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#21
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On Apr 25, 10:23*pm, abelard wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:07:26 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 7:37 pm, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 7:16 pm, abelard wrote: snip is non-perverse enjoyment ok? Tell us what it is that you enjoy and we'll tell you. watching idiots like you chase your own tails Not much joy in your life then... it's a lot more entertaining and enlightening than * *watching people chasing bulls... but it does make it more interesting if the idiot * * has some personality or special idiot-syncrazies So, pretty dire really? Do you cry much? UD |
#22
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On Apr 25, 7:39*pm, abelard wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:56:53 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 6:02*pm, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:51:45 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 4:19*pm, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:02:18 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 1:52*pm, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 04:27:33 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 12:18*pm, Holly Buddy wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8642637.stm hardy ****in ha! Nice one. A colleague of mine had a good idea about bull fighting. *He said he wouldn't mind so much if they evened it up a bit and made the matador drink a bottle of vodka before going into the ring so he wouldn't know which bull to torment. *It would be funny too - I think it lacks humour in its current "a bunch of cruel *******s mindlessly abusing animals" format. are you on the side of the islamofascists as well? So you approve of cruelty to animals then? *Looking forward to reinstating hunting and bear baiting are you? answer the question What is an "islamofascist"? *I rather suspect you made the term up because I can't find a candidate standing here. answer the question Ask away Bridge Keeper, I'm not afraid. good...so you can stop running and answer the question Which is? UD |
#23
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On Apr 25, 10:36*pm, abelard wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:25:49 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 10:23*pm, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:07:26 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 7:37 pm, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 7:16 pm, abelard wrote: snip is non-perverse enjoyment ok? Tell us what it is that you enjoy and we'll tell you. watching idiots like you chase your own tails Not much joy in your life then... it's a lot more entertaining and enlightening than * *watching people chasing bulls... but it does make it more interesting if the idiot * * has some personality or special idiot-syncrazies So, pretty dire really? *Do you cry much? you have strange concerns... Well, that's because you're a strange person, and it concerns me. Why are you scared of capital letters? Did you have an unfortunate alphabetic incident as a child? Were you scalded by a pan of red hot Alphabetti Spaghetti? Did your stack of toy blocks spelling out the word "socialist" fall on you? Is there a name for your condition? Majusculeophobia? Uppercaseosis? Abelard's Syndrome? Or are you simply miniscule? I think we should be told... UD |
#24
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On 25 Apr, 21:11, abelard wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Floating Voter wrote: On 25 Apr, 19:15, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT), McKevvy wrote: On 25 Apr, 16:20, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:09:00 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 3:19*pm, "James Silverton" wrote: snip I've never seen a bull-fight but, from TV shows, it does seem usually to be rather dangerous for the matador Anyone familiar with them will tell you that most bulls are docile and won't hurt a fly. *They get a bad press and different breeds do behave differently, but I used to happily walk alongside them as a kid being born and raised on a farm. *One particulr one - a cuddly Hereford - insisted on going in to the milking shed with the cows, so he could get some feed. *It was quite funny. *I have met a few big buggers in my time but, make no mistake, there is nothing brave about facing a dumb animal who has no idea about what is going to happen. *Any human with their wits about them would survive a bullfight, though few are so cowardly as to kill such a magnificent animal in ruthless cold blood for the perverse enjoyment of others. does your bleeding heart extend to slaughterhouses? Theyre not tormented to fee-paying public in slaughterhouses. Theyre killed quickly, painlessly and humanely perhaps you'd better read up on slaughter houses... for meat and by products. for your 'enjoyment' as another concerned poster put it... is it better when no entrance fee is paid....other than to * * your favourite restaurant? a part of your fee of course goes towards the slaughterman... * * so's you don't have to get your hands dirty.... a part of your tv fee goes towards the discussed entertainment are you claiming it's ok for your steak enjoyment but not for * * your neighbours viewing enjoyment? I think farming animals for food is defensible as long as the animals are treated compassionately. so, you're into murdering billions of defenseless animals....as * * long as you murder them compassionately.... To eat or as euthanasia or pest control, yes. For sport, no. In any case there's nothing compassionate about bullfighting. My reasoning is that it (probably) wouldn't actually be desirable if their were no predators in an ecosystem and why shouldn't man fill this role. but he mustn't chase them like a lion...but it's ok to sneak up on * * them like a pussy cat... Correct. He must kill in a way that does not cause unnecessary suffering. In bull fighting the bull is tormented for the sake of it. It is inexcusable. but the bull has a chance to get revenge.... and cheers for which the cowardly clown would grovel.... I fail to see why this is relevant. do you make up your rules by consulting a moral compass? I form my moral opinions by a combination of emotion and reason. |
#25
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
Good
-- Dirk http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show |
#26
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On 26 Apr, 02:37, abelard wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:43:11 -0700 (PDT), Floating Voter wrote: On 25 Apr, 21:11, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Floating Voter wrote: On 25 Apr, 19:15, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT), McKevvy wrote: On 25 Apr, 16:20, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:09:00 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 3:19*pm, "James Silverton" wrote: snip I've never seen a bull-fight but, from TV shows, it does seem usually to be rather dangerous for the matador Anyone familiar with them will tell you that most bulls are docile and won't hurt a fly. *They get a bad press and different breeds do behave differently, but I used to happily walk alongside them as a kid being born and raised on a farm. *One particulr one - a cuddly Hereford - insisted on going in to the milking shed with the cows, so he could get some feed. *It was quite funny. *I have met a few big buggers in my time but, make no mistake, there is nothing brave about facing a dumb animal who has no idea about what is going to happen. *Any human with their wits about them would survive a bullfight, though few are so cowardly as to kill such a magnificent animal in ruthless cold blood for the perverse enjoyment of others. does your bleeding heart extend to slaughterhouses? Theyre not tormented to fee-paying public in slaughterhouses. Theyre killed quickly, painlessly and humanely perhaps you'd better read up on slaughter houses... for meat and by products. for your 'enjoyment' as another concerned poster put it... is it better when no entrance fee is paid....other than to * * your favourite restaurant? a part of your fee of course goes towards the slaughterman... * * so's you don't have to get your hands dirty.... a part of your tv fee goes towards the discussed entertainment are you claiming it's ok for your steak enjoyment but not for * * your neighbours viewing enjoyment? I think farming animals for food is defensible as long as the animals are treated compassionately. so, you're into murdering billions of defenseless animals....as * * long as you murder them compassionately.... To eat or as euthanasia or pest control, yes. For sport, no. In any case there's nothing compassionate about bullfighting. My reasoning is that it (probably) wouldn't actually be desirable if their were no predators in an ecosystem and why shouldn't man fill this role. but he mustn't chase them like a lion...but it's ok to sneak up on * * them like a pussy cat... Correct. He must kill in a way that does not cause unnecessary suffering. In bull fighting the bull is tormented for the sake of it. It is inexcusable. but the bull has a chance to get revenge.... and cheers for which the cowardly clown would grovel.... I fail to see why this is relevant. do you make up your rules by consulting a moral compass? I form my moral opinions by a combination of emotion and reason. why do you believe others don't share your sensibilities? I'll let them talk for themselves... * * clearly your view is not shared by many spaniards... That sounds like an appeal to popularity... or why do you have such sensibilities? I believe wilful, deliberate subjecting a creature to experiences it finds unpleasant for no other reason than entertainment is wrong. I can't put it any better than that. Either you agree with me or you don't. is it because you are a superior human being? I believe people who fight bulls or pay others to fight bulls are behaving immorally. I'm sorry if that sounds sanctimonious to you. I'm not claiming my moral judgement is superior to anyone elses. I'm just stating my opinion. but you seem not to mind the sordid process of the * * slaughter house... No doubt there is room for improvement. |
#27
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On 26 Apr, 18:47, abelard wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 10:33:24 -0700 (PDT), Floating Voter wrote: On 26 Apr, 02:37, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 17:43:11 -0700 (PDT), Floating Voter wrote: On 25 Apr, 21:11, abelard wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:53:44 -0700 (PDT), Floating Voter wrote: My reasoning is that it (probably) wouldn't actually be desirable if their were no predators in an ecosystem and why shouldn't man fill this role. but he mustn't chase them like a lion...but it's ok to sneak up on them like a pussy cat... Correct. He must kill in a way that does not cause unnecessary suffering. In bull fighting the bull is tormented for the sake of it. It is inexcusable. but the bull has a chance to get revenge.... and cheers for which the cowardly clown would grovel.... I fail to see why this is relevant. do you make up your rules by consulting a moral compass? I form my moral opinions by a combination of emotion and reason. why do you believe others don't share your sensibilities? I'll let them talk for themselves... so your moral opinions are purely personal preferences? I don't see it that way. My moral opinions can not be proven objectively true but neither are they purely subjective matters of personal preference in the way that, for example, the music I chose to listen to is. if so, why would anyone else care? clearly your view is not shared by many spaniards... That sounds like an appeal to popularity... it is a statement of fact or why do you have such sensibilities? I believe wilful, deliberate subjecting a creature to experiences it finds unpleasant for no other reason than entertainment is wrong. I can't put it any better than that. Either you agree with me or you don't. i'm not looking for 'agreement' or 'disagreement' i'm much more interested in why you drift in the directions * * you assert.. I don't believe any moral judgement can be proven correct by pure reason from matters of fact so I assert the moral postulate that one should show compassion towards any entity that has an emotional life and work from there. *much more* why you seem to believe it is your * * right to impose those views on others I have no special moral authority to impose my views on others. I don't need any special moral authority to declare what my views are. is it because you are a superior human being? I believe people who fight bulls or pay others to fight bulls are behaving immorally. I'm sorry if that sounds sanctimonious to you. it doesn't 'sound' anything to me... what interests me is why you have a view about the behaviour * * of others in that context Do you have a view on whether or not it is OK to rape little children? If so, why does it puzzle you that I have views about the behaviour of others in different contexts? this becomes even more mysterious in your comment above * * where you say you'll let other talk for themselves!! I don't care to explain the logic behind positions I don't advocate. If anyone wants to advocate bullfighting I will let them explain why. I'm not claiming my moral judgement is superior to anyone elses. I'm just stating my opinion. so your 'moral judgement' is irrelevant outside of yourself.... My moral judgement governs how I behave. It also governs how I believe others ought to behave. yet...yet... you see a purpose in broadcasting it Maybe I just enjoy debate.... as you claim that you don't claim that your 'moral judgement'.... does that mean that the moral judgement of bull fighters and * * *aficionados have a pov precisely equally relevant and * * *praiseworthy as your own??? Not quite. From the fact that I disagree with their POV it follows that I believe their POV is wrong. All I'm saying is that I am no more qualified to make moral judgements than they are. but you seem not to mind the sordid process of the slaughter house... No doubt there is room for improvement. now that could indeed be easily be argued... And unless I've missed something the best attempt at justifying bullfighting in this thread so far is that there is no relevant difference between that and eating meat. This fails because even if you don't accept my attempted justifications for meat eating, one evil does not justify another. |
#28
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
I believe people who fight bulls or pay others to fight bulls are behaving immorally. I'm sorry if that sounds sanctimonious to you. it doesn't 'sound' anything to me... what interests me is why you have a view about the behaviour * * of others in that context Do you have a view on whether or not it is OK to rape little children? so now you equate fighting bulls with children... and bull fighters with paedophiles... Not at all. to me that indicates that your moral position a very great deal * * more dubious than was previously apparent... or you merely trying to change the subject in a 'strange' * * and desperate manner? The point of bringing paedophilia into the discussion was my attempt to help you understand why I believe I am entitled to have a view of the behaviour of others. If you have a view regarding whether or not it is OK to rape children then you also make moral judgements upon other people. Either it's reasonable to make moral judgements on other people's behaviour or it isn't afaics. If so, why does it puzzle you that I have views about the behaviour of others in different contexts? see above.... meanwhile your views appear to go beyond views to attempting * * *to control the behaviour of others it seems to me you have a choice.... either make it clear you wish to run other people's lives as do * * most leftists.... You can look at it as a wish to control other people's lives if you want. I look at it as a wish to prevent them from controlling the bulls life in that manner. or give up your mad relativism... I am not a relativist, at least not in the way I understand the term. I believe that some moral codes are better than others. However the only faculties I have to compare the relative strength of different moral codes are reason, emotion and experience. Undoubtedly other factors like social conditioning have an influence over me but the point is other people also have reason, emotion, experience, social conditioning, etc. so I can not provide a reason why you should consider my PoV more important than anyone elses. i don't see how you can hang on to both those dubious positions... neither do i see any route to you reasoning sanely while holding * * either of your 'weird' axioms...let alone both of them Well I hope my answers above will help clear things up for you. |
#29
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On 25 Apr, 19:10, abelard wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 18:28:34 +0100, AlanG wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 07:09:08 -0700 (PDT), aquachimp wrote: On Apr 25, 4:06*pm, AlanG wrote: On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 04:27:33 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Dave wrote: On Apr 25, 12:18*pm, Holly Buddy wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8642637.stm hardy ****in ha! Nice one. A colleague of mine had a good idea about bull fighting. *He said he wouldn't mind so much if they evened it up a bit and made the matador drink a bottle of vodka before going into the ring so he wouldn't know which bull to torment. *It would be funny too - I think it lacks humour in its current "a bunch of cruel *******s mindlessly abusing animals" format. I've never seen a bullfight until recently. Was on holiday in spain and got stuck in the hotel room for a few hours while it ****ed down outside. I flicked through the tv channels and spotted a bullfight. There is very little bravery in facing a tormented animal that is weakened and bleeding to death from blades stuck in it. Adding to which, a link within that page is headlined as "Matador aged 11 kills six bulls" but the video shows the "bull" *to be about calf sized. I didn't follow the link. Bullfighting disgusts me and I'm not squeamish. I belonged to the fishing, shooting fraternity for a long time and have no poblems with killing an animal cleanly but tormenting one while it bleeds to death is just torture. so what is your position on halal? I've read that halal is a humane slaughter method. That was on a pro- Islam site so I don't know if I should believe it but the explaination was much better than I could find on any of the anti-Islam sites that claimed it was cruel. I haven't found a credible source to suggest that it is cruel, unless you consider slaughter to be cruel per se. whaling? My second hand sources say it is impossible to humanely kill a whale. If true it is a serious AW issue. foxes killing chickens? How can foxes be subject to human moral codes? AFAICs the question is only relevant if we want to consider exterminating all predators. I see no reason to advocate such a policy. cats playing with mice? Nature is cruel. That doesn't justify humans in being cruel IMHO. and fluffy bunny rabbits? They're fluffy... regards |
#30
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Star bullfighter Jose Tomas gored in Mexico
On Apr 27, 1:54*am, abelard wrote:
snip so again you equate bulls with humans...? I do. They're both full of ****. UD |
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