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T-shirt woman kicked off Southwest flight to sue



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 7th, 2005, 08:30 PM
nobody
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Default T-shirt woman kicked off Southwest flight to sue

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
Does the uninformed babble never end?? I'm amazed that a group of
well-respected individuals were able to come together in support of
you having a role in moderating what was a great newsgroup. It's just
a huge joke. Oh well, at least it gives you something to do.



Did YOU volunteer to rescusitate the news group ? Did you particiapte in
the discussions with the NAN group ? Did you volunteer to spend your
time to approve incoming messages and update the newsgroup charter and
operating guidelines ?

For your information, misc.transport-air-industry was about to be
formally destroyed because of lack of activity and previous moderators
having never left a forwarding address where they could be contacted.
Blame them for skipping town without telling anyone and leaving the
newsgroup in a state of limbo for years.

In the early discussions with the other 2 moderiators and Jorhn R Levine
who graciously provides the moderating software, I made it very clear
that it was up to them to decide if it was OK for me to help or not.

Not happy with my contributions to the misc.transport.air-industry ?
Complain to the moderating group. You feel you could do a better job ?
Just apply to be a moderator and I will gladly bow out if it means more
people would contribute.


But uif nobody is there to keep misc.transport.,air-industry alive,
you'll be stuck in rec.travel.air reading greg morrow's dialogue with
himself about his fetishes.
  #2  
Old October 8th, 2005, 05:00 AM
Miguel Cruz
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Default

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
I never said I did and I never said I didn't think it wasn't a good
idea to recusitate the group. I do, however, think you're a poor
person to be put in charge of moderating a newsgroup on the subject at
hand given your rabid, and on many instances uninformed, views.


Is there any evidence that JF's views have affected his handling of his
moderator duties?

To me, when someone takes on a role in moderating a group, they have
an obligation to be informed about the subject at hand. And on so many
cases, you're just not. You lack knowledge required of someone in a
position.


I wouldn't think that moderators are called upon to resolve questions of
fact, just to make sure that the discussion stays on-topic and that
advertising is kept out.

I don't think the mderated group is very useful but I sure don't see where
that's got anything to do with JF.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 37 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Hong Kong; Macau; Amsterdam; Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan
  #3  
Old October 8th, 2005, 05:50 AM
Reef Fish
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Posts: n/a
Default


Maxx. wrote:
GW Chimpzilla wrote:

If Southwest mentions they have a dress code on the back of their ticket,
perhaps they'll win this lawsuit. Otherwise, they're going to have to pay.


Their dress code is clearly stated in their "Contract of Carriage" on
their web site. T-shirt woman should quit while she's ahead.


And exactly what is the "dress code" clearly stated?

That a passenger must not wear a printed T-shirt? That a passenger
must not be naked? Or something else -- if so, what is it?

Enquiring mind want to know.

-- Bob.

  #4  
Old October 8th, 2005, 06:15 AM
John R. Levine
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Their dress code is clearly stated in their "Contract of Carriage" on
their web site. T-shirt woman should quit while she's ahead.


And exactly what is the "dress code" clearly stated?


Page 10 of WN's conditions of carriage, conveniently available on
their web site, has a laundry list of reasons they can refuse to
transport you, starting with

(1) Persons whose conduct is or has been known to be disorderly, abusive,
offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent, or whose clothing is
lewd, obscene, or patently offensive;

They'd probably argue that her shirt was patently offensive. Who knows
what a court would say.

R's,
John


  #5  
Old October 8th, 2005, 06:33 AM
nobody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
I never said I did and I never said I didn't think it wasn't a good
idea to recusitate the group. I do, however, think you're a poor
person to be put in charge of moderating a newsgroup on the subject at
hand given your rabid, and on many instances uninformed, views.


The role of a moderator is to filter out posts submitted which do not
follow established guidelines. If it's not related to aviation industry,
it is bounced. It it gets personnal, it is filtered out etc. It has
nothing to do with my knolwedge or lack thereof about aviation industry.


Except for obvious spam, I have not yet bounced anything. There are
problems with the moderating software which automatically bounce posts
coming from many news servers which don't feed perfectly formatted
messages, but there is not much more I can do about this. We don't pay
for the moderation service/software and the provider insists on
maintaining those strict rules.

Some spam has gotten through and it is then a question of following up
with the submitting news server so thay can track down their user who
forged the moderation headers.

As I said before, if you are not happy with the moderation of the
newsgroup, you can complain to all moderators. If you look at the
archives of the group, you will find all necessary information as well
as pointers to the group's charter and posting guidelines.

If you do not have any examples of poor moderation of the newsgroup,
stop making unwarranted accusations and stick to rec.travel.air to
discuss Ellen, Sheryl and all those other fetishes that Greg Morrow and
all his aliases have.


To me, when someone takes on a role in moderating a group, they have
an obligation to be informed about the subject at hand.


Moderation involves simply processing posts and preventing totally off
topic posts from getting thorugh, and in circumstances where there is a
flame war, cool things down.

I'm not blaming them for anything. They volunteered just like you
volunteered. It's a nice group, when it's functioning properly.


I also made it expliocit to the others that I would bow out if my
presence was a hindrance to the group's success. I have gotten no such
sugesstions by the other moderators. If you are avoiding posting simply
because I exist, then it is your problem. In fact, majority of posts
gets approved by the other moderators since they tend to get to the
approval requests before I can.

There was one recent event where one post was rejected by mistake by one
moderator and I re-injected it and approved it.


participation continues to decline. Most of the posting in the new
m.t.a.i. is among the co-moderators.


And if people like you stopped criticising the newsgroups without any
specific criticisms, perhaps we'd have more success growing participation.

Again, my issue is not so much with the job you and anyone else is
doing with m.t.a.i.


So stop complaining about misc.transportyy-air-industry. If you have no
complaints about his the newsgroup is functioning, if you have no
complaints about the contents that do make it to mtai, then you have no
reason to posts messages as the one to which I am replying, and you have
no reason to abstain from participating in the group.

Plenty of people hate me because I do not support the USA's current
policies, and that includes one of the moderators, but it doesn't mean
that we can't do a professional job moderating an aviation newsgroup
that discusses business aspects. There has been no or extremely little
"politics" in that newsgroup.


My point is that your remarks about the U.S. and
its policies are uniformed and in many cases offensive.


I have made no such remarks in mtai.


a COWARD who's afraid to post under his own name in one newsgroup on
air travel,



I wish you the full wrath of nomen on you, including forged identities
forever archived in so many web sites with slander against you. If that
were to happen to you, you'd fully understand why I cannot post under my
own name in this newsgroup. Complain to Greg Morrow and friends if ytou
dislike many posteres not using their real names.

There have been plenty of people who had stopped using real names in
this newsgroup over the years. Most of which have left due to Nomen and friends.
  #6  
Old October 8th, 2005, 06:43 AM
nobody
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
That's just the mechanics of it. The bigger issue to me is whether or
not you should select people worthy of the group's respect to serve in
a leadership role.



I was not selected. The destruction of misc.transport.air-industry due
to lack of activity (measured in years) had been announced with a
deadline. A last chance was offered by the NAN team for volunteers to
pick up the group before it is destroyed. John Levine copied the
announcement here. I offered to help, as did 2 others (I bet you don't
even know who the 2 others are). The 2 others did not object to my
volunteering. (I specifically asked). I spent time updating the charter
and posting guidelines to reflect changes in the industry since it had
last been written, as well as adding rules about anonymous remailers.

You could have volunteered to help rebuild the newsgroup and then you
could have voiced your objection to my participation and I woudl have
bowed out, especially if there had been enough moderators on-board. You
didn't. You don't have much right to complain, especially if you cannot
point to a single moderating mistake I have made.

So put up or shut up, or volunteer to be a moderator and then vote to
kick me out if you can convince other moderators to vote with you.
  #7  
Old October 8th, 2005, 06:49 AM
Miguel Cruz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

rk wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
Nancy Young wrote:
Yes, she chose to *leave* ... she can't sue when she volunteered to leave.


Why not? "Leave or I'll shoot you."


No one threatened to shoot her, physically harm her, or even threaten her.

If you have any evidence that someone threatened to shoot her, I'd be
interesting in seeing that.


Me too. But since nobody claimed that and there's been no reports to that
effect, I doubt we will.

The point is that leaving voluntarily doesn't mean there wasn't some sort of
coercion, or a set of unacceptable choices of which leaving was the least
troublesome.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 37 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Hong Kong; Macau; Amsterdam; Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan
  #8  
Old October 8th, 2005, 04:33 PM
john
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 08 Oct 2005 01:02:41 -0400, Cyrus Afzali
wrote:

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 23:00:02 -0500, (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
I never said I did and I never said I didn't think it wasn't a good
idea to recusitate the group. I do, however, think you're a poor
person to be put in charge of moderating a newsgroup on the subject at
hand given your rabid, and on many instances uninformed, views.


Is there any evidence that JF's views have affected his handling of his
moderator duties?


No, and I never claimed that. What I DO claim is that he's a poor
choice for that role.

To me, when someone takes on a role in moderating a group, they have
an obligation to be informed about the subject at hand. And on so many
cases, you're just not. You lack knowledge required of someone in a
position.


I wouldn't think that moderators are called upon to resolve questions of
fact, just to make sure that the discussion stays on-topic and that
advertising is kept out.


That's just the mechanics of it. The bigger issue to me is whether or
not you should select people worthy of the group's respect to serve in
a leadership role. To me, if you want a group to prosper, you should.
I think the reason it largely is only the domain of the moderators
points clearly to the fact that this is a legitimate issue.

I don't think the mderated group is very useful but I sure don't see where
that's got anything to do with JF.





The fact that he's associated with it largely kept most people from
going there in the first place.


Do you know this for a fact? Have any figures to back this up?

Do you know who the moderators are for every moderated group you look
at?
  #9  
Old October 8th, 2005, 05:51 PM
Miguel Cruz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

rk wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
rk wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
Nancy Young wrote:
Yes, she chose to *leave* ... she can't sue when she volunteered to
leave.

Why not? "Leave or I'll shoot you."

No one threatened to shoot her, physically harm her, or even threaten
her.

If you have any evidence that someone threatened to shoot her, I'd be
interesting in seeing that.


Me too. But since nobody claimed that and there's been no reports to that
effect, I doubt we will.


It was your quote, so please show some evidence that it is based in reality
and fact. Or even something remotely close to it.


I didn't claim that happened; that would be ridiculous and both of us know
it. I was giving a hypothetical example of a situation where volunteering to
leave isn't really volunteering. Apparently my shorthand caused some
confusion; I thought it was obvious since none of the articles said anything
about shooting, but apparently not. We can probably move past that now
unless you want to continue beating the straw man until he's in tatters.

The airline asked the woman to take reasonable steps and initially she
complied. That is not equivalent to shooting her.


Quite right.

It appears that you are taking logic lessons from the Mezei Regime.


Whatever.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 37 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Hong Kong; Macau; Amsterdam; Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan
  #10  
Old October 8th, 2005, 06:21 PM
Gregory Morrow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"rk" wrote in message
...
Mezei as moderator is equivalent to having a terrorist nation (that has
brought down a commercial airliner) chair the UN Human Commission on Human
Rights. Not surprising there is so little traffic.

Mezei, you tell us about your fantastic moderation skills. Why don't you
self-moderate your own posts in the unmoderated groups to the standards

you
apply as "moderator?" Instead you use a double standard as you abuse the
unmoderated groups with your hate and prejudice.



Mezei is always too busy masturbating merrily away to "self - moderate" his
posts...

--
Best
Greg


--
rk
"Just make sure all crewmembers are jewish. Then you throw a penny into
the Soyuz capsule and all 12 will find a way to fit in there"
-- JF Mezei, February 8, 2003.



nobody wrote:

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
I never said I did and I never said I didn't think it wasn't a good
idea to recusitate the group. I do, however, think you're a poor
person to be put in charge of moderating a newsgroup on the subject at
hand given your rabid, and on many instances uninformed, views.


The role of a moderator is to filter out posts submitted which do not
follow established guidelines. If it's not related to aviation industry,
it is bounced. It it gets personnal, it is filtered out etc. It has
nothing to do with my knolwedge or lack thereof about aviation industry.


Except for obvious spam, I have not yet bounced anything. There are
problems with the moderating software which automatically bounce posts
coming from many news servers which don't feed perfectly formatted
messages, but there is not much more I can do about this. We don't pay
for the moderation service/software and the provider insists on
maintaining those strict rules.

Some spam has gotten through and it is then a question of following up
with the submitting news server so thay can track down their user who
forged the moderation headers.

As I said before, if you are not happy with the moderation of the
newsgroup, you can complain to all moderators. If you look at the
archives of the group, you will find all necessary information as well
as pointers to the group's charter and posting guidelines.

If you do not have any examples of poor moderation of the newsgroup,
stop making unwarranted accusations and stick to rec.travel.air to
discuss Ellen, Sheryl and all those other fetishes that Greg Morrow and
all his aliases have.


To me, when someone takes on a role in moderating a group, they have
an obligation to be informed about the subject at hand.


Moderation involves simply processing posts and preventing totally off
topic posts from getting thorugh, and in circumstances where there is a
flame war, cool things down.

I'm not blaming them for anything. They volunteered just like you
volunteered. It's a nice group, when it's functioning properly.


I also made it expliocit to the others that I would bow out if my
presence was a hindrance to the group's success. I have gotten no such
sugesstions by the other moderators. If you are avoiding posting simply
because I exist, then it is your problem. In fact, majority of posts
gets approved by the other moderators since they tend to get to the
approval requests before I can.

There was one recent event where one post was rejected by mistake by one
moderator and I re-injected it and approved it.


participation continues to decline. Most of the posting in the new
m.t.a.i. is among the co-moderators.


And if people like you stopped criticising the newsgroups without any
specific criticisms, perhaps we'd have more success growing
participation.

Again, my issue is not so much with the job you and anyone else is
doing with m.t.a.i.


So stop complaining about misc.transportyy-air-industry. If you have no
complaints about his the newsgroup is functioning, if you have no
complaints about the contents that do make it to mtai, then you have no
reason to posts messages as the one to which I am replying, and you have
no reason to abstain from participating in the group.

Plenty of people hate me because I do not support the USA's current
policies, and that includes one of the moderators, but it doesn't mean
that we can't do a professional job moderating an aviation newsgroup
that discusses business aspects. There has been no or extremely little
"politics" in that newsgroup.


My point is that your remarks about the U.S. and its policies are
uniformed and in many cases offensive.


I have made no such remarks in mtai.


a COWARD who's afraid to post under his own name in one newsgroup on
air travel,



I wish you the full wrath of nomen on you, including forged identities
forever archived in so many web sites with slander against you. If that
were to happen to you, you'd fully understand why I cannot post under my
own name in this newsgroup. Complain to Greg Morrow and friends if ytou
dislike many posteres not using their real names.

There have been plenty of people who had stopped using real names in
this newsgroup over the years. Most of which have left due to Nomen and
friends.






 




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