YEA!!! No Common Platform Ships!!!

From Seatrade Insider:

Carnival Corp. has finally seen the light. One size does not fit all.

Ernie - feeling somewhat relieved.

=========================
Carnival working on new-generation ships
18/7/2005

Carnival Corp. & plc is working on various prototype designs for its major
brands and is talking with Fincantieri, Chantiers de l'Atlantique, Aker
Finnyards and Mitsubishi, Seatrade Insider has learned.

The company will not use a common platform for several brands as it has in
the past. 'A common platform, no,' Carnival vice chairman Howard Frank told
Seatrade Insider. 'It's very difficult to find a common platform given the
concept differences and the product differences, especially with Holland
America and Princess and Carnival.'

All the designs under consideration are larger than existing vessels and a
couple options are being considered for Carnival, Princess and Costa, Frank
disclosed.

The largest is the Carnival brand's Pinnacle project, believed to be in
excess of 200,000gt. That design is understood to be finalized, however it
awaits a stronger dollar to euro exchange rate.

'Now is still not the proper time to order ships for the U.S. market,' Frank
said. He expressed optimism that could change, citing the recent
strengthening of the U.S. economy and the continued sluggishness of the
European economies. 'The exact point at which we're comfortable ordering? I
don't think I have any point in mind,' Frank said. The current forward euro
exchange rate is still $1.26 to $1.27, which he indicated is too high.

A Fincantieri source felt confident that orders would materialize if the
forward exchange rate approaches the range of $1.15-$1.18.

This isn't surprising. It's cyclical. Companies try to use common
platforms then they go away from it and then back to it and away and so
on and so on.

Next, smaller ships. Yes, they'll get bigger and bigger, but there's a
point where people will get turned off by them. Then 40,000 to 70,000
tons may become chic again.

Ben S.


E.k.R. wrote:



From Seatrade Insider:

Carnival Corp. has finally seen the light. One size does not fit all.

Ernie - feeling somewhat relieved.

=========================
Carnival working on new-generation ships
18/7/2005

Carnival Corp. & plc is working on various prototype designs for its major
brands and is talking with Fincantieri, Chantiers de l'Atlantique, Aker
Finnyards and Mitsubishi, Seatrade Insider has learned.

The company will not use a common platform for several brands as it has in
the past. 'A common platform, no,' Carnival vice chairman Howard Frank told
Seatrade Insider. 'It's very difficult to find a common platform given the
concept differences and the product differences, especially with Holland
America and Princess and Carnival.'

All the designs under consideration are larger than existing vessels and a
couple options are being considered for Carnival, Princess and Costa, Frank
disclosed.

The largest is the Carnival brand's Pinnacle project, believed to be in
excess of 200,000gt. That design is understood to be finalized, however it
awaits a stronger dollar to euro exchange rate.

'Now is still not the proper time to order ships for the U.S. market,' Frank
said. He expressed optimism that could change, citing the recent
strengthening of the U.S. economy and the continued sluggishness of the
European economies. 'The exact point at which we're comfortable ordering? I
don't think I have any point in mind,' Frank said. The current forward euro
exchange rate is still $1.26 to $1.27, which he indicated is too high.

A Fincantieri source felt confident that orders would materialize if the
forward exchange rate approaches the range of $1.15-$1.18.

E.k.R. wrote:

From Seatrade Insider:

Carnival Corp. has finally seen the light. One size does not fit all.

Ernie - feeling somewhat relieved.

=========================
Carnival working on new-generation ships
18/7/2005

Carnival Corp. & plc is working on various prototype designs for its major
brands and is talking with Fincantieri, Chantiers de l'Atlantique, Aker
Finnyards and Mitsubishi, Seatrade Insider has learned.

The company will not use a common platform for several brands as it has in
the past. 'A common platform, no,' Carnival vice chairman Howard Frank told
Seatrade Insider. 'It's very difficult to find a common platform given the
concept differences and the product differences, especially with Holland
America and Princess and Carnival.'

One word for Mr. Frank: Duh.

Wonder why it took them so long to figure this out.

How B

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
nk.net...
This isn't surprising. It's cyclical. Companies try to use common
platforms then they go away from it and then back to it and away and so on
and so on.



To me it's very surprising. I didn't think Carnival was quite finished with
this "cycle" of one size fits all mentality.

Ernie

"Karen" wrote in message
...

Sadly, I don't think that will happen. Carnival has a huge monster on
tap as one of its next new ships, 190,000-200,000 tons huge. Plus,
there's just no money in the smaller ships. It's all about revenue.
If it were not, we'd still have the Rotterdam V.

Karen


I agree Karen. The only smaller ship we may see ordered (for the N.
American market) is if someday tonnage is added to the Seabourn and Windstar
brands. This is highly unlikely anytime soon.

There are three relatively small ships currently under order for the AIDA
brand (part of Carnival Corp). They are around 60,000 gt each. Of course
these ships are designed specifically for the German market which is in it's
infancy when compared to the US. Their ships will only get larger moving
forward as well, keeping in line with the trend in the US.

I believe HAL's new class will be slightly larger than the current Vista
Class, probably right around 100,000 gt. I don't think Costa will receive
anything larger than the Conquest Class, but I expect Carnival and Princess
to receive very large "next generation" ships.

Passenger ships will reach a size limit when "economies of scale" become
maxed out under current shipbuilding technology. Until technology and life
saving equipment is modified and improved, I believe 200,000 gt is around
the maximum economy of scale benefit before the scale levels off.

Ernie

Karen wrote:

Benjamin Smith wrote:


This isn't surprising. It's cyclical. Companies try to use common
platforms then they go away from it and then back to it and away and so
on and so on.

Next, smaller ships. Yes, they'll get bigger and bigger, but there's a
point where people will get turned off by them. Then 40,000 to 70,000
tons may become chic again.


Sadly, I don't think that will happen. Carnival has a huge monster on
tap as one of its next new ships, 190,000-200,000 tons huge. Plus,
there's just no money in the smaller ships. It's all about revenue.
If it were not, we'd still have the Rotterdam V.


There was a time where there were Titanics, Queens, Normandie and
France, or big ships (for their time). But in the 60s and 70s there
was the Pacific Princess and other fairly small ships. Bigger is better
was done before throughout human history. Economic conditions and means
aren't static, they are dynamic, and today's means may change just as
corporate dynamics and social input change.

I think it can happen. I can not predict when, nor will I as I'm not
into predictions in terms of a time. Cars, houses, resorts, all have had
their cycles of relative large and small, and companies find their way
to make money. A lot of small cars make tons of money, and small ships,
you just have to find a way. Perhaps they'll be smaller HAL, Celebrity
ships but bigger charges for excursion packages or other blends along
with the cruise. I do think that big has a limit, and at some point
people will find ships just too big with too many passengers to
enjoy--at least for some lines.

With automobiles, the SUV is cycling down now, the bestselling ones are
now minivan size or smaller and the behemoths sales are down.

Ben S.

Karen



__ /7__/7__/7__
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews ®
(...and leave off the "pastry" to e-mail)

Karen wrote:

"E.k.R." wrote:


"Benjamin Smith" wrote:


This isn't surprising. It's cyclical. Companies try to use common
platforms then they go away from it and then back to it and away and so on
and so on.


To me it's very surprising. I didn't think Carnival was quite finished with
this "cycle" of one size fits all mentality.


Ernie, I don't think they will actually do it on a permanent, on-going
basis. Carnival Corp. makes lots o' money and using universally
designed and interchangeable ship platforms allows them to keep on
makin' more money. Being individual and distinctive is not what it's
all about for them.


There are different ways of doing it. Some are obvious, like the
Carnival/Costa ships. The Costa ships are just Carnival ships with
different funnels and inside, different themeing from Mr. Farcus. The
RCI Radiance/Celebrity Millennium connection isn't as obvious, and there
are more modifications.

Ford now uses a Volvo platform for its new midsize car, and Volvo,
Jaguar, Mazda, and Ford share some common elements, yet is is hard to
tell as the car manufacturers have figured out a way to have a common
platform yet make distinct vehicles.

But distinctive and individual *is* what it is turning in to. That's why
they are going towards a different type of shared platform, but they
won't call it a shared platform. There's nothing straightforward or
honest about most business, it is a lot like politics, you have to read
in between the lines and also find out information about how it is
really done. I mean, Blockbuster is saying there are no more late fees.
Yet, if you bring in something late it is considered a sale and then you
can reverse the sale by paying a "restocking" fee. That's a late fee,
it's all a bunch of BS to make it sound like something else. So, there
will be platform sharing, but distinction, if valued in the overall
society as a "selling point" will certainly be what Carnival claims to
promote and enough deception that the products are distinct, with
perhaps a strong degree of real distinction, will be the selling points.

Ben S.

Karen

__ /7__/7__/7__
\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews ®
(...and leave off the "pastry" to e-mail)

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 14:44:58 -0400, E.k.R. wrote:

Passenger ships will reach a size limit when "economies of scale" become
maxed out under current shipbuilding technology. Until technology and life
saving equipment is modified and improved, I believe 200,000 gt is around
the maximum economy of scale benefit before the scale levels off.

Is that a guess or an educated guess?
--
"The free society willingly provides the tools that the dictatorship needs
to control it later."

"Chrissy Cruiser" wrote in message
...

Is that a guess or an educated guess?



Neither. It's been explained by shipyard and cruise industry execs in
several articles relating to current shipbuilding practices and ship size.
You just have to read the right articles, and they can't be found in the
fluff publications directed at the consumer.

Ernie

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 16:23:11 -0400, E.k.R. wrote:

"Chrissy Cruiser" wrote in message
...

Is that a guess or an educated guess?

Neither. It's been explained by shipyard and cruise industry execs in
several articles relating to current shipbuilding practices and ship size.
You just have to read the right articles, and they can't be found in the
fluff publications directed at the consumer.

Ernie

Hadn't caught that, thanks. Hm, wonder what drives this, structural steel,
engine sizes, *hydro*dynamics LOL?
--
"The free society willingly provides the tools that the dictatorship needs
to control it later."