Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

Carole Allen wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 19:34:19 GMT, "TOliver"
wrote:
Just what is expensive? A high premium? My health bill, already
myself on

Medicare, so a "supplement" plus coverage for a wife not yet 65, runs a bit
over $1,000 a month plus the Medicare premium, not very high and not always
very good.


I guess as a taxpayer I am paying for your medicare coverage, eh?
(It's not self-supporting through premiums.) Talk about
bottom-feeders!

Isn't medicare also paid for by withholding taxes of 2.9 percent levied
1/2 against the employer and 1/2 against the employee? Do you think
Toliver was not involved in paying this 2.9 percent for many years?
It should be noted that unlike the old age and survivor's tax, there is
no limit on the amount that can be collected at 2.9 percent.
I really doubt that the with the average of $9000 per year for the past
5 years, and the rest of the money collected from my employment for 52
years or more is going to cost you anything when I am eligible medicare.

"mrtravel" wrote ...
Carole Allen wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 19:34:19 GMT, "TOliver"
wrote:
Just what is expensive? A high premium? My health bill, already
myself on
Medicare, so a "supplement" plus coverage for a wife not yet 65, runs a
bit over $1,000 a month plus the Medicare premium, not very high and not
always very good.


I guess as a taxpayer I am paying for your medicare coverage, eh?
(It's not self-supporting through premiums.) Talk about
bottom-feeders!

Isn't medicare also paid for by withholding taxes of 2.9 percent levied
1/2 against the employer and 1/2 against the employee? Do you think
Toliver was not involved in paying this 2.9 percent for many years?
It should be noted that unlike the old age and survivor's tax, there is no
limit on the amount that can be collected at 2.9 percent.
I really doubt that the with the average of $9000 per year for the past 5
years, and the rest of the money collected from my employment for 52 years
or more is going to cost you anything when I am eligible medicare.

I have been paying for Medicare for a while, come to think of it, probably
at an annual amount somewhat greater than Carole pays to prop up the
program, one which forms the best reason that most politicians are unwilling
to vote for "Universal Health Care", having some idea as to the potential
costs and level of service, especially if delivered by government.

Carole's problem is a failure to comprehend that catastrophic illness
befalls rich and poor and the middle class, and that part of attempting to
maintain life in the amorphous "Middle Class" is figuring out how to pay for
health insurance. Most of us find that the most realistic method is by
maintaining employment with employers who heavily "subsidize" our health
insurance by paying alarge portion of it. A major part of my decision to
become self-employed involved appreciation of just how much my health
insurance would actually cost (and to be able to pay it, month in and month
out), insuring that should I or my wife come down with one of those dreadful
diseases, that we would be "covered" against a large portion of the
expenses. I sympathize with every American whose income or ability to
generate income is not adequate to provide health care (and are "too well
off" for Medicaid), but I have no sympathy for a individual with an severe
illness who choses to be a "self-employed flooring contractor", knowing that
in doing so he is making the provision of health insurance for he or his
dependents impossible or unaffordable. He has made a voluntary choice.
Neither law nor economics guarantees him access to health care based upon
that choice, while next door an individual with the same condition is
covered because his has sought employment which provides insurance at
reasonable cost. Even under some "universal" health care system in the US,
cocts will remain high, and the self-emplyed will be as they are now with
Social Security, be forced to "double-dip", paying both emplyee and employer
costs. Interestingly, the rate of individual self-employment in the US is
considerably higher than that in Western Europe, evidence that even in
societies where a larger spectrum of social and economic benefits are
provided by the state and tax system, self-employment is no bargain hunter's
venue, but an avenue open to those willing to accept the much higher built
in costs of the privilege.

I suspect that Carole's parameters of wisdom concerning health insurance are
about equal to those of her knowledge of WMDs and the variety of causes,
good, bad and indifferent, which drew the US, the UK, the Australians and
several other countries into Iraq (mainly, that having failed in 1991 to
complete the job, cutting the head off the buzzard in charge and attempting
then - with a braod coalition unwilling now to admit their mistakes and
omissions - to construct a state with some form of representative government
and structure. Having had acquaintances who flew recon over Iraq between
1991 and 2003, rarely ever without the persistent electronic hum of tracking
radars, missile radars and gunnery radars (and the oaccasional missile lock
and firing) from the unrepentant Iraqis below, the re-invasion of Iraq, a
country which since agreeing to cease fire conditions had lived up to few if
any of them, busily butchered Kurds and Marsh Arabs, and continued with the
sort of despotic policies which had initially made it the target of
invasion by most of the world's civilized nations and no few uncivilized
ones, was inevitable if not unavoidable. Were Iraqs WMD capabilities
over-estimated? Sure, buy nearly every one (inc. France) who particiapted
in INTEL analysis. Looking back, we might have been far better off to
over-estimate the German capacity for horror in 1936 or 1938., or to have
better understood in 1937 upon what course the Japanese Empire was
embarking. We didn't; the world didn't, and from 1939 until 1945, many
millions paid with their lives for our collective failure to appreciate the
threats we faced.

I'd just as soon the US have entered the inevitable mess of trying to form a
country out of a madhouse of diverse and unfriendly factions now than to
have waited 5 years until Saddam managed to manufacture a new generation of
locally developed CB weapons or even a Bomb of his own. Having once, long
ago, served - albeit briefly and in less danger than most - in a conflict
waged for the wrong reasons and with questionable methodolgy, I find it
easy to appreciate that both military and political leadership in the US and
the UK did not entirely appreciate the internal mutual and gross contempt
many Iraqis felt for those of their fellow countrymen of different
ethnicity - the Kurds - or a different perspectives on the fate and fame of
immediate descendants of the Prophet. Having hopefully grown beyond
denominational blood-letting, we failed to appreciate the lusty fervor with
which various groups, domestic and foeign, in Iraq would attempt to whittle
away at each other (and us when in the way). Had the situation not been
sobadly screwed up by an artificial gerrymandering back in 1919 or so, one
might make the point that Iraq as we know it should never have existed (but
then the UK had to do something for the Hashemites, since the House of Saud
was getting their chunk of watelandf and the oil under it). Unfortunately,
modern geopolitics makes partition now unlikely if not impossible (and
impossible to accomplish with fairness and equity in the distribution of
national wealth, the oil in the ground being not equally dispersed under
ground able to be divided 3 ways).

TMO

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 21:41:25 GMT, mrtravel
wrote:

Dave Frightens Me wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 21:34:22 GMT, mrtravel
wrote:


John wrote:


How many people with many different pre-existing health conditions can
afford these high premiums?

Why should someone else pay for them?

Because the overall cost is lower?

Lower for him, not for the majority

And for the majority.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

"TOliver" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote .



My son is a skilled craftsman in his chosen profession.
So your advice to my son is to quit his profession and get a job at
Wal-Mart to "maybe" be covered for his pre-existing condition.


Hundreds of thousands, even millions of Americans are good at their
trades, yet few if any of them are able to be self-employed.

??????????

Most of us spend our
lives worrking for others, from WalMart to Enron to the federal government
to a variety of high and low paying employers. "Skilled Craftsman?" The
workshops of the world are full of skilled crafts(wo)men who are forced by
economics to work for others. What "inalienable right" does your son
possess which guarantees him "self-employment"? Often, workers accept
jobs to feed their families and maintain health insurance for them. I
worked for others until my early 50s, only then having the capital to
start my own business. Your son is no more deserving of being able to
punch his own clock than most other sons and daughters.


Wow. What a strange view of the world. Even the most blatant capitalists
support entrepreneurship.

On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:12:58 -0400, "Sarah Banick"
wrote:


"TOliver" wrote in message
. ..

"John" wrote .



My son is a skilled craftsman in his chosen profession.
So your advice to my son is to quit his profession and get a job at
Wal-Mart to "maybe" be covered for his pre-existing condition.


Hundreds of thousands, even millions of Americans are good at their
trades, yet few if any of them are able to be self-employed.

??????????

Most of us spend our
lives worrking for others, from WalMart to Enron to the federal government
to a variety of high and low paying employers. "Skilled Craftsman?" The
workshops of the world are full of skilled crafts(wo)men who are forced by
economics to work for others. What "inalienable right" does your son
possess which guarantees him "self-employment"? Often, workers accept
jobs to feed their families and maintain health insurance for them. I
worked for others until my early 50s, only then having the capital to
start my own business. Your son is no more deserving of being able to
punch his own clock than most other sons and daughters.


Wow. What a strange view of the world. Even the most blatant capitalists
support entrepreneurship.



The dark side of toliver comes through when he is pressed enough and
responding when he is drunk or on drugs.

On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:12:58 -0400, "Sarah Banick"
wrote:


"TOliver" wrote in message
. ..

"John" wrote .



My son is a skilled craftsman in his chosen profession.
So your advice to my son is to quit his profession and get a job at
Wal-Mart to "maybe" be covered for his pre-existing condition.


Hundreds of thousands, even millions of Americans are good at their
trades, yet few if any of them are able to be self-employed.

??????????

Most of us spend our
lives worrking for others, from WalMart to Enron to the federal government
to a variety of high and low paying employers. "Skilled Craftsman?" The
workshops of the world are full of skilled crafts(wo)men who are forced by
economics to work for others. What "inalienable right" does your son
possess which guarantees him "self-employment"? Often, workers accept
jobs to feed their families and maintain health insurance for them. I
worked for others until my early 50s, only then having the capital to
start my own business. Your son is no more deserving of being able to
punch his own clock than most other sons and daughters.


Wow. What a strange view of the world. Even the most blatant capitalists
support entrepreneurship.



The dark side of toliver comes through when he is pressed enough and
responding when he is drunk or on drugs.

Dave Frightens Me wrote:

On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 21:41:25 GMT, mrtravel
wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:


On Fri, 07 Jul 2006 21:34:22 GMT, mrtravel
wrote:



John wrote:



How many people with many different pre-existing health conditions can
afford these high premiums?

Why should someone else pay for them?

Because the overall cost is lower?

Lower for him, not for the majority


And for the majority.

How does giving a lower price if they have existing health conditions
make it cheaper for the majority?

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:39:10 GMT, "TOliver"
wrote:
I sympathize with every American whose income or ability to
generate income is not adequate to provide health care (and are "too well
off" for Medicaid), but I have no sympathy for a individual with an severe
illness who choses to be a "self-employed flooring contractor", knowing that
in doing so he is making the provision of health insurance for he or his
dependents impossible or unaffordable. He has made a voluntary choice.

What about the person who is self-employed BEFORE the disease
strikes, and cannot thereafter get alternate paid employment with
benefits?

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:39:10 GMT, "TOliver"
wrote:
I suspect that Carole's parameters of wisdom concerning health insurance are
about equal to those of her knowledge of WMDs and the variety of causes,
good, bad and indifferent, which drew the US, the UK, the Australians and
several other countries into Iraq snipped

I do know people who have served in the military in Iraq, and one of
whom, after two years active duty) was an employee of Blackwater.
Corruption and incompetence abound in the leadership... and war
profiteering (once a dirty word) is at an all time high.

Carole Allen wrote:

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 14:39:10 GMT, "TOliver"
wrote:
I sympathize with every American whose income or ability to

generate income is not adequate to provide health care (and are "too well
off" for Medicaid), but I have no sympathy for a individual with an severe
illness who choses to be a "self-employed flooring contractor", knowing that
in doing so he is making the provision of health insurance for he or his
dependents impossible or unaffordable. He has made a voluntary choice.


What about the person who is self-employed BEFORE the disease
strikes, and cannot thereafter get alternate paid employment with
benefits?

If he was insured when the disease hits, there would be no problem.
Being self employed is no excuse for not being insured, and that
financial risk shouldn't be imposed on the rest of us.