just reading the story, if you
worked at my counter it would be obvious. Because people trust me
(because it's a post office), everyone in the world brings in their
stuff without envelopes, boxes, addresses, etc, and shows me what
they're doing, so they can have the "best envelope for it". I've seen
Canada PR cards mailed to relatives abroad who left without them, and
need them to return because we passed a new rule that wouldn't allow
them to return without them (they submitted the paperwork but didn't
get the card before leaving Canada on an extended visit). We don't have
such strict rules here for Permanent Residents, when you're landed,
you're landed. We don't give advance parole and all that, but now we
require the PR card for our residents to return. It's an identification
thing, apparently those landing papers can be forged a little too
easily (and it's not hard to stick a new photo on one either).

I've seen it all... One guy told me he wanted to mail $1000 US cash to
his relatives. I insisted he buy a money order. One rule we had at my
former post office (myself and my superior), was that we would not
allow people to mail cash and leave it inside the post office with us.
If it goes missing, we'll have to deal with the customer getting angry,
and we don't want to be blamed. It was my job to insist anyone doing
something stupid like that buy a money order, or sell them an envelope
and tell them to stick it in a mailbox elsewhere, so we wouldn't be
responsible. I never cared much for those who were only sending five or
ten dollars, but I've seen more than once, people sending amounts of
$400 or more. This happened way more at my old post office with all the
immigrants in the neighbourhood. Many of them were supporting family
elsewhere, and did not know how to send money around aside from cash. I
guess it was partly my job to teach them, because they kept coming back
to buy more money orders.

Maybe his brother was going to use it to get him a visa.

I have no clue... I didn't ask about that, and the guy gave me the
creeps from the get go. I know you make it seem like if I reported all
these people, I'd be reporting like ten people a day, which is probably
true, because we do send about 10 Chinese (PRC) passports to Buffalo
Immigration daily for student visas. I know we mail them around to
consulates in Canada, and perhaps consulates abroad when the country
the person needs a visa from does not have a consulate in Canada. Most
of these person uses letter A4 envelopes (the kind for photos, because
I encourage people to buy those for documents), and send it by
registered mail. We sell most packaging supplies, and in my household,
I may be one of the only households that doesn't need to buy that
immediately when I want to mail something. People who do frequent
shipping or are just self-sufficient in having that stuff around a lot
are probably the same, but most students don't even have envelopes to
mail things, let alone stamps or other stuff. I sell more overpriced
envelopes than I care to admit, and sadly as it is, most people have NO
CLUE how to mail something anymore. Those who do, become my favourite
customers rather rapidly. Those who know how to mail their stuff, well
let's just say I have no clue what they're mailing, I just ask if it
has dangerous goods, that's about it.

Yes, he was afraid the passport would get stolen.
In some countries, replacing a lost/stolen passport can be a problem,
especially if you don't live in the country.

He got a notice to come to the post office and pick it up on "Tuesday
after 1 p.m." He showed up Monday at 3, then at 6, then Tuesday at 10
a.m., then again at 12:30 and FREAKED OUT because it wasn't there yet.
Why would he be afraid it got stolen, because he didn't read the card?
He waited at my outlet until 1 p.m., and continued to freak out because
my mail bag was late. I called in to check, just because I wanted him
to calm down, when it got there around 2, he got his passport, which
was in the bag. I realize that it's not his fault the bag was late, but
the fact he kept coming in every few hours before the time on the card
"available after", well that just made me nervous.

I don't see this nearly as often, or anything close working where I do
now. But like I said, I've seen a lot of odd things.
There is nothing odd about hiding your valuables.

I've still seen odd things and even heard odd questions. One girl
wanted to mail something to her ex-boyfriend, but wanted me to postmark
it from some other city (not even possible) so he wouldn't know that
she still lived in the same city as him. It didn't matter, I just said
that's not possible, and as soon as the tracking system picks it up or
it goes to main sort for the stamps to be cancelled (because the label
shows all), it will show the city at some point. If you want it mailed
from some other place, you have to actually do that... I lived in a
major city, I realize in small towns avoid this might be easier by
using a mail drop box.

Let's assume the guy is from Russia. He uses his Russian passport to get
to Russia. If this was the US and he was also a US citizen, he MUST use
his US Passport to enter the country. I would guess that Canada has
similar rules. I can imaginee how much manpower would be wasted if we
sent investigators after anyone you saw mailing a passport.
It sounds like you haven't a clue about what is normal or abnormal when
it comes to immigrants.

He mailed his passport to his brother (passport is from where ever he
is from), and his brother sent it back to him. He told me his brother
needed it, but what that means to him, I don't know. I thought maybe it
was just being stamped for entry-exit reasons to avoid showing up as an
overstay.

In Canada, when I returned home, I showed my PR card and foreign
passport, up until recently. The only immigration procedure I went
through as an adult was naturalization, I'd been a PR for 23 years.

The point of the whole thread though, was some information or training
would be nice, so that way when we see things, we know what's normal
and what isn't. Behaviour plays a big part in it, and I didn't like a
couple of the characters I had to serve in the past, even though for
the most part, people are okay.

S.

Sapphyre wrote:

He mailed his passport to his brother (passport is from where ever he
is from), and his brother sent it back to him. He told me his brother
needed it, but what that means to him, I don't know. I thought maybe it
was just being stamped for entry-exit reasons to avoid showing up as an
overstay.

That's the point.. You don't know why.
Mailing a passport to your home country is not really an act of
terrorism, is it?


The point of the whole thread though, was some information or training
would be nice, so that way when we see things, we know what's normal
and what isn't. Behaviour plays a big part in it, and I didn't like a
couple of the characters I had to serve in the past, even though for
the most part, people are okay.

My point was that the behavior you considered to be odd was normal.
Mailing a passport between the pages of a book is not odd behavior if
you don't want the passport stolen.

Your impression that registered mail is safe to send to anywhere is also
a bit misguided. In some countries, passports to travel
internationally have higher values on the black market than people make
in a year.
Believe it or not, there are postal employees in some countries that are
not as honest as those in Canada.

mrtravel wrote:
That's the point.. You don't know why.
Mailing a passport to your home country is not really an act of
terrorism, is it?

It would be if it was done to give someone access to the US (or any
country they want to terrorize) when they would not otherwise be
admissable.

Your impression that registered mail is safe to send to anywhere is also
a bit misguided.

It's supposed to be, but there are no guarantees. I have these
customers that say they need to send something and say "I need a
guarantee it won't get lost", like we're going to hand deliver their
letter to where ever ourselves (usually it's within Canada, but still).
I tell them that tracking provides a way to make sure it got there, but
there are no guarantees. They don't get this. My answer is simply
because I cannot stop someone from stealing a mail truck and driving
off with all the mail if they choose to do so. Odds are not likely, but
it can happen. I also have no control if the letter is not properly
emptied from the parcel bag with the others, and ends up on someone's
back shelf for a period of time. Believe it or not, this has happened,
and not just once in a while. We have to check every bag we get because
someone doesn't seem competent in making sure they are empty before
tossing them back into the supplies area. (So I'm making sure bags are
empty because they often are not entirely empty??)

In some countries, passports to travel
internationally have higher values on the black market than people make
in a year.
Believe it or not, there are postal employees in some countries that are
not as honest as those in Canada.

I'm aware of this, although not specifically about passports. My mail
information is pretty much gleaned from trading coins with people who
have experience with their country's mail, and learning things from my
customers. It's odd, that people mailing to some places are very
paranoid about theft, but it's not a place where I'd deem theft to be a
problem, and people will send parcels to other places and not even
think twice about it being stolen. But it's not a country I'd count on
delivering mail properly... in some countries the difference between
city and rural may mean a lot as to how things are done.

S.

Sapphyre wrote:
mrtravel wrote:

That's the point.. You don't know why.
Mailing a passport to your home country is not really an act of
terrorism, is it?


It would be if it was done to give someone access to the US (or any
country they want to terrorize) when they would not otherwise be
admissable.

So, you would make it illegal to mail a passport?
If it is illegal to mail a passport, would that be more likely to stop a
terrorist or a non-terrorist from mailing one?
Additionally, the people you were talking about were not secretive with
you about sending the passport. Why would suggest they were trying to
hide the passport from the goverment seeing it, rather than simply being
afraid of theft? What is this, Osama's Razor?

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:50:14 GMT, mrtravel
wrote:

Sapphyre wrote:
mrtravel wrote:

That's the point.. You don't know why.
Mailing a passport to your home country is not really an act of
terrorism, is it?


It would be if it was done to give someone access to the US (or any
country they want to terrorize) when they would not otherwise be
admissable.

So, you would make it illegal to mail a passport?
If it is illegal to mail a passport, would that be more likely to stop a
terrorist or a non-terrorist from mailing one?
Additionally, the people you were talking about were not secretive with
you about sending the passport. Why would suggest they were trying to
hide the passport from the goverment seeing it, rather than simply being
afraid of theft? What is this, Osama's Razor?


Guess how the US Government normally delivers your passport?