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London Police Shoot Innocent man !!!!
UK Police: Man Killed Unrelated to Probe
Saturday July 23, 2005 6:46 PM AP Photo NYET255 By JILL LAWLESS Associated Press Writer LONDON (AP) - The man shot and killed on a subway car by London police in front of horrified commuters apparently had nothing to do with this month's bombings on the city's transit system, police said Saturday in expressing their ``regrets.'' A day earlier, the police commissioner said the man was ``directly linked'' to Thursday's attacks, in which bombs on three subway trains and a bus failed to detonate properly. No one was injured. ``For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets,'' a police spokesman said on customary condition of anonymity. The man, whose identity has not been released, was shot Friday at a subway station in the south London neighborhood of Stockwell. Witnesses said the man appeared to be South Asian and was wearing a heavy padded coat when police chased him into a subway car, pinned him to the ground and shot him in the head and torso. A spokesman for Scotland Yard said on customary condition of anonymity that the man was unconnected to the incidents of Thursday, in which bombs placed on three subway cars and a double-decker bus failed to detonate properly. The spokesman also said the man was ``probably unconnected'' to the July 7 subway and bus bombings that killed 56 people, including four attackers. However, Scotland Yard would not rule out that the man was not connected to any terrorist actions. Hours after the man was killed, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair said the shooting was ``directly linked'' to the investigations. ``The man who was shot was under police observation because he had emerged from a house that was itself under observation because it was linked to the investigation of yesterday's incidents,'' police said Friday. ``He was then followed by surveillance officers to the station. His clothing and his behavior at the station added to their suspicions.'' Police investigating Thursday's attacks also said Saturday they had arrested a second man in the same south London neighborhood where the shooting occurred and another person was detained. Thousands of officers fanned out in a huge manhunt amid hopes the publication of images of four suspected attackers would lead to their capture. Security alerts kept the city of about 8 million on edge. Police briefly evacuated east London's Mile End subway station in one such incident and one witness reported the smell of something burning. Service was suspended on parts of two subway lines, but police said later the incident ``turned out to be nothing.'' The mourning continued, with hundreds packing Westminster Cathedral for the funeral Mass of Anthony Fatayi-Williams, a 26-year-old who was among the 52 people killed by four suicide bombers in the first wave of attacks on July 7. ``These present atrocities and Anthony's death have raised great emotions in us,'' Auxiliary Bishop of Westminster Alan Hopes told mourners. ``We are angry, we are appalled and we are grieving. But as Christians we cannot yield to bitterness, we cannot yield to thoughts of revenge.'' The Metropolitan Police said the second arrest late Friday was ``in connection with our inquiries'' into Thursday's attacks. The first suspect, whose identity also has not been released, was being questioned at a high-security London police station. Police would not say whether the men arrested were among the four suspected of carrying bombs onto three subway trains and a bus Thursday. The bombs failed to detonate properly and no one was injured in the attacks, which echoed the much deadlier blasts two weeks earlier. Police said they had a good response to Friday's release of the photos, taken from the British capital's ubiquitous closed-circuit surveillance cameras, which have proved a boon for investigators. The closed-circuit TV images of the suspects stared from the front pages of British newspapers Saturday. ``Faces of the four bombers,'' said the Daily Telegraph. ``The Fugitives'' said The Times. The Daily Mail labeled them ``Human Bombs.'' One image shows a stocky man in a ``New York'' sweatshirt running through a station. Another depicts a man in a white baseball cap and a T-shirt adorned with palm trees. Two others are in dark clothes, slightly obscured by a poor camera angle. These have been days of high tension, disruption and fear on the London Underground. The union for subway and bus drivers said workers would be justified in staying away from work if the government fails to take more precautions to make the operators safe. ``I think they're going to strike again,'' commuter Warren West, 27, said of the bombers. ``I think they're doing to London what's happening in Iraq.'' Heavily armed officers patrolled with clear instructions to stop suicide bombers - if necessary, with a shot to the head. ``If you are dealing with someone who might be a suicide bomber, if they remain conscious, they could trigger plastic explosives or whatever device is on them,'' Mayor Ken Livingstone. ``Therefore, overwhelmingly in these circumstances, it is going to be a shoot-to-kill policy.'' Thursday's bombs contained homemade explosives that only partly detonated, police said, adding that the attacks bore resemblance to the July 7 attacks, also on three subway trains and a bus. It was not clear if the explosives were of the same type. A statement posted Friday on an Islamic Web site in the name of an al-Qaida-linked group claimed responsibility for Thursday's attacks. Authorities, however, were skeptical. The group, Abu Hafs al Masri Brigades, has also claimed responsibility for the July 7 bombings - as it did for the 2003 New York City blackout and many other events. |
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none writes:
LONDON (AP) - The man shot and killed on a subway car by London police in front of horrified commuters apparently had nothing to do with this month's bombings on the city's transit system, police said Saturday in expressing their ``regrets.'' I guess anything is justified if the "war on terror" is the excuse. ``For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets,'' a police spokesman said on customary condition of anonymity. He makes it sound like the guy fell off a cliff, instead of being deliberately shot to death by the police. Witnesses said the man appeared to be South Asian and was wearing a heavy padded coat when police chased him into a subway car, pinned him to the ground and shot him in the head and torso. Brilliant. A spokesman for Scotland Yard said on customary condition of anonymity that the man was unconnected to the incidents of Thursday, in which bombs placed on three subway cars and a double-decker bus failed to detonate properly. It makes you wonder what the police do to people who _are_ connected to the bombings. The spokesman also said the man was ``probably unconnected'' to the July 7 subway and bus bombings that killed 56 people, including four attackers. Oh well, just keep shooting, eventually you'll hit someone who is actually guilty. However, Scotland Yard would not rule out that the man was not connected to any terrorist actions. In other words, he was innocent, as far as they know. ``The man who was shot was under police observation because he had emerged from a house that was itself under observation because it was linked to the investigation of yesterday's incidents,'' police said Friday. Well, that certainly justifies immediate execution. ``He was then followed by surveillance officers to the station. His clothing and his behavior at the station added to their suspicions.'' So he had to die. No time for an arrest or trial. Security alerts kept the city of about 8 million on edge. Police briefly evacuated east London's Mile End subway station in one such incident and one witness reported the smell of something burning. Service was suspended on parts of two subway lines, but police said later the incident ``turned out to be nothing.'' Was anyone bewitched? The mourning continued, with hundreds packing Westminster Cathedral for the funeral Mass of Anthony Fatayi-Williams, a 26-year-old who was among the 52 people killed by four suicide bombers in the first wave of attacks on July 7. Will this innocent man be added to the festivities, or does he not count? And what about the 80+ people who just died in the bombing of a resort in Egypt? Or do only dead people in London count? ``These present atrocities and Anthony's death have raised great emotions in us,'' Auxiliary Bishop of Westminster Alan Hopes told mourners. ``We are angry, we are appalled and we are grieving. But as Christians we cannot yield to bitterness, we cannot yield to thoughts of revenge.'' But we can shoot people who dress suspiciously. These have been days of high tension, disruption and fear on the London Underground. That's understandable, with the police pinning people to the ground and shooting them in the head just for looking suspicious. The union for subway and bus drivers said workers would be justified in staying away from work if the government fails to take more precautions to make the operators safe. Such as? ``I think they're going to strike again,'' commuter Warren West, 27, said of the bombers. ``I think they're doing to London what's happening in Iraq.'' Not if they can get the police to do the work for them. Heavily armed officers patrolled with clear instructions to stop suicide bombers - if necessary, with a shot to the head. How do you verify that someone is a suicide bomber before shooting him in the head? ``If you are dealing with someone who might be a suicide bomber, if they remain conscious, they could trigger plastic explosives or whatever device is on them,'' Mayor Ken Livingstone. ``Therefore, overwhelmingly in these circumstances, it is going to be a shoot-to-kill policy.'' Someone who _might_ be a suicide bomber? How does one determine how suspicious a person must be before he must be shot in cold blood? |
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Mxsmanic wrote: none writes: ``If you are dealing with someone who might be a suicide bomber, if they remain conscious, they could trigger plastic explosives or whatever device is on them,'' Mayor Ken Livingstone. ``Therefore, overwhelmingly in these circumstances, it is going to be a shoot-to-kill policy.'' Someone who _might_ be a suicide bomber? How does one determine how suspicious a person must be before he must be shot in cold blood? That's the crux of it - really the only significant issue here in terms of public policy: what did the police believe, and how reasonable was their belief? Until those questions are answered (and I do believe it will be necessary for the inquiry into the shooting to eventually answer them pretty fully without too much recourse to the cloak of 'sensitive intelligence'), discussion of the possible rights and wrongs is somewhat abstract. |
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Charles Hawtrey writes:
Guarding against terrorism, like the rest of life, is an exercise in probabilities. At one extreme you would shoot everyone who is remotely suspicious; at the other, you would never take action against anyone until until after an incident had taken place. Most people think a line should be drawn somewhere between these extremes. No doubt. So where should the line be drawn? Principled, well-meaning people have differing views on where the line should be drawn. The situation is not as black-and-white as some on either side would like to believe. Fine. Depending on where the line is drawn, innocent people will either be killed by the police or killed by terrorists. Where would you draw it? |
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Following up to none
LONDON (AP) - The man shot and killed on a subway car by London police in front of horrified commuters apparently had nothing to do with this month's bombings on the city's transit system, If you were the police, how would you have known that in, say, two seconds that were available? -- Mike Reid Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk" |
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Following up to Mxsmanic
Fine. Depending on where the line is drawn, innocent people will either be killed by the police or killed by terrorists. Where would you draw it? where would you draw it when persuing someone who you had reasonable believed was a suicide bomber? -- Mike Reid Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk" |
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"Earl Evleth" wrote in message ... On 24/07/05 8:12, in article , "Mxsmanic" wrote: The London error is all the more exceptional. My assumption is that the officer who did the shooting has been permanently removed from this particular service, transferred to a desk job regardless of the decision of a special commission which will investigate this. So his guilt or innocence is immaterial, good job you dont run the police, you'd screw up their morale in short order. In France, this investigation would be in the hands of a instruction judge. Normally they are not very permissive in such cases. It better be "self-defense" without any excuse making. You seem to be forgetting the primary excuse for shooting is NOT self defense, its protecting the public. Here we have a man who left a house under surveillance with regard to terrorist activities who refused to stop when challenged by police and then vaulted a barrier and ran onto a tube train at a time and in an area where a suicide bomber was known to be active. This amounts to an application for a Darwin award. Like it or not suicide bombers change the rules. The met has amended its rules of engagement accordingly and police ARE allowed to shoot those suspected of such activities who dont stop when challenged. Keith |
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On 24/07/05 12:43, in article , "Keith
W" wrote: If this man had been a suicide bomber he would have killed or injured everyone in the carriage. Running from armed police into a train merits a Darwin award in the current situation. True, but people do panic, they do run. Diallo, in NY, was gunned down with 41 bullets fired by 4 officers. He made the error of reaching for his wallet. In the US, Black mothers advise their teenage sons to keep they hands visible when challenged by a cop. American police often yell at a suspect to "freeze". Foreigners should learn the word ***** On October 28, 1992 Hattori Yoshihiro, a 16-year-old Japanese high-school exchange student in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, was brutally murdered. He and his American friend were going to a Halloween party. While looking for the house where the party was being held, he knocked on the wrong door. On answering the door, the lady of the house, shocked at seeing a Japanese face, screamed. Naturally, Yoshihiro didn't want to cause any trouble, so he started to walk away. Suddenly, the man of the house appeared and shouted at Yoshihiro: Freeze! Yoshihiro, not understanding that when you hear that word you must completely stop moving, turned around. That was his fatal mistake and it was the only excuse the woman's husband, Mr. Peairs, needed to blow Yoshihiro away with his gun. Poor Yoshihiro died before he could digest his last English lesson. But in a flash, the meaning of "freeze" with all its nuances was indelibly imprinted on the Japanese psyche. Today, whenever Japanese hear this word, they know exactly what to do, or more accurately, what not to do: they will do absolutely nothing; they will freeze in their footsteps. ***** "Freeze", a chilling story |
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