Heads up - Panorama tonight, BBC1 8.30pm

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...

And people who board the wrong train aren't going to say "fair cop,
here's 20 quid". They're going to explain what has happened and hope
they get away with it.

Indeed.

I don't know about PF areas, but MX is that usually people who boarded
the wrong train are sent back from whence they came and told to
explain what happened to anyone that asks, not charged an extra fare,
Penalty or otherwise.

That would seem the reasonable action.

In message , at 18:21:44 on Tue, 27 Oct
2009, Buddenbrooks remarked:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/crime/ps/s...laidcrime?page
=6


This gives me page not found, even after correcting the wrap

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/crime/pers...ersec/multileg
alaidcrime?page=6

--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
And despite the nonsense about "contracts" spouted by Mr B, if they are
told that all they can do is pay the "full single fare" (which is in the
region of £65 for Leicester-London) a refusal will eventually end them in
court.


On what charge? Give me a reference for it ever happening.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 06:18:51 on Tue, 27 Oct 2009,
Buddenbrooks remarked:
Similarly there will not be a law just saying 'It is an offence to board a
train without a valid ticket'

You probably need to read the relevant Transport Act.

I have and any court action will be under the Railways Act 1889, penalty
fines are under the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 1994 and, The
Railways Act 1993 and Transport Act 2000. The modern acts make it legal for
the companies to fine a passenger, but the fine cannot be enforced. In which
case a prosecution can proceed under the 1889 act. The only enforcement the
rail company may do is demand a valid name and address and should they have
reasonable grounds to believe the information is false they may detain the
individual pending a member of the Transport Police.

A prosecution under the 1889 act requires proof that the passenger intended
to travel without paying, not having a ticket is insufficient where it is
possible to purchase a ticket from the conductor and have means to pay.


The following is one of the clauses defing an offence under the 1889 act:

travelling/attempting to travel on a railway without having previously paid
the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof;

Note the key word 'intent'

"Jim Mason" wrote in
message t...
In article ,

http://tinyurl.com/forlazyroland

I can now see the page, but cannot see anything on fare evasion

"David Biddulph" groups [at] biddulph.org.uk wrote in message
...

Regulation of Railways Act 1889
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content...oc Id=1061371
--

That is the relevant act and as in another post the act requires an intent
to travel without a ticket.
Remember that in 1889 the railways were private companies and the government
would not have
passed laws that allowed a private company to raise their 'terms and
conditions' to the same level as
acts of parliament.

Obviously acts after post war nationalization and before privatization
would have treated BR as an arm of the government.

A difference might be:
I worked for a branch of the government at one time and the rules were
that I could be searched on leaving the site, I could be searched on leaving
the site.
I now work for a private company and the terms and conditions of my
employment say I can be searched on leaving the site. I can be sacked for
not allowing a search, they cannot force a search.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:13:04 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

I've never heard that offered as an option for people caught on the
"wrong train" or with an "accidentally invalid"[1] ticket on an
'intercity' train.

Depends if you mean wrong time, or entirely wrong train (one that, for
instance, does not stop at the required destination). I've seen a few
cases of the latter, and in no case was any fare charged.

No, it's "pay up or else". And iirc the PF is only
£20 if the proper fare is £20, otherwise it's the higher amount.

Worse than that - it's *twice* the Anytime Single to the next stop,
after which the passenger has the option to leave the train or to pay
the Anytime Single fare for the rest of the journey.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Buddenbrooks" wrote in message
...

"Jim Mason" wrote in
message t...
In article ,

http://tinyurl.com/forlazyroland

I can now see the page, but cannot see anything on fare evasion

Click "Edit", "Find on page", Enter "Fare Evasion", Click "Find next" (or
whatever you have to do with your browser)

tim

In message , at 18:30:12 on Tue, 27 Oct
2009, Buddenbrooks remarked:
And despite the nonsense about "contracts" spouted by Mr B, if they are
told that all they can do is pay the "full single fare" (which is in
the region of £65 for Leicester-London) a refusal will eventually end
them in court.

On what charge? Give me a reference for it ever happening.

You been given references; this getting tedious.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 19:43:18 on Tue,
27 Oct 2009, Neil Williams remarked:
I've never heard that offered as an option for people caught on the
"wrong train" or with an "accidentally invalid"[1] ticket on an
'intercity' train.

Depends if you mean wrong time, or entirely wrong train (one that, for
instance, does not stop at the required destination). I've seen a few
cases of the latter, and in no case was any fare charged.

The ones I've seen most of are "accidentally invalid" tickets. Most
recent, and where the chap was indeed let off with a "don't do it again"
was buying a ticket with Family Railcard, then omitting to bring a child
along. Passenger claimed he didn't realise this was necessary.

Time before that was a lady using an Open ticket a day or to after
purchase. This used to be valid, and may be again; but this was during
the interval it wasn't. She left in no doubt that she was required to
'pay again', despite being quite distressed about it.

Meanwhile Leicester seems to be a hot-spot for "wrong train" advance
purchase tickets, to some extent because of the timetabling. There are
regular platform announcements about the peril of getting on the wrong
train. Although more recently the EMT train managers don't make nearly
so many on-train announcements about this.
--
Roland Perry