Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets

I have the sneaky suspiscion

I have the sneaky suspicion that I spelled that word incorrectly.

Karen Selwyn ha scritto:

What name does the company use when they tour in Europe?

I do not know, really.
By the way, the mispelling afflicting my previous post, with an 'l'
instead of an 'r', was really a mistyping on my part.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a different note, Karen, I used to be acquainted with two fine
musicians in the greater NY area. A bassoonist and a trombone player
from Saint Lous Symphony first and later the NBC under Arturo's baton.
They were close to Leonard Bernstein too.
If the names Ralph and Flory Lorr rings a bell to you, please write to
me in private.

Cheers and bon voyage.

Sergio
Pisa

Karen Selwyn wrote:

We've had Evelyn calling people idiots for not inherently recognizing
the superiority of Russian orchestras. We've had someone explaining
Russian superiority by supplying an analogy referring to musicians I've
never heard of. So far, I sincerely haven't been persuaded that Russian
musicians are superior to the best of American or British or German,
etc. musicians.

There are a lot of world class Russian soloist, mainly because there is
a very large base of talented pupils to choose from, and the level of
music studies is very high.

During the Soviet period there were also some excellent orchestra, but
in these last years working conditions for musicians have often got bad;
so the best Russian orchestra musicians have tried and try to find some
work overseas to make ends meet. So, now, a lot of Russian orchestras
have second class musicians.

About the difference between orchestras: even if the orchestra
instruments look being the same all the world over, they really are not.
For example, German orchestra use larger trumpets, whose sound is
mellower than the American ones, and old-style woodwinds. In order to
play these specific instruments you have to study them, often several
years, and those instruments are better studied on the spot. So a real
national style of playing develops. Any German orchestra worth its salt
would hire, say, a Japanese or American player only if he/she plays
German style instruments and can show a study curriculum in a German
Musikhochschule; this in order to preserve the German orchestral sound.

The same could be said about string playing in Russia, or woodwind
playing in France. For example, French wind players often have a smaller
and more refined sound than German ones - this suiting better French
composed music, for example.

Also, it happens that you really get to play well some piece only by
playing it again and again. Any second rate German orchestra probably
gets to know better Wagner operas - that in Germany are frequently
performed - than a top class French orchestra. So it is likely that a
German orchestra plays Wagner better than a French orchestra - not
because they are better players, but because the know Wagner music
betters. And, of course, Wagner wrote that music thinking to the sound
of German trumpets, German oboes, etc.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail:
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)

spamfree wrote:

As I wrote in my other post, Russian orchestras tend to be rougher
than Western European or American orchestras. I must admit that
I am ignorant of whether this is historically correct, i.e. were
Tchaikovsky's ballets played that way during his lifetime?

During Tchaikovsky's lifetime his ballets were considered often too
difficult to be played. The first performance of Swan Lake was about one
fourth of the full score, as a complete performance was deemed too
difficult.

I suspect
that it is true for a simple reason; Russian orchestras never had
the big budget for high-class instruments.

In my opinion, Russian players often made up playing with second class
instruments with studying them more than western players.

My wife once accompanied a young Russian violin player from Novosibirsk,
then aged 18 (now orchestra leader at Israel Philarmonic, I believe) to
try some violins at a violin maker shop in Italy. She was impressed to
hear that, in his hands, every violin sounded the same; he could make a
bad violin sound as well as an excellent one, without any apparent
effort. The guy had spent so many hours of his life playing violin that
it no more mattered what kind of violin was he playing.

An then, the Soviet government had also a not so small stock of top
class instruments to be lent to major Russian soloists.

There is another aspect, usually forgotten. I have heard music in a
couple of Russian venues - the big hall of Moscow's Conservatory and the
Philarmonic Hall in St. Petersburg - and I have been impressed by their
distintive acoustic properties. They sounded different than any other
hall I have visited in the world - I dare say that I began understanding
Russian music only after hearing music in a Russian concert hall.

In my opinion, as difficult as it may be, any classical music fan (aka a
snob) should consider a travel to Moscow or St. Petersburg to make the
same experience.


--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail:
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)

Icono Clast writes:
[Cross-posted to rec.arts.dance]

Karen Selwyn wrote:

The first time the Kirov and, then, the Bolshoi Ballet Companies were
included in our subscription, I went to the theater with great
anticipation. Now, many years later, I am more blase about these two
companies.

Well you should be. After the fall of the Soviet
Union, most of their best dancers moved on to the West.
The dropoff in talent has been tremendous. Plus isn't
it true that talented dancers coming up in Russia no
longer get the massive state financial support they
used to? So nowadays a talented child in a poor family
can no longer afford to pursue ballet.

Another reason why Cuban ballet is so good.
Communism might be bad, but it does have its bright
spots.

Huck

In my opinion, as difficult as it may be, any classical music fan (aka
a snob) should consider a travel to Moscow or St. Petersburg to
make the same experience.

I completely agree. Another thing people will see in those two major
cities are musicians playing in the metro underground walkways, to
earn extra money. I have seen a small group of string players in
Moscow in that environment, and my Russian friend told me that
they were members of one of Moscow's large orchestras. In Piter
I saw two young (teenagers) violinists playing in the underground
walkway, and they were very good.

Nice post, by the way. My comment regarding snobs should have
included a smilie, as I am a classical music fan, too.

duh

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...


Karen Selwyn wrote:

We've had Evelyn calling people idiots for not inherently recognizing the
superiority of Russian orchestras.

Really? When was this? (I do remember pointing out to some asshole or
other - "mr travel", I think - that one "accomplished" orchestra is not a
substitute for another, nor is it.) Where did you get the peculiar notion
that only Russian musicians were affected? From all reports, the sudden
ban on instruments in the cabin applied to all touring musicians equally.

We've had someone explaining
Russian superiority by supplying an analogy referring to musicians I've
never heard of. So far, I sincerely haven't been persuaded that Russian
musicians are superior to the best of American or British or German, etc.
musicians.

No one SAID "superior" - but can anyone who knows anything at all about
classical music claim that the Bolshoi and the London Philharmonic are the
SAME? Or that, if one wants to hear Hrovstovsky, a recital by Terfel is
"just as good"? (For that matter, I don't think people who like popular
music would say that a concert by one group was "just as good" as a
concert by another, even though both were of similar fame and popularity.)


Since we've had a ballet subscription to the Kennedy Center for nearly
twenty years, I can only use my experience as a reasonably knowledgeable
audience member of ballet to extrapolate to symphony. I really don't
think Russian ballet companies are better than the best of American,
Danish, British, French, or German ballet companies.

Again, no one SAID "better"! Is that any reason you would not want to be
allowed the opportunity to see both - without traveling to Russia? Most
of my travel to Europe has been to see opera I can't see in this country.
That's not to say the Met is not the equal of the top European companies,
but they are DIFFERENT - their choice of repertoire includes operas the
Met seldom if ever does, and some of their singers never appear in the
U.S. I also enjoy the Met, on occasion - one experience does not
substitute for the other. (Only an idiot would suggest that it does.)

Can anyone make her take her red pill ?
Please !

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...


Karen Selwyn wrote:

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:



We've had Evelyn calling people idiots for not inherently recognizing
the superiority of Russian orchestras.



Really? When was this? (I do remember pointing out to some asshole or
other - "mr travel", I think - that one "accomplished" orchestra is not
a substitute for another, nor is it.)



Saturday, August 12, Mr. Travel wrote: "What's the difference between
qualified people from Russia or the US playing the same music?"

That same day you responded, "Don't display your ignorance, moron!"

Are you saying his asinine question was NOT moronic? No two equally
qualified musicians play the same piece of music the SAME (and no two
directors interpret it the same). To think they are interchangeable is to
display abysmal ignorance, IMO!

you never talk on topic, always bringing everything to the US and you don't
understand half of what is written here.
Your companions are evleth, martin and morrow soooo...
duuh


"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...


Karen Selwyn wrote:



Please re-read my post. The topic of bans on instruments in cabins wasn't
even mentioned much less Russian musicians being singularly affected. I
was trying to find out the answer to the question that has nagged me
since Mr. Travel posted it so I started this thread.

Most of us have experienced "mr travel's" trolling too often to be misled
(apparently you don't read this newsgroup as regularly as many of us do).
Even when he posts about travel, the regulars with much more travel
experience than I find some of his statements ludicrous, although he
CLAIMS to be a travel professional. (Caveat emptor!)

gRunge wrote:

you never talk on topic, always bringing everything to the US and you don't
understand half of what is written here.
Your companions are evleth, martin and morrow soooo...
duuh


All top - class company IMNSHO...

--
Best
Greg




"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" a écrit dans le
message de news: ...


Karen Selwyn wrote:



Please re-read my post. The topic of bans on instruments in cabins wasn't
even mentioned much less Russian musicians being singularly affected. I
was trying to find out the answer to the question that has nagged me
since Mr. Travel posted it so I started this thread.

Most of us have experienced "mr travel's" trolling too often to be misled
(apparently you don't read this newsgroup as regularly as many of us do).
Even when he posts about travel, the regulars with much more travel
experience than I find some of his statements ludicrous, although he
CLAIMS to be a travel professional. (Caveat emptor!)