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Detained at the whim of the president



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 11th, 2003, 01:26 PM
Polybus
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

user wrote in message . ..

Hmm, I think the best argument in this (somewhat complicated) case is
to consider the fact that we are are flying the American flag over
there, and the territory was sealed off, for any ordinary Cubans (even
Cuban exiles are no longer allowed to come to the base).

And since the good old Fidel took over power in Cuba the US hasn't
paid rent. One might actually argue that the base is occupied land.



For your information: the U.S. IS PAYING 2,000 DOLLARS PER YEAR !
Ever heard of SCUBA-diving and the Callypso-expeditions? (I have seen
this documentary myself!)

In 1985 President Fidel Castro told Captain Cousteau (the French
film-maker, who is also the inventor of Scuba-technology) that Cuba
does not recognize the US claim to Guantanamo and showed him the
uncashed rent payments. Captain Cousteau crossed the mined
no-man's-land to Guantanamo Base, the first non-Cuban to make the
crossing since 1961, to discuss Castro's remarks with the base
commander, who explained the base's use to train the fleet. In
contrast to the historic island, the base looks like many American
towns, complete with school bus, baseball field and McDonald's.

See also:
http://www.cousteausociety.org/tcs_e...ions_cuba.html
http://www.cousteau.org/en/
http://www.cousteau.org/en/heritage/...ions/scuba.php
http://www.cousteau.org/en/heritage/calypso/history.php

"Gitmo" as it is often called, is the oldest U.S. base outside of the
continental United States. The U.S. Navy has maintained a presence at
Guantánamo since 1903, when the area was acquired as a coaling and
naval station. The original lease agreement signed between U.S.
President Theodore Roosevelt and Cuban President Estrada Palma gave
the United States "the right to exercise complete jurisdiction and
control within and over the area. In turn, the United States
recognized the ultimate sovereignty of Cuba over the leased areas."
This original agreement was reaffirmed by a treaty signed in 1934 by
President Franklin Roosevelt.

The first American casualties of the Spanish-Cuban-American war were
two marines killed at Guantánamo on June 11, 1898. A U.S. Marine
battalion camped there the day before, marking the first U.S. presence
on the bay.

Just about five years later, on February 23, 1903, U.S. President
Theodore Roosevelt signed an agreement with Cuba leasing the bay for
2,000 gold coins per year. The agreement was forced on the puppet
Cuban government (with an American-citizen for President) through the
Platt Amendment, which gave U.S. authorities the right to interfere in
Cuban affairs.
On July 2 1906, (just before the 2nd U.S. military intervention, a new
lease is signed in Havana for Guantánamo Bay and Bahía Honda, for
which the U.S. will pay a meager $2,000 per year.

After Cubans annulled the Platt Amendment in 1934, a new lease was
negotiated between the Roosevelt administration and a U.S.-friendly
government that included Fulgencio Batista (who would later become the
worst dictator the country has ever known) as one of three
signatories. Batista emerged as the strong man on the island over the
next twenty-five years.
When the Revolution triumphed in 1959, the U.S. banned its soldiers
stationed at the bay from entering Cuban territory. Legally speaking,
Guantánamo should have been returned to Cuba at this time. (As a
principle of universal law, perpetual contracts can be cancelled at
any time)

In an interview with Soviet journalists in October 1985, U.S.
President Ronald Reagan said that the purpose of the base was
political: to impose the U.S. presence, even if the Cubans didn't want
it. Every year the U.S. sends a check for the lease amount, but the
Cuban government has never cashed them.
  #22  
Old December 11th, 2003, 01:47 PM
Francine Fishpot
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

What is wrong with you
people??? You have no clue how American Government works??? Bush
couldn't have possibly done this on his own, he had support and
guidance from the majority, which is how it works. Its so funny that
when we actually attacked these fanatics, these freedom haters, that
the majority supported the action. Now that the going is tough, we now
know who the weak are....thanks for showing us your true soul Mike


Actually, to be completely technical, YES Dubya can, could and did
begin this without the approval of the "majority". He is the
commander in chief of the military and can, at his whim, dispatch
troops as he sees fit. Only Congress can declare war, but the
president controls the troops. It's a check and balance written into
the constitution. The Tonkin Gulf Resolution authorized the use of
force in Vietnam. Congress similarly authorized the use of force in
Iraq in 1991. In Kosovo, however, there was no specific resolution
authorizing the use of force, but Congress did pass a bill to fund the
action. Congress has, however, stopped short of declaring "war" in
each case.

Just to clarify.

If you want to call anyone weak, speak of those who allowed themselves
to be manipulated by passionate, empty speeches about hunting down the
people responsible for Sept 11. What Dubya has done is take a
national tragedy and turn it into justification for attacking Iraq.
Afghanastan, yeah, that was justified, even though it turned my
stomach to do it. Iraq has never TO THIS DAY been proven to have a
link to al Queda. (And don't say that they harbored terrorists -- so
did Saudi Arabia and we're not attacking them) Iraq has never been
proven to have had a single weapon of mass destruction. It was smoke
and mirrors. The majority never supported this. They were cowered by
talk of anti Americanism. If they were weak, it was in not standing
up and calling what was wrong, wrong.
  #23  
Old December 11th, 2003, 02:31 PM
david
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

"Nik" wrote in message ...
"Charles Gray" wrote in message
...


SNIP

And since the good old Fidel took over power in Cuba the US hasn't paid
rent. One might actually argue that the base is occupied land.


Nik.


I understand that every year a rent cheque is presented to the Cuban
Government, and every year it is contemptuously burnt!
  #24  
Old December 11th, 2003, 03:24 PM
Oelewapper
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Default Detained at the whim of the president


"david" wrote in message
om...
"Nik" wrote in message

...
"Charles Gray" wrote in message
...



And since the good old Fidel took over power in Cuba the US hasn't paid
rent. One might actually argue that the base is occupied land.



I understand that every year a rent cheque is presented to the Cuban
Government, and every year it is contemptuously burnt!


Nope, a couple of years ago I saw a French documentary film, where
JJ-Cousteau was received into Castro's office. And Fidel let it be known to
the world that he kept all the checks, only worth a couple of thousand
dollars, IN THE TOP DRAWER OF HIS DESK !!! He actually showed them to the
camera, and for sure he hadn't cashed them in, and he never would!! Followed
a three and a half hour speech on why the cuban political system is - though
less pluralistic - more democratic, than its American counterpart, which he
claimed was completely corrupted by corporate money and why the U.S. should
have gotten out of Guantanamo a long time ago (as far as I remember, at the
time his arguments actually sounded quite logical to me). Anyway, a piece
of sensational filmmaking that was indeed... and so: there has been no
burning of any money or cheques.

But what about Fidel, isn't it time that Cuba did something about the Gitmo
situation? With all their talk about the revolution. At least the Cuban
Supreme Court could have made a
ruling/statement/conclusion/arrest/verdict/whatever...


  #25  
Old December 11th, 2003, 03:58 PM
DALing
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

sure... Like Billy was? get real
"Corse" wrote in message
. com...

"None" wrote in message
ink.net...
Listen, the little dicktater is worried that all this is going to hurt his
chances of re-election, since all the democratic challengers are beating

on
these issues day in and day out in the press.

Thankfully, that little prick won't be re-elected for a second term.

-----------------------

Hold that thought. He shouldn't be re-elected. He should be impeached.


Corse




  #26  
Old December 11th, 2003, 04:04 PM
edo
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

Yet another off-topic Mezei troll, and from a stolen domain:

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Subject: Detained at the whim of the president
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Ken Davey wrote:
Seems to me that the instant these 'detainees' arrived at Guantonamo they
were on US soil and were therefore entitled to the *full* protection of the
US constitution. If not that means that no one is protected. Tell me I am
wrong; Someone?; Please?


The Bush Jr defenders content that Gantanamo isn't technically US Soil. It is
Cuban soil that is leased to the americans.

However, nobody debates the fact that the folks were kidnapped and are being
held by american citizens under orders from the american government.

Funny how the USA conveniently uses the argument that since Gantanamo is not
US territory, its rules don't apply, but its rules applies outside its own
territory when it so convenient (for instance, bringing back that Walker
fellow as a showcase prize and trying him in USA courts.

Bush has gotten away with the kidnapping and illegal detention at Gantanamo
(and many US prosons across the USA) of civilians and military from
Afghanistan because the american media and public were gullible enough to
believe those claims that the kidnapped humans had no human rights.

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  #27  
Old December 11th, 2003, 06:42 PM
MTV
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

Ken Davey wrote:

Mike Dobony wrote:

This so-called citizen
gave up those rights by serving in a foreign military. By joining
teh foreign military he ceased to be a US citizen just as one does
when one desires citizenship in another country.



Wrong and wrong.
Check current law on this subject.
Ken.



In the 1700s John Paul Jones would just make traitors "walk the plank."

MV

  #28  
Old December 11th, 2003, 07:32 PM
Ken Davey
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

Mike Dobony wrote:

This so-called citizen
gave up those rights by serving in a foreign military. By joining
teh foreign military he ceased to be a US citizen just as one does
when one desires citizenship in another country.


Wrong and wrong.
Check current law on this subject.
Ken.


  #29  
Old December 11th, 2003, 07:40 PM
None
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Default Detained at the whim of the president


"david" wrote in message
om...

I understand that every year a rent cheque is presented to the Cuban
Government, and every year it is contemptuously burnt!


Cuba has every right to tell the U.S. to pack their **** and get out, but
they don't. Rumor has it they rather LIKE having a U.S. Military base
there, who the hell is going to mess with Cuba with Gitmo sitting there?

Sure saves Fidel a helluva lot on military expenses.


  #30  
Old December 11th, 2003, 07:57 PM
John Gaughan
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Default Detained at the whim of the president

Ken Davey wrote:
This so-called citizen gave up those rights by serving in a foreign
military. By joining teh foreign military he ceased to be a US
citizen just as one does when one desires citizenship in another
country.


Wrong and wrong. Check current law on this subject.


I agree. Either way, it is the Supreme Court's job to decide
jurisdiction, not the President's. And last I checked these cases are
making their slow way up.

--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/


 




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