Denmark to restrict radical imams

Tim Kroesen wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
Tim Kroesen wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
Anyway, you still haven't answered the question. If I have a machine
which is guaranteed to fertilize an egg 45 minutes from now, is it
already human? Why or why not?

It contains all the human potential (and individual genetic identity)
that human will ever have...

So am I committing murder if I turn the machine off?

The questioning is getting a bit ridiculous, no?

The questioning is getting at the point that you have selected an arbitrary
and indefensible border between "human" and "non-human". You're unable to
defend the border past just repeating "it's obvious" and unwilling to
explore its nature. You're not even willing to define "human".

This suggests to me that your position is entirely based on irrational
emotion and not at all on any of the "scientific" thought that you were
tossing around in the beginning of the discussion.

Which is fine - you're entitled to your emotional position - but don't try
to pawn it off as rational or scientific.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/

Tim Kroesen wrote:

What hypocrisy? I believe that by calculated action that cruelly and or
calculatedly or for gain robs another of their right to live out their
lives; the ultimate depravation of *their most basic right*; may cause
the forfeiture of your own as legal penalty. It's not a hard
'compromise to make considering the willful nature of the offense when
the penalty is known in advance; and clearly benefits society as
deterrent...

Some may rightful argue that life in prison is even more cruel; yet what
deterrent would you have for the most egregious crime of all; something
less cheapens and bargains the value of the extinguished life.

If human life is so sacred, then it is as sacred to the convicted murdered
as it is to anyone else, including the victim, and IMO, more sacred to even
the worst criminal than to freshly conceived fetus.

Tim Kroesen wrote:
It contains all the human potential (and individual genetic identity)
that human will ever have...

So does each flake of your dandruff.

Tim Kroesen wrote:

So we blame the shortcomings of the parents on the children they
produce??? If a child is abused they should be removed from the home
until such parental abuse or ignorance is resolved; temporarily or
permanently.

If a child is unwanted, the mother should NOT be forced to bear it!


God 'biblically states that humans were made 'in his image and
likeness'; not so stated regarding any other forms of life.

That's assuming one BELIEVES in the literal truth of what one reads in
the "bible"! (But "divinely inspired" or not, the "holy books" of ALL
the world's religions were written by fallible human beings, NOT "god" -
and nowhere more glaringly than in matters of religion is it true that
"to err is human"!)

I don't use
that to imply that other forms of life are less rewarding to God. I
firstly cannot understand the mind of God; I never can in my human
nature. Understanding God's mind, therefore commandments (rules to
live by) are not a prerequisite to obedience; faith in a benevolence and
love beyond our understanding indeed is...

You may have a point, there - only a very long-suffering "all powerful"
god would have allowed a failed experiment like humanity to continue as
long as it has! (Or perhaps it's a game - all the gods are watching and
placing bets as to how long it will take us to destroy ourselves?)

Magda wrote:

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 02:49:16 +0100, in rec.travel.europe, "Sjoerd"
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

...
... "Tim Kroesen" schreef in bericht
... link.net...
... God 'biblically states that humans were made 'in his image and
... likeness'; not so stated regarding any other forms of life. I don't use
... that to imply that other forms of life are less rewarding to God. I
... firstly cannot understand the mind of God; I never can in my human
... nature. Understanding God's mind, therefore commandments (rules to
... live by) are not a prerequisite to obedience; faith in a benevolence and
... love beyond our understanding indeed is...
...
... Can you understand that a lot of people do NOT believe in God? I don't have
... a problem with you believing in fairy tales, but don't force that crap upon
... other people.
...
... And for your information, human beings were not created but evolved from all
... kinds of organisms during a millions years process.

When I see Kroesen and his... "ideas"... I wonder why we bothered.

I suspect some are more "highly evolved" than others!

Dave Smith wrote:

Tim Kroesen wrote:

Actually I'm pro death penalty. Please tell me what horrible socially
egregious act an unborn child might commit to merit such penalty...

Funny, but you wouldn't admit that when I suggested the Fisherman
Phenomenon (throw the little ones back in and kill them when they get
bigger) some time ago. I have always been intrigued by the Sanctity of Life
rationale in the abortion issue and the hypocrisy of opposing abortion but
being in favour of the death penalty.

You're not alone! (I often think that, if "God" exists, He/She must
frequently weep over the things Mankind does in His/Her name!)



Tim K

"Sjoerd" wrote in message
...

"Tim Kroesen" schreef in bericht
hlink.net...
A 'human' is produced every time human sex cells combine properly;
that
doesn't mean every birth naturally runs to term. Never said
anything
else. Human death is human death; one celled human life and beyond.
Only your 'convenient thinking' will see it differently as you
arbitrary
decide when a human becomes *human enough* to suit your agenda
regarding
human rights to life...

I don't fall down that slippery slope of logic; human life obviously
begins at conception; therefore that human deserves the same rights
as
all do; born or unborn.

BTW; I'll be glad to post up some abortion picture links of *6-8*
week
old in-utero babies to let you (and all) decide if they look 'human
enough' yet to merit your concern for their human rights.

Just wondering if you are against the death penalty.

Sjoerd

Miguel Cruz wrote:


Which is fine - you're entitled to your emotional position - but don't try
to pawn it off as rational or scientific.

What can you expect of a country where "Creationists" can not only lobby
to have their "emotional positions" taught in the schools as a viable
"alternate theory" to evolution (with all the wealth of evidence to
which the latter can point as positive proof), but actually be pandered
to by some school systems? Somehow, the notion of a God who created the
Earth with all fossils intact, purely to confuse people who consider
such things scientific evidence, doesn't fly! (Or rather, smacks too
much of something his "opposite number" might do.) Is it reasonable to
worship a God who opposes the use of the reasoning ability with which
that God presumably endowed us? There are many things science does NOT
know, and many theories it cannot (yet) prove. However, the "theory" of
evolution is not among them!

"Miguel Cruz" skrev i meddelandet
...
Tim Kroesen wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
Anyway, you still haven't answered the question. If I have a machine
which is guaranteed to fertilize an egg 45 minutes from now, is it
already human? Why or why not?

It contains all the human potential (and individual genetic identity)
that human will ever have...

So am I committing murder if I turn the machine off?

miguel
-------------------------------------------------
Seem to be the case at least if you wear a condom as the pope have banned
condoms.
But let's see , now and then it happens that I'm embracing my female
workmates, could be a birthday or so. At that moment we are rather "close"
to each other,however nothing happens as we usually have pants. Should
pants be banned for true Catholics as they are a hindrance for conception ?