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#21
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Detained at the whim of the president
user wrote in message . ..
Hmm, I think the best argument in this (somewhat complicated) case is to consider the fact that we are are flying the American flag over there, and the territory was sealed off, for any ordinary Cubans (even Cuban exiles are no longer allowed to come to the base). And since the good old Fidel took over power in Cuba the US hasn't paid rent. One might actually argue that the base is occupied land. For your information: the U.S. IS PAYING 2,000 DOLLARS PER YEAR ! Ever heard of SCUBA-diving and the Callypso-expeditions? (I have seen this documentary myself!) In 1985 President Fidel Castro told Captain Cousteau (the French film-maker, who is also the inventor of Scuba-technology) that Cuba does not recognize the US claim to Guantanamo and showed him the uncashed rent payments. Captain Cousteau crossed the mined no-man's-land to Guantanamo Base, the first non-Cuban to make the crossing since 1961, to discuss Castro's remarks with the base commander, who explained the base's use to train the fleet. In contrast to the historic island, the base looks like many American towns, complete with school bus, baseball field and McDonald's. See also: http://www.cousteausociety.org/tcs_e...ions_cuba.html http://www.cousteau.org/en/ http://www.cousteau.org/en/heritage/...ions/scuba.php http://www.cousteau.org/en/heritage/calypso/history.php "Gitmo" as it is often called, is the oldest U.S. base outside of the continental United States. The U.S. Navy has maintained a presence at Guantánamo since 1903, when the area was acquired as a coaling and naval station. The original lease agreement signed between U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt and Cuban President Estrada Palma gave the United States "the right to exercise complete jurisdiction and control within and over the area. In turn, the United States recognized the ultimate sovereignty of Cuba over the leased areas." This original agreement was reaffirmed by a treaty signed in 1934 by President Franklin Roosevelt. The first American casualties of the Spanish-Cuban-American war were two marines killed at Guantánamo on June 11, 1898. A U.S. Marine battalion camped there the day before, marking the first U.S. presence on the bay. Just about five years later, on February 23, 1903, U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt signed an agreement with Cuba leasing the bay for 2,000 gold coins per year. The agreement was forced on the puppet Cuban government (with an American-citizen for President) through the Platt Amendment, which gave U.S. authorities the right to interfere in Cuban affairs. On July 2 1906, (just before the 2nd U.S. military intervention, a new lease is signed in Havana for Guantánamo Bay and Bahía Honda, for which the U.S. will pay a meager $2,000 per year. After Cubans annulled the Platt Amendment in 1934, a new lease was negotiated between the Roosevelt administration and a U.S.-friendly government that included Fulgencio Batista (who would later become the worst dictator the country has ever known) as one of three signatories. Batista emerged as the strong man on the island over the next twenty-five years. When the Revolution triumphed in 1959, the U.S. banned its soldiers stationed at the bay from entering Cuban territory. Legally speaking, Guantánamo should have been returned to Cuba at this time. (As a principle of universal law, perpetual contracts can be cancelled at any time) In an interview with Soviet journalists in October 1985, U.S. President Ronald Reagan said that the purpose of the base was political: to impose the U.S. presence, even if the Cubans didn't want it. Every year the U.S. sends a check for the lease amount, but the Cuban government has never cashed them. |
#22
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Detained at the whim of the president
What is wrong with you
people??? You have no clue how American Government works??? Bush couldn't have possibly done this on his own, he had support and guidance from the majority, which is how it works. Its so funny that when we actually attacked these fanatics, these freedom haters, that the majority supported the action. Now that the going is tough, we now know who the weak are....thanks for showing us your true soul Mike Actually, to be completely technical, YES Dubya can, could and did begin this without the approval of the "majority". He is the commander in chief of the military and can, at his whim, dispatch troops as he sees fit. Only Congress can declare war, but the president controls the troops. It's a check and balance written into the constitution. The Tonkin Gulf Resolution authorized the use of force in Vietnam. Congress similarly authorized the use of force in Iraq in 1991. In Kosovo, however, there was no specific resolution authorizing the use of force, but Congress did pass a bill to fund the action. Congress has, however, stopped short of declaring "war" in each case. Just to clarify. If you want to call anyone weak, speak of those who allowed themselves to be manipulated by passionate, empty speeches about hunting down the people responsible for Sept 11. What Dubya has done is take a national tragedy and turn it into justification for attacking Iraq. Afghanastan, yeah, that was justified, even though it turned my stomach to do it. Iraq has never TO THIS DAY been proven to have a link to al Queda. (And don't say that they harbored terrorists -- so did Saudi Arabia and we're not attacking them) Iraq has never been proven to have had a single weapon of mass destruction. It was smoke and mirrors. The majority never supported this. They were cowered by talk of anti Americanism. If they were weak, it was in not standing up and calling what was wrong, wrong. |
#23
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Detained at the whim of the president
"Nik" wrote in message ...
"Charles Gray" wrote in message ... SNIP And since the good old Fidel took over power in Cuba the US hasn't paid rent. One might actually argue that the base is occupied land. Nik. I understand that every year a rent cheque is presented to the Cuban Government, and every year it is contemptuously burnt! |
#24
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Detained at the whim of the president
"david" wrote in message om... "Nik" wrote in message ... "Charles Gray" wrote in message ... And since the good old Fidel took over power in Cuba the US hasn't paid rent. One might actually argue that the base is occupied land. I understand that every year a rent cheque is presented to the Cuban Government, and every year it is contemptuously burnt! Nope, a couple of years ago I saw a French documentary film, where JJ-Cousteau was received into Castro's office. And Fidel let it be known to the world that he kept all the checks, only worth a couple of thousand dollars, IN THE TOP DRAWER OF HIS DESK !!! He actually showed them to the camera, and for sure he hadn't cashed them in, and he never would!! Followed a three and a half hour speech on why the cuban political system is - though less pluralistic - more democratic, than its American counterpart, which he claimed was completely corrupted by corporate money and why the U.S. should have gotten out of Guantanamo a long time ago (as far as I remember, at the time his arguments actually sounded quite logical to me). Anyway, a piece of sensational filmmaking that was indeed... and so: there has been no burning of any money or cheques. But what about Fidel, isn't it time that Cuba did something about the Gitmo situation? With all their talk about the revolution. At least the Cuban Supreme Court could have made a ruling/statement/conclusion/arrest/verdict/whatever... |
#25
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Detained at the whim of the president
sure... Like Billy was? get real
"Corse" wrote in message . com... "None" wrote in message ink.net... Listen, the little dicktater is worried that all this is going to hurt his chances of re-election, since all the democratic challengers are beating on these issues day in and day out in the press. Thankfully, that little prick won't be re-elected for a second term. ----------------------- Hold that thought. He shouldn't be re-elected. He should be impeached. Corse |
#26
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Detained at the whim of the president
Yet another off-topic Mezei troll, and from a stolen domain:
Message-ID: From: Nobody Organization: nla0: X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.travel.air Subject: Detained at the whim of the president References: . net m Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:38:48 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.11.160.74 X-Trace: news.nnrp.ca 1071128153 66.11.160.74 (Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:35:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 02:35:53 EST Ken Davey wrote: Seems to me that the instant these 'detainees' arrived at Guantonamo they were on US soil and were therefore entitled to the *full* protection of the US constitution. If not that means that no one is protected. Tell me I am wrong; Someone?; Please? The Bush Jr defenders content that Gantanamo isn't technically US Soil. It is Cuban soil that is leased to the americans. However, nobody debates the fact that the folks were kidnapped and are being held by american citizens under orders from the american government. Funny how the USA conveniently uses the argument that since Gantanamo is not US territory, its rules don't apply, but its rules applies outside its own territory when it so convenient (for instance, bringing back that Walker fellow as a showcase prize and trying him in USA courts. Bush has gotten away with the kidnapping and illegal detention at Gantanamo (and many US prosons across the USA) of civilians and military from Afghanistan because the american media and public were gullible enough to believe those claims that the kidnapped humans had no human rights. ----------------------------------------- nobody.com is a registered domain. Report Mezei's theft and abuse of this domain to its owner Domain Name: NOBODY.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact: Southport Technologies 314 Queen Street South Suite 158 Bolton, Ontario L7E 4Z9 CA 905-880-0289 fax: 905-880-3061 Record expires on 24-Aug-2004. Record created on 25-Aug-1995. Also report him to: Jean-Francois Mezei 86 Harwood Gate Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 (514) 695-8259 A DECADE OF USENET TROLLING [nospam] nobody Conspiracy Theory Lou Raccoon Flapping Labias Throbbing vulva Twin Gonads Loose Scrotum Raised Organ Popped Cherry Monica Lewinski Deep Fried Foreskin Aroma of Smegma Wet fart Pubic dandruff Voluptuous Nipple Inserted Finger Pubic Nair Flatulent Meatus Lihk Mhygroin Pre Khum Phi Mosis Bal Anatis Fren Ullum Ivanna Getlaid Ivanna Wankalot Ivanna Umpalot Wan Tnoneofit Wan Itbad Wan Towank Wan Tolik Testos Terone Upper Gonad Right Gonad Left Gonad Tyson's Glands Nose Hair Coronal Sulcus Corpus Cavernus Armpit moisture Onani Room Arnie's Banana Raised eyebrows Vas Deferens Naked Canuck Arni's socks Notable Exception Unpopped Cherry Tatooed Ovaries Pierced eyelid Limp Tomato Eggplant Earrings Banana Underpants Naval Lint Ingrown Toenail Empty Stomach Full Stomach Smelly Cat Torn Ligament Art Tistic Furry Raccoon Wet Racoon Mad Racoon Lazy Racoon Eaten Racoon Happy Raccoon Sleeping Racoon Hungry Racoon Horny Raccoon Smart Raccoon George W Raccoon Ronald McRaccoon Thirsty Raccoon Johnny Raccoon Oshi Santo Oishi Chinko T.Yellow Q Borg Queen Ronald Wilkerson John Balterman |
#27
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Detained at the whim of the president
Ken Davey wrote:
Mike Dobony wrote: This so-called citizen gave up those rights by serving in a foreign military. By joining teh foreign military he ceased to be a US citizen just as one does when one desires citizenship in another country. Wrong and wrong. Check current law on this subject. Ken. In the 1700s John Paul Jones would just make traitors "walk the plank." MV |
#28
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Detained at the whim of the president
Mike Dobony wrote:
This so-called citizen gave up those rights by serving in a foreign military. By joining teh foreign military he ceased to be a US citizen just as one does when one desires citizenship in another country. Wrong and wrong. Check current law on this subject. Ken. |
#29
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Detained at the whim of the president
"david" wrote in message om... I understand that every year a rent cheque is presented to the Cuban Government, and every year it is contemptuously burnt! Cuba has every right to tell the U.S. to pack their **** and get out, but they don't. Rumor has it they rather LIKE having a U.S. Military base there, who the hell is going to mess with Cuba with Gitmo sitting there? Sure saves Fidel a helluva lot on military expenses. |
#30
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Detained at the whim of the president
Ken Davey wrote:
This so-called citizen gave up those rights by serving in a foreign military. By joining teh foreign military he ceased to be a US citizen just as one does when one desires citizenship in another country. Wrong and wrong. Check current law on this subject. I agree. Either way, it is the Supreme Court's job to decide jurisdiction, not the President's. And last I checked these cases are making their slow way up. -- John Gaughan http://www.johngaughan.net/ |
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