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#31
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"Tebojockey" wrote in message ... On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:42:30 -0800 (PST), Citrus Flavor wrote: Xtile wrote: six-toes wrote: PHNOM PENH, Cambodia Cambodian officials are talking about ways to stop foreigners from coming to their country to have sex with children. They could start by arresting the pimps....but....wait....the pimps are government people, army people, hmmm...... Indeed. And if you read the AFP wire story ( http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...afp/cambodiaec onomytourismchildsex_050228070410a ) there's also this quote: "They will be looking at how the private sector, NGOs, embassies and the government can work together better, particularly in providing information, (and) arresting and prosecuting Westerners," World Vision country director Talmage Payne told reporters. So again the phantom scourge of the 'Western Pedophile' will be the focus of this latest effort, no matter that Westerners have always been a vanishingly small part of the problem. Nevermind that far and away the vast majority of pedophiles in Cambodia are either themselves Cambodian or are Chinese, Taiwanese, or Japanese businessmen or tourists. If the NGOs can identify the WHITE MAN as the problem then they can more easily go to the WHITE COUNTRIES for funding for their latest fleet of Landrovers (or some such), which is the ONLY thing any of this is about. It's a prime example of the hysterical NGO and the "protect the children" cause du jure. Now every white person going there will be the subject of self-appointed NGO overseers who will scream and shout hysterically when the person goes anywhere near a strip club. It's just a way to get noticed for the NGOs. Unfortunately for Cambodia, the biggest threat really does come from the Asian business person and sex tourist. Have you ever noticed that anytime an NGO or the government, or indeed anyone proselytizing about anything begins to lose their argument, they turn to the old standby winner: "save the children!"? I don't hold your alleged "rights" to sex tourism in high regard. It is not wise to brag about being a piece of ****. |
#32
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Chris Blunt wrote:
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 02:01:56 GMT, michael wrote: Citrus Flavor wrote: So again the phantom scourge of the 'Western Pedophile' will be the focus of this latest effort, no matter that Westerners have always been a vanishingly small part of the problem. Nevermind that far and away the vast majority of pedophiles in Cambodia are either themselves Cambodian or are Chinese, Taiwanese, or Japanese businessmen or tourists. If the NGOs can identify the WHITE MAN as the problem then they can more easily go to the WHITE COUNTRIES for funding for their latest fleet of Landrovers (or some such), which is the ONLY thing any of this is about. ... i'm as sceptical as the next guy when i hear this sort of thing, but have you got anything in the way of a reliable stat to back up your claim that "Cambodian ... Chinese, Taiwanese, or Japanese businessmen or tourists" make up the "vast majority" of pedophiles in Cambodia? ...or is this just another anecdotal derived from your standing in line behind all these folk? Its reasonable to assume that the vast majority of offenders would be Cambodian since they make up all but a very tiny proportion of the population. Why not just address the problem in a general way rather than focus on specifically targeting tourists of any particular nationality? If the government had said they were going to start a campaign against foreigners who drop litter in the street, nobody would be in any doubt that there was an ulterior motive there. Chris Have to agree. Until they cut it out completely, including what the Cambodians are doing, it will always be there. The same applies to Thailand. |
#33
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On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:09:12 GMT, michael wrote:
Chris Blunt wrote: Of course not, but your comparison is invalid because Happy Pizza is a business that few locals would be likely to visit because of its relatively high prices. Child sexual abuse is not something carried out by any particular economic, social or racial group. Most research on the subject says that the majority of children affected are abused by someone they know - either a family member or someone close to the family. The majority of offenders in Cambodia are Cambodians, just as the majority of offenders in any country are locals of that country. Trying to push the blame onto outsiders does nothing to address the real problem, but has a lot to do with getting foreign funding for NGO's and the government. bait and switch may work after all that happy pizza, but not this early in the morning... we are talking about child prostitution... not about western men travelling with their families and taking a poke at the kids after a few beers... but you already knew that, right? We're talking about a crackdown on pedophiles, and in particular about the government specifically targeting foreigners. I'm simply stating that the vast majority of pedophiles that children in Cambodia (or any other country) are abused by are locals, and probably close family members. By targeting only foreign tourists they are missing the main source of the problem. I'm not sure what part about that you have a problem with. You appear to simply want to cast doubt on what I write without making any valid point other than some irrelevant references to happy pizza. Chris |
#34
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On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:09:12 GMT, michael wrote:
Chris Blunt wrote: Of course not, but your comparison is invalid because Happy Pizza is a business that few locals would be likely to visit because of its relatively high prices. Child sexual abuse is not something carried out by any particular economic, social or racial group. Most research on the subject says that the majority of children affected are abused by someone they know - either a family member or someone close to the family. The majority of offenders in Cambodia are Cambodians, just as the majority of offenders in any country are locals of that country. Trying to push the blame onto outsiders does nothing to address the real problem, but has a lot to do with getting foreign funding for NGO's and the government. bait and switch may work after all that happy pizza, but not this early in the morning... we are talking about child prostitution... not about western men travelling with their families and taking a poke at the kids after a few beers... but you already knew that, right? We're talking about a crackdown on pedophiles, and in particular about the government specifically targeting foreigners. I'm simply stating that the vast majority of pedophiles that children in Cambodia (or any other country) are abused by are locals, and probably close family members. By targeting only foreign tourists they are missing the main source of the problem. I'm not sure what part about that you have a problem with. You appear to simply want to cast doubt on what I write without making any valid point other than some irrelevant references to happy pizza. Chris |
#35
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On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:32:16 GMT, "JosephP"
wrote: "michael" wrote in message ... Chris Blunt wrote: Of course not, but your comparison is invalid because Happy Pizza is a business that few locals would be likely to visit because of its relatively high prices. Child sexual abuse is not something carried out by any particular economic, social or racial group. Most research on the subject says that the majority of children affected are abused by someone they know - either a family member or someone close to the family. The majority of offenders in Cambodia are Cambodians, just as the majority of offenders in any country are locals of that country. Trying to push the blame onto outsiders does nothing to address the real problem, but has a lot to do with getting foreign funding for NGO's and the government. So child prostitution should continue as a tourist attraction until the entire world has eliminated child abuse ??? Not at all, but to be most effective, you should use your resources to target the main cause of the problem rather than some minority group on the sidelines. As you well know, doing that would not get the attention of the hard-currency donors from overseas, and that's what this is all about. Its about gaining publicity to obtain money to pay for shiny new Landcruisers for NGO's and government officials to ride around in. The real interests of abused Cambodian children are their least of their priorities. Chris |
#36
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On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:14:56 -0800, "PeterL"
wrote: "Chris Blunt" wrote in message .. . On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 02:03:07 GMT, michael wrote: Chris Blunt wrote: Its reasonable to assume that the vast majority of offenders would be Cambodian since they make up all but a very tiny proportion of the population. by your "reasoning" we can assume that the vast majority of happy pizza consumed on sisowath quay is consumed by cambodians... my gut instinct tells me this is idiotic... but, hey, assume away... Of course not, but your comparison is invalid because Happy Pizza is a business that few locals would be likely to visit because of its relatively high prices. We are talking about child porn as a business. They are not giving locals a discount. Where in this discussion has child porn as a business been mentioned until you introduced it now? We're talking about a crackdown on pedophiles. Child sexual abuse is not something carried out by any particular economic, social or racial group. Certainly economic group. E.g. those who can afford to pay for it. That is, not locals. Most pedophiles who abuse children are part of, or close to the child's family. The issue of money does not enter into it. Chris |
#37
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#38
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"Chris Blunt" wrote in message ... On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:32:16 GMT, "JosephP" wrote: "michael" wrote in message ... Chris Blunt wrote: Of course not, but your comparison is invalid because Happy Pizza is a business that few locals would be likely to visit because of its relatively high prices. Child sexual abuse is not something carried out by any particular economic, social or racial group. Most research on the subject says that the majority of children affected are abused by someone they know - either a family member or someone close to the family. The majority of offenders in Cambodia are Cambodians, just as the majority of offenders in any country are locals of that country. Trying to push the blame onto outsiders does nothing to address the real problem, but has a lot to do with getting foreign funding for NGO's and the government. So child prostitution should continue as a tourist attraction until the entire world has eliminated child abuse ??? Not at all, but to be most effective, you should use your resources to target the main cause of the problem rather than some minority group on the sidelines. As you well know, doing that would not get the attention of the hard-currency donors from overseas, and that's what this is all about. Its about gaining publicity to obtain money to pay for shiny new Landcruisers for NGO's and government officials to ride around in. The real interests of abused Cambodian children are their least of their priorities. Chris I do not "well know" that for a fact. For example the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is funded to a tune of 25 billion dollars to (as one of their main objectives) develop vacines for children in underdeveloped countries. I will certainly agree that various NGO's have varing degrees of effectiveness. But in the face of credible specific evidence regarding specific organizations, rambling about Land cruisers is just irresponsible - aside from the question of how to get around efficiently where roads are poor or non-existent. Even taking your hypothesis 1) Funds would not be avaiable to tacking domestic problems. 2) Funds world be avaiable to takle imported problems. Therefore that is an efficient use of resources since those resources wouldn't be available for #1 anyway. I see severe logic problems here, and a free pass for peodophiles. |
#39
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Chris Blunt wrote: We're talking about a crackdown on pedophiles, right... now read this: "Although there are sexual abuse rings and individual abusers who target large numbers of children, most children are abused by men they know. Most child sex offenders are married men, who have sex with their wives and sometimes other adult women - they are children's fathers, uncles, teachers as well as family friends and neighbours. These men do not fit the clinical definition of 'paedophile' - adults whose sexual interest is limited to children - nor do they fit most peoples perceptions of a 'paedophile' - a loner, someone with poor social skills. So most child sexual abusers are not 'paedophiles' in any clear or obvious sense." so, when you go off on a tangent about "child abuse", it seems to me you must be indulging in the herb that makes happy pizza happy... which is why my happy pizza references are not irrelevant at all... or maybe our senses of nuance in the english vocabulary are different... your implicit suggestion seems to be that the cambodian government ought to target child abuse, including the behaviour of predatory paedophiles, rather than just paedophiles... a little like suggesting that they use sticks to beat back the sea rather than build a small dike somewhere... and contrary to your sense that some western countries have actually done something about this general sexual child abuse, my sense is that they have funded treatment programs and clinical research and issued press releases that have in turn generated reams of often sensationalist media product and a vaguely "conversational" hysteria in a fairly predictable sector of the "public", and little else... sexual abuse of children within families or involving mom's boyfriend, the vast majority of abuse cases, goes on at an undiminished rate; and by no definition are therapeutic programs "successful" in their various treatment approaches to this "problem"... in other words, the usual smoke and mirrors and a little clump of westerners who can pat themselves on the back, as they've been doing since about 1450, extolling "their" superior morality... the original post mentioned Japanese, Taiwanese and Chinese businessmen and Cambodians: translation? "them there asians is a lot worse than us"... is child prostitution available in these "advanced" countries? of course... is it being targeted by governments? yes... is it fading into memory as we drift toward some morally pure "western" paradise? no, it isn't... is it readily available? yes, but only to those with means... so if you're a less-than-wealthy paedo, you drop $1500 bucks on a ticket to PP and start sticking your dick in kids at bargain prices, not kids sleeping in their beds at home, surrounded by family and familiar things while daddy diddles, which is bad enough to say the least, but kept in cages in little shacks, underfed and otherwise physically abused for years or months, and forced to be raped by fat ****s who've flown all that way and spent all that hard-earned cash to do just that... i say target them in whatever corrupt and self-serving way things get done in present-day cambodia and have at it... with funding and technical assistance from foreign police and the resultant media noise, the cambodian government COULD actually end up doing something about THIS problem, i.e. severely limit the size and extent of the child prostitution business in cambodia (which would also affect vietnam and burma and thailand)... it will be decades before they have the infrastructure to emulate western models of "dealing with" the more common forms of child sexual abuse, keeping in mind that they don't work anyway... so, yeah, target foreigners and let 'em whine... michael and in particular about the government specifically targeting foreigners. I'm simply stating that the vast majority of pedophiles that children in Cambodia (or any other country) are abused by are locals, and probably close family members. By targeting only foreign tourists they are missing the main source of the problem. I'm not sure what part about that you have a problem with. You appear to simply want to cast doubt on what I write without making any valid point other than some irrelevant references to happy pizza. Chris |
#40
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"michael" wrote in message ... Chris Blunt wrote: We're talking about a crackdown on pedophiles, right... now read this: "Although there are sexual abuse rings and individual abusers who target large numbers of children, most children are abused by men they know. Most child sex offenders are married men, who have sex with their wives and sometimes other adult women - they are children's fathers, uncles, teachers as well as family friends and neighbours. These men do not fit the clinical definition of 'paedophile' - adults whose sexual interest is limited to children - nor do they fit most peoples perceptions of a 'paedophile' - a loner, someone with poor social skills. So most child sexual abusers are not 'paedophiles' in any clear or obvious sense." so, when you go off on a tangent about "child abuse", it seems to me you must be indulging in the herb that makes happy pizza happy... which is why my happy pizza references are not irrelevant at all... or maybe our senses of nuance in the english vocabulary are different... your implicit suggestion seems to be that the cambodian government ought to target child abuse, including the behaviour of predatory paedophiles, rather than just paedophiles... a little like suggesting that they use sticks to beat back the sea rather than build a small dike somewhere... and contrary to your sense that some western countries have actually done something about this general sexual child abuse, my sense is that they have funded treatment programs and clinical research and issued press releases that have in turn generated reams of often sensationalist media product and a vaguely "conversational" hysteria in a fairly predictable sector of the "public", and little else... sexual abuse of children within families or involving mom's boyfriend, the vast majority of abuse cases, goes on at an undiminished rate; and by no definition are therapeutic programs "successful" in their various treatment approaches to this "problem"... in other words, the usual smoke and mirrors and a little clump of westerners who can pat themselves on the back, as they've been doing since about 1450, extolling "their" superior morality... the original post mentioned Japanese, Taiwanese and Chinese businessmen and Cambodians: translation? "them there asians is a lot worse than us"... Let's not forget the wonderful response of the Catholic church to it's predatory priests. is child prostitution available in these "advanced" countries? of course... is it being targeted by governments? yes... is it fading into memory as we drift toward some morally pure "western" paradise? no, it isn't... is it readily available? yes, but only to those with means... so if you're a less-than-wealthy paedo, you drop $1500 bucks on a ticket to PP and start sticking your dick in kids at bargain prices, not kids sleeping in their beds at home, surrounded by family and familiar things while daddy diddles, which is bad enough to say the least, but kept in cages in little shacks, underfed and otherwise physically abused for years or months, and forced to be raped by fat ****s who've flown all that way and spent all that hard-earned cash to do just that... i say target them in whatever corrupt and self-serving way things get done in present-day cambodia and have at it... with funding and technical assistance from foreign police and the resultant media noise, the cambodian government COULD actually end up doing something about THIS problem, i.e. severely limit the size and extent of the child prostitution business in cambodia (which would also affect vietnam and burma and thailand)... it will be decades before they have the infrastructure to emulate western models of "dealing with" the more common forms of child sexual abuse, keeping in mind that they don't work anyway... so, yeah, target foreigners and let 'em whine... michael Somehow CB's "logic" which I cannot fathom is to dance in seven different ways trying to say foreign pedophiles should not be confronted. Some of these arguments appeal to some non-sensical equal opportunity for these people, or non-fairness. |
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