Katrina: A response to the vultures of the left

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 00:25:07 -0400, "Planet Visitor II"
wrote:

Rubbish. We are often deceived by being told "some degree of
truth" rather than "no truth." The corrupt politician often uses
"technically correct" arguments to hide the flaws and faults that
underlie those "technically correct" comments.

As do many posters to Usenet.



************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

"Carole Allen" wrote in message ...
On 7 Sep 2005 13:49:24 -0700, "PJ O'Donovan" wrote:

Oh I know. If only bleeding heart liberals are caring.

Better a bleeding heart than none at all.

You seem to be ignorant of some basic facts in your frantic neolib
efforts to make it appear this is a "conservative" v. "liberal" issue.

There is no question that FEMA dropped the ball to a great extent.
This is evident in Brown now being taken out of the picture. But
many local authorities in New Orleans would like desperately to
cover up the greater issue of racism having been responsible for
those who were on their own because of social injustice at the most
basic local level. No White for hundreds of years gave a damn at
that level that poor Blacks could not afford the basic necessities
of survival such as a car, or even home insurance, which now
leaves them with absolutely nothing. All Whites saw Blacks as
in that region were "great Jazz musicians," "entertainment value
in their parades," and "cheap local service help." And this economic
disenfranchisement of the Black citizens of New Orleans is totally
responsible for Blacks being disproportionately impacted by the
effects of Hurricane Katrina.

And once again local authorities are expecting the federal government
to foot the bill for the racism that they engendered for hundreds of
years. And liberals will "bang the drum loudly" in their hate for
federal government, which at other times they would rant and rave
about "improper intervention by federal authorities," while ignoring the
basic issue of this long term racist issue by hoping to blame the
federal government now in place for that racism which has existed
for all those years. What they end up doing is making excuses for
the root of this catastrophe. To hide their own failures in civil
rights. Not only was local level as largely responsible for the plight
of poor Blacks in the failure to have them evacuated, but that local
level is responsible for the fact that those poor Blacks had only
various levels of government to depend upon because of an pre-existing
racism which has kept them in that condition. Whites may have
lost their homes, but they had the ability to evacuate and they had
home insurance (which may bite them in the ass anyway, as many
insurance companies are now looking closely to exclude damage
they claim as "flood damage" rather than hurricane damage, which
would require special riders on home policies which many do not
have).

Let us hope that the resurrection of New Orleans is accompanied by
a new mindset of the White residents of both New Orleans and
Louisiana, that from this tragedy a new city rises which honors
a full commitment to equal rights and equal economic opportunities.
The White citizens of New Orleans should choose to do this... not
because it is easy to overcome that mindset... but because it is
the right thing to do, however hard it is to change such a mindset.

As clean a slate as could be imagined now exists to change that
mindset. God willing... the citizens of New Orleans will seize upon
this opportunity. I can't help but relate the tragedy of New Orleans
to the words in "Bridge Over Troubled Water" -- Now that evening
falls so hard on that city, as darkness comes, and pain is all around,
the city will rise new, sailing on silver wings, and we will see that
dreams are on their way, and its time will come to "really" shine.

This is not a liberal or conservative issue.. but one which speaks to
human rights and equal respect for every human who lived or will live
again in the city of New Orleans. Anyone trying to change this into
a personal agenda of liberalism or conservatism has missed the
equal rights boat. And is the one in need of a heart.

Planet Visitor II
http://home.earthlink.net/~onetimeuse/dict.html

Planet Visitor II wrote:
"Euro" wrote in message oups.com...

PJ O'Donovan wrote:
we ALL know that you are lying
about your Australian safari
John Rennie

You are the liar. Show evidence where I claimed I went on an Australian
"safari".

You were a proven liar in your exchange with Susie concerning the Brit
Muslims celebrating 911 and you are merely again proving yourself to be
a pathological liar.

You do sound like James Noles at times.

Oh my word... And who did you sound like when you insisted that no one
need bother to help any of our species? In your words --

/quote/ "Is anyone supposed to "provide an iota of benefit for our species"?
Why should they?" /unquote/
See --
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...bac7ba10920fb7


"Providing an iota of benefit to our species" does not exactly mean
"bother to help any of our species", and the URL you provide shows
quite well that, in the context of your own words ("murderers provide
no iota of benefit to our species"), you were absolutely not meaning
anything like "coming to help".

In other words, you are once again caught red-handed lying. But then,
paraphrasing Adlai Stevenson, if you stopped lying about others, you
would stop telling the truth about yourself.

Euro

"Planet Visitor II" wrote in message
...
"Carole Allen" wrote in message
...
On 7 Sep 2005 13:49:24 -0700, "PJ O'Donovan" wrote:

Oh I know. If only bleeding heart liberals are caring.

Better a bleeding heart than none at all.

You seem to be ignorant of some basic facts in your frantic neolib
efforts to make it appear this is a "conservative" v. "liberal" issue.

There is no question that FEMA dropped the ball to a great extent.
This is evident in Brown now being taken out of the picture. But
many local authorities in New Orleans would like desperately to
cover up the greater issue of racism having been responsible for
those who were on their own because of social injustice at the most
basic local level. No White for hundreds of years gave a damn at
that level that poor Blacks could not afford the basic necessities
of survival such as a car, or even home insurance, which now
leaves them with absolutely nothing. All Whites saw Blacks as
in that region were "great Jazz musicians," "entertainment value
in their parades," and "cheap local service help." And this economic
disenfranchisement of the Black citizens of New Orleans is totally
responsible for Blacks being disproportionately impacted by the
effects of Hurricane Katrina.

And once again local authorities are expecting the federal government
to foot the bill for the racism that they engendered for hundreds of
years. And liberals will "bang the drum loudly" in their hate for
federal government, which at other times they would rant and rave
about "improper intervention by federal authorities," while ignoring the
basic issue of this long term racist issue by hoping to blame the
federal government now in place for that racism which has existed
for all those years. What they end up doing is making excuses for
the root of this catastrophe. To hide their own failures in civil
rights. Not only was local level as largely responsible for the plight
of poor Blacks in the failure to have them evacuated, but that local
level is responsible for the fact that those poor Blacks had only
various levels of government to depend upon because of an pre-existing
racism which has kept them in that condition. Whites may have
lost their homes, but they had the ability to evacuate and they had
home insurance (which may bite them in the ass anyway, as many
insurance companies are now looking closely to exclude damage
they claim as "flood damage" rather than hurricane damage, which
would require special riders on home policies which many do not
have).

Let us hope that the resurrection of New Orleans is accompanied by
a new mindset of the White residents of both New Orleans and
Louisiana, that from this tragedy a new city rises which honors
a full commitment to equal rights and equal economic opportunities.
The White citizens of New Orleans should choose to do this... not
because it is easy to overcome that mindset... but because it is
the right thing to do, however hard it is to change such a mindset.

As clean a slate as could be imagined now exists to change that
mindset. God willing... the citizens of New Orleans will seize upon
this opportunity. I can't help but relate the tragedy of New Orleans
to the words in "Bridge Over Troubled Water" -- Now that evening
falls so hard on that city, as darkness comes, and pain is all around,
the city will rise new, sailing on silver wings, and we will see that
dreams are on their way, and its time will come to "really" shine.

This is not a liberal or conservative issue.. but one which speaks to
human rights and equal respect for every human who lived or will live
again in the city of New Orleans. Anyone trying to change this into
a personal agenda of liberalism or conservatism has missed the
equal rights boat. And is the one in need of a heart.

Planet Visitor II
http://home.earthlink.net/~onetimeuse/dict.html




Your comments are best directed at Jiggy who is intent on faulting the poor
Mayor of New Orleans for much of the disorganisation that followed the
hurricane AND the flooding caused by the hurricane. I agree that the
'liberals' or the 'conservatives' are not to blame for the degrading
circumstances that your fellow countrymen live in. Blame slavery that has
produced the mind set that 1) makes most white Americans blind to the
horrors that black Americans are subjected to and 2) makes a majority of
black Americans accept such conditions. Poor old Richard used to get
very annoyed when I even mentioned slavery has a factor in the present day
condition of black Americans but just as the way we treated the native born
Irish in the 16th and 17th centuries redounds upon us today so does the way
we treated Africans.

As I posted on the 1st:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...f19f4bde550ea2

the main shock of this disaster to many is what it has exposed.

John Rennie wrote:

"Planet Visitor II" wrote in message
...

snip
This is not a liberal or conservative issue.. but one which speaks to
human rights and equal respect for every human who lived or will live
again in the city of New Orleans. Anyone trying to change this into
a personal agenda of liberalism or conservatism has missed the
equal rights boat. And is the one in need of a heart.


Your comments are best directed at Jiggy who is intent on faulting the poor
Mayor of New Orleans for much of the disorganisation that followed the
hurricane AND the flooding caused by the hurricane.

snip



It is not necessary to use after the storm to blame the idiot mayor. He
did enough dumb things before the storm to qualify for his full quota of
blame. The after the storm stuff is mostly for the idiot vacationing on
the ranch.

Euro 'the cumstain of Europe' wrote in message
oups.com...

Planet Visitor II wrote:
"Euro" wrote in message oups.com...

PJ O'Donovan wrote:
we ALL know that you are lying
about your Australian safari
John Rennie

You are the liar. Show evidence where I claimed I went on an Australian
"safari".

You were a proven liar in your exchange with Susie concerning the Brit
Muslims celebrating 911 and you are merely again proving yourself to be
a pathological liar.

You do sound like James Noles at times.

Oh my word... And who did you sound like when you insisted that no one
need bother to help any of our species? In your words --

/quote/ "Is anyone supposed to "provide an iota of benefit for our species"?
Why should they?" /unquote/
See --
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...bac7ba10920fb7


"Providing an iota of benefit to our species" does not exactly mean
"bother to help any of our species",

Of course it does, you lying sack of ****. Do you really expect anyone
to believe that we do not "benefit" others when we "help" them? See -

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ionary&va=help
HELP -- "to be of use to : BENEFIT"

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ary&va=benefit
BENEFIT -- "something that promotes well-being : ADVANTAGE b :
useful aid : HELP"

To benefit it obviously to help, and to help is obviously to benefit.
And when one helps one benefits not only those he helps but
benefits himself in serving his species. Of course this is an
alien concept to you, as you do not believe ANYONE should
provide an "iota of benefit to our species." YOUR WORDS.

and the URL you provide shows
quite well that, in the context of your own words ("murderers provide
no iota of benefit to our species"), you were absolutely not meaning
anything like "coming to help".

Can you possibly read YOUR OWN WORDS? See the word "anyone"?
Where do YOUR WORDS indicate ONLY MURDERERS? You asked
the question... and you answered it by insisting that there is NO
REASON "ANYONE" is supposed to prove an iota of benefit to our
species.

In other words, you are once again caught red-handed lying.

Poor euro... cannot hide his own words, so needs to try to boldly
lie his way out of his own use of the word "ANYONE." Look at
your words, euro... because others will look at them and judge
what you have argued. And what you have argued is "why should"
ANYONE "provide an iota of benefit for our species," In that
insistence it is obvious that you are arguing that no one should
help anyone else, help any other member of our species by
providing an iota of benefit to them.

But then,
paraphrasing Adlai Stevenson, if you stopped lying about others, you
would stop telling the truth about yourself.



If you stopped lying, I would not have the need to tell the truth and
call you the liar that you are.

Why would I want to stop telling the truth about myself? Since the
truth is my reason for even responding to you is your crass uncaring
attitude toward helping any member of our species. Since it came
up in respect to helping the victims of Katrina, and I recall how you
grew outraged that John Rennie or I would dare solicit help for the
victims of the Tsunami in Indonesia. And the truth is now that I
want to expose you again for lying in trying to deny you are a crass
uncaring selfish adolescent, who has obviously not been nurtured to
the extent necessary to have feelings for those who are victims.

It is well documented here in AADP that you are to the truth as
the dog is to the lamppost.

Planet Visitor II
http://home.earthlink.net/~onetimeuse/dict.html

Euro


Ummm... for this interested this is another of my posting some
very destructive comments from euro, providing the exact words,
a link to those words, and my opinion of those words. Not one
of which he has refuted. --

[1] Your words --
"At least, Goebbels was polite in his propaganda" See --
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...eganetnews.com

[2] In an absolutely conflicted assortment of Machiavellian, ignominious,
disingenuous, feckless, sophistic, and offensive, double-speak nonsense.
ALL IN ONE POST. Your words --
"I made a claim of principle, that families have nothing to do with justice."
"Justice concerns also the families of victims and murderers."
"justice should, on the contrary, be compassion for the murderer's family"
"hence the feelings of the victims' families should not be instrumentalized to
justify a harder penalty;"
"the tears from one side (the victims' family) cannot be compensated
by the tears from another side (the murderers' family)."
"I never alluded to pity for murderers, but to pity for the murderers'
families." See --
http://www.google.fr/groups?selm=98e...eganetnews.com

[3] Your words --
"because murderers are HUMANE, whether you like it or not."
"But since murderers are humane..."
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=5b... anetnews.com

[4] Your words --
"Do you find that John Wayne Gacy is an animal who does not enjoy the
same human rights as you do?" See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=a5...eganetnews.com
You stated "And that is true." In reply to the question of John Wayne Gacy
having the same 'human rights' as any innocent person. See -
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...eganetnews.com

[5] And let's also not forget how much you love murderers. When you decided
to save a few hundred of them, instead of saving millions of innocent slaves.
When offered the choice in a "moral thought experiment" between abolishing
the DP and 'saving' all murderers from the DP, or abolishing slavery and
freeing all slaves in a society that practices both -- Your words --
"That would lead me to the conclusion that I should abolish death penalty."
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=c8...eganetnews.com
You feel... screw those innocent slaves... right, euro?

[6] In your arrogant claims that you, in your God-like belief in your own
infallibility, can DEFINE for everyone what are "great moral qualities."
While every rational person recognizes that 'morality' is not an absolute.
Yet YOU would DEFINE as a RC Cardinal who wants to elevate an executed
murderer to a role which would demand that millions refer to that murderer
as BLESSED -- Your words --
"You will also note that Lustiger is, in France, one of the prominent
activists for the beatification of Jacques Flesch, sentenced to death and
executed in France in 1957 for the murder of a police officer following a
bungled robbery.
http://www.catholicdigest.org/stories/200108106a.html
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to stress the great moral qualities of
Lustiger" See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=dd...eganetnews.com
Of course, then entering DENIAL... as usual, you denied even writing
those words... when you posted "I didn't claim that "it is moral to beatify a
murderer". Along with you again DEFINING 'moral values' for the rest of
all humans, in your delusion that God whispers in your ear... with your
words -- "Lustiger's moral values are famous"

Apparently you find Lustiger 'moral' for supporting what you believe is
an 'immoral' effort. But given that you've never been able to express any
comment without offering a contradiction immediately following that
comment... your belief that God speaks to you in defining 'moral' is
understandable. You simply have some psychotic problems.. See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=f5...eganetnews.com

[7] Your words in speaking of 'Collective guilt.' --
"This word is one of the concepts on which West Germany was built."
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...eganetnews.com
Using the expression that "It targets the whole German population."
How bigoted can you be, euro?

[8] In speaking of the death penalty -- "I actually don't believe in improvements,
and, so far, in spite of all the "improvement" proposals, I have not seen
anything that exclude the possbility for innocents to be executed." See --
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...eganetnews.com
Apparently, you would sacrifice any who might not be executed with any
improvements... simply to justify your sadistic nature, in the support of
YOUR agenda. How very similar to your willingness to sacrifice all
innocent slaves... simply to justify your sadistic nature, in the support of
YOUR agenda.

[9] Implying that pity should not be felt for those deprived of their human
rights in the Holocaust... because in your words --
"Human rights have nothing to do with pity." See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=53...eganetnews.com

[10] And defending the Nazi death camps, insisting when the six death
camps were mentioned, that they were all _concentration camps_
and not Nazi death camps. Insisting that Treblinka, Sobibor, Majdanek,
AUSCHWITZ, Kulmhof (Chelmno), and Belzec were the names of
concentration camps. When those camps were mentioned, you
replying "If my memory is correct, the above names... are names of
concentration camps." See --
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...5f2addaeb9b112

[11] And of course.. another of the 'great ones' from you -- "I don't think one
makes much progress by separating non murderers (the good ones) and
murderers (the evil ones)." Apparently... you conclude that we should not
even bother having a justice system which separates the murderer from the
non-murderer. See --
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...eganetnews.com

[12] Your words in support of the murder of 200 Spanish citizens --
"The big winner of the elections, indeed, is the Spanish people."
Apparently again believing that being victimized can make the
victim "big winners" in the lottery of life. See --
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...eganetnews.com

[13] Your feelings that no one should do anything to benefit any
other person. Your words -- "Is anyone supposed to "provide an iota
of benefit for our species"? Why should they?" See --
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...bac7ba10920fb7

[14] Your claim that mentioning someone is Jewish is EXPOSING
THEM as presumably having some _evil_ that should not be EXPOSED.
Along with your claim that mentioning that someone is Jewish is
DISGUSTING to you... in your words - "Well... because of what you
post. Your original thread about Lustiger sounded very much like
"Look at Lustiger... He's a Jew!" How disgusting..." See -
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=37...eganetnews.com

[15] Your words -- "I come to consider more and more that the election
of Bush in November would be preferable." See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=su...pab ay.rr.com
Believing that Bush will fail, and more deaths will result, while insisting
that it does not matter that more lives would be lost with the election
of Bush. As when I asked you -- "Are you claiming that you really
believe that Bush will be more successful in ending the killing in Iraq,
than another U.S. President?" You replied firmly in the negative... in
your words "No. I am not claiming this, and you know it very well." See --
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...f250ce42993c70
Clearly... you prefer a selection that you believe will give you MORE
KILLINGS in Iraq. It only matters to you that you hope to be able to
gloat == I told you so == Not caring at all about those deaths.

[16] Cardinal Lustiger has continued to stress his Jewish origins
in public forums throughout the world. This has gained him
considerable honors in many respected circles. But euro insists
that in stressing his Jewish origins he is actually working for the
"anti-Semitic extreme right." In euro's words -- "It so happens
that those, in Europe, that are eager to stress Lustiger's Jewish
origins, have connexions with anti-semitic extreme right." See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=dd...eganetnews.com

[17] And you are the one who argues that the Nazis are legally innocent
of killing any Jews. Trying to defend them by insisting that the Holocaust
was _only illegitimate_, and not illegal. And that their idea of legality
is superior to your own idea of legality. In fact, claiming you have no
personal idea of legality... yet you insisted there is "legal murder."
Your words - " Raising the issue from the viewpoint of legality is irrelevant,
as my own standards do not intervene in the field of legality." See --
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...eb377f9f61bcdb
Apparently you find the the legal issue of killing six million innocent
Jews to be "irrelevant."

[18] And of course, we also have your LIE, in which you state
"I never compared the Nazi concentration camps with Guantanamo..."
Because you certainly DID... when you insisted that "Guantanamo
could also fit in your list," the list of what you called Nazi
"concentration camps" (aside from your Holocaust denial that
none of them were "extermination camps" for Jews). Because
that clearly is an attempt to compare Guantanamo to "concentration
camps" If you claimed that Guantanamo could fit in that list of Nazi
camps, what do you think you were doing, but comparing them
to Guantanamo? See --
http://www.google.fr/groups?selm=110...40meganetnews2

[19] As the results of a European poll showed that many Europeans
consider Israel to be "the greatest threat to world peace," ignoring
Arab threats and terrorism throughout the world, and while Israel
is comprised of 80% Jews, Rabbi Marvin Hier , the respected
Wiesenthal Centre's founder, remarked -- "This poll is an indication
that Europeans have bought in, "hook, line and sinker", to the vilification
and demonisation campaign directed against the state of Israel and her
supporters by European leaders and media." euro leapt to the attack
on Rabbi Hier, and as so many anti-Semites claimed that the Rabbi's
comments were just typical _Jews are simply whiners_, with euro's
comment that the Rabbi's comment was "somewhat peremptory
(but soooooooo convenient) judgement." Yes... I'm sure that euro felt
there was a _big plot_ behind the Rabbi's comment, while I smelled
an attempt at a cover-up from euro. See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=af...eganetnews.com

[20] And following in the true Nazi tradition, in believing in the
Nazi idea of the _Jews being racially inferior_, euro asserted --
"If you litterally say that someone was "born Jew", you actually
endorse the opinion of those who argued that there was a
"Jewish race" based on their genetic or genealogic history."
euro thus calls 2.8 million Jews in the U.S. who either practice
a different religion than Judaism, or are totally secular, and
who consider themselves to be Jewish through a birthright,
nothing more than _practicing the views of the Nazis_. See --
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=44...eganetnews.com
and see --
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_judaism.html
Notice that statistics reveal that only 51% of ALL Jews in the
U.S. say they are Jewish by religion.
quote
"A new portrait of American Jewish religious identification
conducted by three leading sociologists reveals that 1.4 million
Jews say that they are Jewish by dint of parentage or ethnicity
but align themselves with another faith community. In 1990,
625,000 Jews identified themselves that way."
An additional 1.4 million Jews -- another quarter of the population
-- say they are secular or have no religion at all, leaving just 51
percent of American Jews to say they are Jewish by religion."
unquote
euro hatefully claims that each of those Jews, having claimed
to be Jewish as their birthright, linking them to the rich cultural
and historical heritage of the Jews and every persecution
endured by the Jews for thousands of years, and connecting
them to their family tree, the art, the literature, the music and
even their separate language, are nothing more than advocates
of the Nazi idea of a Jew. It is one thing to disagree that a
particular person might not be seen as a Jew in one's eye,
even while that person might insist he is. It is quite another
to claim that NO such person exists... and that those who
claim that Jewish birthright, are simply practicing the ideas
of the Nazis. The latter is euro's view of anyone claiming to
be "born Jewish," in insulting millions and millions of those
who do claim that Jewish birthright, irrespective of any silly
religion. There is no idea of a Jewish birthright in euro's
view. He sees claiming that birthright is practicing the
views of the Nazis. In his process he is determined to
wipe out the idea of a Jewish birthright, wipe out the idea
of a Jew being anything more than a practitioner of a
religion. Just as surely as the Nazis expected to literally
exterminate the BODIES of those who are "born Jews,"
euro is determined to exterminate the IDEA of a "born Jew."
In both cases.. the effort is to eliminate the "born Jew."