"Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:24:50 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:10:55 -0000, "nick" wrote:


"Keith Anderson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:29:59 -0600, Olivers
wrote:

Keith Anderson muttered....



Surprised you don't like the UK. It has a Prime Minister with his head
right up a right-wing president's arse, who's a champion of global
corporatism, who's dismantling the welfare state and privatising
everything............no wonder there are a load of surly people
around.


....and you want to replace him with a Tory?

No

(or from the sentiments which flow from your keyboard, some
disenfranchised
former Eastern European bureaucrat with genuinely authoritarian socialist
perspective)

I'd actually settle for a democratic socialist. I'm a big fan of Tony
Benn.

Socialism aint very democratic After all its the first stage of
communism, the final
stage being dictatorship.

OK, change the words to Social Democracy - I'll settle for that.
Served the UK pretty well from 1945 to the time Thatcher was elected.
Served other countries in Europe pretty well too.

Till the bill for years and years of foregone infrastructure investment
came due....

The day is yet to come where the privatisers invest in anything. At
the moment, all they're interested in doing is lining their fatcat
pockets.

There was a version of it under Franklin D Roosevelt as well.

Much prefer it to global corporatism which is Robin Hood in reverse -
rob the poor to feed the rich.

Until the ever widening gap between rich and poor narrows, I still
think global corporatism sucks.

On 8/2/04 8:24 pm, in article , "Go Fig"
wrote:

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

[...]

OK, change the words to Social Democracy - I'll settle for that.
Served the UK pretty well from 1945 to the time Thatcher was elected.
Served other countries in Europe pretty well too.

Till the bill for years and years of foregone infrastructure investment
came due....

Have you travelled by rail in the UK lately? Seen the infrastructure
investment that accompanied privatisation?

J;

nick wrote:
You've obviously never returned to LHR then. They never stop anyone,
just stand there chatting.

They stop me almost every time, frequently spending half an hour or longer
to read my letters and sniff my socks. Noplace else in the world gives me a
second look.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:24:50 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:10:55 -0000, "nick" wrote:


"Keith Anderson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:29:59 -0600, Olivers
wrote:

Keith Anderson muttered....



Surprised you don't like the UK. It has a Prime Minister with his
head
right up a right-wing president's arse, who's a champion of global
corporatism, who's dismantling the welfare state and privatising
everything............no wonder there are a load of surly people
around.


....and you want to replace him with a Tory?

No

(or from the sentiments which flow from your keyboard, some
disenfranchised
former Eastern European bureaucrat with genuinely authoritarian
socialist
perspective)

I'd actually settle for a democratic socialist. I'm a big fan of Tony
Benn.

Socialism aint very democratic After all its the first stage of
communism, the final
stage being dictatorship.

OK, change the words to Social Democracy - I'll settle for that.
Served the UK pretty well from 1945 to the time Thatcher was elected.
Served other countries in Europe pretty well too.

Till the bill for years and years of foregone infrastructure investment
came due....

The day is yet to come where the privatisers invest in anything. At
the moment, all they're interested in doing is lining their fatcat
pockets.

Do you own a cell phone ?

jay
Sun Feb 08, 2004

nightjar .uk.com wrote:

Up to a value of £145, that is true. Over that, you are liable to pay UK
import duty and VAT, but you should also be able to claim back any taxes
you paid in the USA when you export the goods.

Gregory Morrow wrote:
No. The US does not have VAT.

The only difference between VAT and sales taxes are the amount of the
tax (VAT tends to be higher) and when it is collected (point of sale vs
as the product moves along). In either case there is significant tax. FFM

On 8/02/04 17:12, in article
, "PJ O'Donovan"
wrote:

More exactly the US does not have a VAT but the individual states
have sales taxes and some cities on top of this. There are also
specific tourist taxes on hotels.

Some of the left wing nuts here who want to tax Americans into
oblivion lose
sight of these hidden taxes. I wonder how many have heard of the
alternative minimum tax that affects the so-called "rich" like the cop
on the beat whose wife is an RN, filing a joint return.

We have our accountant fill one out. I know what the "alt" calculation
is but pay no attention to it since we pay enough otherwise.

More to the point, we pay taxes both to France and the USA but I have
the feeling we get more for our tax "contributions" in France than
the USA. Basically, the French return is easy to fill out, understanding
how to fill out a US Federal return is a challenge. For instance, France
did not foolishly rush in to Iraq to waste money. I hope there is no
plan in France to join in with the anti-missile boondoggle. But of course
the French have their own set of stupidities. A condition of man.

Americans are also burdened with state income taxes in most states in
addition to state property taxes and local property taxes ----

France only does not have a state or city income tax. It does have property
taxes which typically are a fraction of what a similar tax would be in the
USA. The major revenue gatherer in France is the TVA tax.

---all in addition to Social Security taxes which are taxed 3 times for many
of the "rich" prudent enoough to save enough to generate an additional $30,000
per year past age 65.

US social security is a social insurance tax, it is designed to pay more to
lower income people than to the rich than one would calculate on an
actuarial basis. It has played a major role in raising the over 65 out of
the poverty income class, so on that basis can be judged a success.

But these taxes on the "rich" will never be enough
to placate the Marxist mentality until all are poor, suffering
together.

Certainly you are ranting! The rich of America are under taxed with regard
to the benefits they get from the economic system. For instance in the
1970-2000 period almost all of the after tax income improvement has gone to
the top 5%. I hope you are aware of the statistics on this fact?

Earl

On 8/02/04 19:08, in article ,
"nick" wrote:

Agree about London. but add New York to that list.
esp. JFK airport.


"PJ O'Donovan" wrote in message
om...
Earl Evleth wrote in message
...
On 7/02/04 17:42, in article ,
"Sjoerd" wrote:

The day AA flight from Boston to London was only about a quarter filled.
This is a great flight, less than 6 hours and one does not lose a night`s
sleep.
Earl

Best way to get to Europe from the states. We usually layover at
London airport hotel, then fly to continent next morning. No reason to
spend any time in London IMO, Lousy weather, lousy food, lousy
overpriced accommodations with a
high incidence of surly unhappy people. I avoid it as I try to avoid
Newark NJ here for the same reasons. Also try to avoid anywhere in CA
where the weather can be OK but the hi incidence of surly or crazy
people in this land of fruits and nuts coupled with exhorbitant prices
for the discomfort of being there dictates avoidance for this world
traveller.


London has great book stores, our main reason go passing through.

For instance, "Murder One" on Charing Cross Road is the best all around
crime book store we have ran into anywhere. Foyles, also on Charing Cross
is a great book store, excellent selection in the social sciences. The
Chemistry section (my profession before retiring) is excellent although they
have cut back on higher level books, mostly text books now. But it is 30 or
so feet of Chemistry books. Barns and Noble it ain't.

We found a very good Indian restaurant nearby and otherwise make do with
the food problem.

One new impression I have gathered is that British politicians are more
articulate then their American counterparts. I think it has to do with the
dynamics of their debates in the Parliament. I watched on panel debate on
BBC and found both sides stated their positions quite clearly. Whatever
Blair is he is more articulate than Bush, for instance. I think US
politicians are trained to give speeches not to getting into a verbal
slugging match with an opponent. US Presidential debate make the candidates
look like fools (the French have the same problem in this regard).

On British TV news on Friday, they had a report on a fence who sold books
out of his van, he had thieves shop lifting and supplying him. I can`t
imagine and organized book stealing gang in the US! Anyway, the book
stores are great. I think we spent about $500 on book purchase over
the last two weeks in England and the US, but London is best.

Earl







As for weather, "there will always be an England, and it will be wet"!

Earl

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:32:40 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:24:50 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:10:55 -0000, "nick" wrote:


"Keith Anderson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:29:59 -0600, Olivers
wrote:

Keith Anderson muttered....



Surprised you don't like the UK. It has a Prime Minister with his
head
right up a right-wing president's arse, who's a champion of global
corporatism, who's dismantling the welfare state and privatising
everything............no wonder there are a load of surly people
around.


....and you want to replace him with a Tory?

No

(or from the sentiments which flow from your keyboard, some
disenfranchised
former Eastern European bureaucrat with genuinely authoritarian
socialist
perspective)

I'd actually settle for a democratic socialist. I'm a big fan of Tony
Benn.

Socialism aint very democratic After all its the first stage of
communism, the final
stage being dictatorship.

OK, change the words to Social Democracy - I'll settle for that.
Served the UK pretty well from 1945 to the time Thatcher was elected.
Served other countries in Europe pretty well too.

Till the bill for years and years of foregone infrastructure investment
came due....

The day is yet to come where the privatisers invest in anything. At
the moment, all they're interested in doing is lining their fatcat
pockets.

Do you own a cell phone ?

Scraping the barrel, aren't you? Landlines (i/c fibre optic network)
laid down by BT when a public corporation. Meantime we've started to
get power cuts, the "competition" in gas is a joke (and now prices are
creeping up as they are with electricity) water prices are soon to
rise, Capita screws up the criminal records system, Jarvis cuts
corners on rail maintenance (and kills people) and constructs schools
that fall to bits in a couple of years (and bankrupts its
sub-contractors by not paying them) - and Railtrack made such a
balls-up of the rail infrastructure they've been replaced by Network
Rail - govt. owned and not for profit................. sure, we have
masts sprouting everywhere and an increase in inane loud--mouthed
conversations in public places.

Your "brave new world" is heartily detested by many in the UK. We
don't all swallow the corporatist horse****. Many of us have been
downsized, outsourced, de-skilled or had our ****ing jobs exported to
India.

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:34:24 -0000, "nick" wrote:

total and utter bull****.
clothes are much cheaper in US than UK, levi jeans are $26-30, uk they are $45-70,

So Levi Jeans are much cheaper in the US than the UK, that doesn't
mean clothes are.

Jeans seem to cost 3quid lots of places these days - okay that's not
levi's but we don't know that Levi carries the same brand in the US.

I bought a watch for $40, reduced from $65. saw it in a uk shop, for £65. that's over $100!

Right, until of course you see it next week reduced to 20quid say...

I see this a lot, importers just switch $ for £ and charge us that. And people pay it.

Then they obviously don't think it's bad value, but I also thing
that's complete rubbish, especially as most of this stuff isn't being
imported from the US...

Jim.

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:32:40 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:24:50 -0800, Go Fig wrote:

In article , Keith Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:10:55 -0000, "nick" wrote:


"Keith Anderson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:29:59 -0600, Olivers

wrote:

Keith Anderson muttered....



Surprised you don't like the UK. It has a Prime Minister with his
head
right up a right-wing president's arse, who's a champion of global
corporatism, who's dismantling the welfare state and privatising
everything............no wonder there are a load of surly people
around.


....and you want to replace him with a Tory?

No

(or from the sentiments which flow from your keyboard, some
disenfranchised
former Eastern European bureaucrat with genuinely authoritarian
socialist
perspective)

I'd actually settle for a democratic socialist. I'm a big fan of Tony
Benn.

Socialism aint very democratic After all its the first stage of
communism, the final
stage being dictatorship.

OK, change the words to Social Democracy - I'll settle for that.
Served the UK pretty well from 1945 to the time Thatcher was elected.
Served other countries in Europe pretty well too.

Till the bill for years and years of foregone infrastructure investment
came due....

The day is yet to come where the privatisers invest in anything. At
the moment, all they're interested in doing is lining their fatcat
pockets.

Do you own a cell phone ?

Scraping the barrel, aren't you? Landlines (i/c fibre optic network)
laid down by BT when a public corporation. Meantime we've started to
get power cuts, the "competition" in gas is a joke (and now prices are
creeping up as they are with electricity)

Isn't that it, we don't want to pay the real costs for these things,
after years and years of meaty subsidies ?

jay
Sun Feb 08, 2004




water prices are soon to
rise, Capita screws up the criminal records system, Jarvis cuts
corners on rail maintenance (and kills people) and constructs schools
that fall to bits in a couple of years (and bankrupts its
sub-contractors by not paying them) - and Railtrack made such a
balls-up of the rail infrastructure they've been replaced by Network
Rail - govt. owned and not for profit................. sure, we have
masts sprouting everywhere and an increase in inane loud--mouthed
conversations in public places.

Your "brave new world" is heartily detested by many in the UK. We
don't all swallow the corporatist horse****. Many of us have been
downsized, outsourced, de-skilled or had our ****ing jobs exported to
India.