Are Cruise deals over?

In article , Tom &
Linda wrote:

"Lloyd Parsons" wrote in message
...


Think corporate greed. Its happened in almost all other industries,
why should the cruiselines be different. I think they are looking at
those full sailings and figure that why discount when you can get full
price?


But the cruise lines are NOT the ones offering the discounting. The
discounting is coming out of the TA commissions - not from the cruise line's
income. What they're in effect doing is forcing the TA to take their full
commission, and not share it with customers. But the discounting they're
trying to get rid of doesn't impact the amount of money the cruise line took
in. At least not so long as you use a TA.

This goes deeper, most likely.

Yep, it seems idiocy abounds in all of this. For the cruiseline, it
changes nothing as you say, but for the passenger it does change
things. My point was that maybe the lack of discounting will hurt the
cruiselines more than they think it will.

This brings the cruise agent pricing the same as TA pricing - so long as the
TA's can't rebate. It reduces the incentive to use a TA. And if you don't
use a TA, the cruise line doesn't need to pay a commission. So, what's
next?

--Tom

I would use a TA because there is no reason not to. The lines aren't
going to give me the commission.

I figure that there will be other incentives from aggressive TA's, at
least for awhile. I would think this would give the smaller shops a
bit more leverage than they've had in a long time.

Might be interesting....

In article , Tom &
Linda wrote:

"Lloyd Parsons" wrote in message
...


Think corporate greed. Its happened in almost all other industries,
why should the cruiselines be different. I think they are looking at
those full sailings and figure that why discount when you can get full
price?


But the cruise lines are NOT the ones offering the discounting. The
discounting is coming out of the TA commissions - not from the cruise line's
income. What they're in effect doing is forcing the TA to take their full
commission, and not share it with customers. But the discounting they're
trying to get rid of doesn't impact the amount of money the cruise line took
in. At least not so long as you use a TA.

This goes deeper, most likely.

Yep, it seems idiocy abounds in all of this. For the cruiseline, it
changes nothing as you say, but for the passenger it does change
things. My point was that maybe the lack of discounting will hurt the
cruiselines more than they think it will.

This brings the cruise agent pricing the same as TA pricing - so long as the
TA's can't rebate. It reduces the incentive to use a TA. And if you don't
use a TA, the cruise line doesn't need to pay a commission. So, what's
next?

--Tom

I would use a TA because there is no reason not to. The lines aren't
going to give me the commission.

I figure that there will be other incentives from aggressive TA's, at
least for awhile. I would think this would give the smaller shops a
bit more leverage than they've had in a long time.

Might be interesting....

Think corporate scam.
After a great uproar, the cruises lines will offer less severe changes.
Everyone will cheer that they backed down.
And the cruise lines will actually get the changes they wanted in the first
place.
It is all a game.
And the TAs and the public are the losers.


"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
. net...

"SNUMBER6" wrote in message
...


Exactly ... this makes no sense whatsoever ...
I constantly watch the cruise price of cruises I'm interested in ... for
instance one had a starting balcony price of $1200 ... eventually there
was a
few days period where it dropped to $850 for new bookings ... now down
to
$350
off the starting price (in between price drops occurred) ... Now when
that
$850
price became effective ... I could find offers between $815 and $850
among
competing online TA's ... The gist I'm getting is that they are worried
that
cruisers would be upset at that difference of $35 advertised by online
TA's ...
and are banning that butcruisers would not complain about the $350 drop
the
cruise lines themselves offered ???


Something doesn't seem right here.

Maybe it's really an attempt to put all TA's out of business.

Perhaps it's the first salvo from the oligapolies to crush anything small.

--Tom

Think corporate scam.
After a great uproar, the cruises lines will offer less severe changes.
Everyone will cheer that they backed down.
And the cruise lines will actually get the changes they wanted in the first
place.
It is all a game.
And the TAs and the public are the losers.


"Tom & Linda" wrote in message
. net...

"SNUMBER6" wrote in message
...


Exactly ... this makes no sense whatsoever ...
I constantly watch the cruise price of cruises I'm interested in ... for
instance one had a starting balcony price of $1200 ... eventually there
was a
few days period where it dropped to $850 for new bookings ... now down
to
$350
off the starting price (in between price drops occurred) ... Now when
that
$850
price became effective ... I could find offers between $815 and $850
among
competing online TA's ... The gist I'm getting is that they are worried
that
cruisers would be upset at that difference of $35 advertised by online
TA's ...
and are banning that butcruisers would not complain about the $350 drop
the
cruise lines themselves offered ???


Something doesn't seem right here.

Maybe it's really an attempt to put all TA's out of business.

Perhaps it's the first salvo from the oligapolies to crush anything small.

--Tom

You will not be getting group rates from the cruise
line...so, you will pay more. The concept of group rates
with extra amenities are going to become a much bigger
issue, as they used to be. So you will not necessarily get
the lowest price from the cruise line, as they will not
offer group rates, or that bottle of wine...

When you are looking for the best price on an airline
ticket, it much easier to call a travel agent with a GDS
system in his office. He can command the entire spectrum of
airlines with his computer and find you the lowest price and
the best routing far better than calling the airlines
direct, one at a time. This is a service, we do it every
day and we get paid for it. But then, there are people who
insist on doing everything themselves...we understand that too.

Peter

dep_blueman wrote:

So, if you can't expect to get a better price from one TA to the next
then a lot of people will just book directly /w RCCL. Yes, some will
want the extra services a TA may offer but many don't need it; they
just want the lowest price on the right cruise. If I knew I could get
the lowest price directly /w Celebrity and felt I would get the
service I would need from them I don't know if I would book with a TA
or not.

With most TAs charging customers to book airline tickets (when other
higher commission travel is not booked) many consumers have gone
directly to the airline web sites. Even Expedia.com charges for
tickets! This is a direct result of the changes to the commission
structure by the airlines. Just like the airlines, you all know what
the next move will be. RCCL (and/or others) will start to 'adjust'
their commission structure to TAs. It may not be as drastic as the
air industry but it will move in that direction.

Just IMO.

-D

(FUNCRUISES) wrote in message ...

I just attended Royal Caribbean's Partners in Excellence Luncheon in Miami
yesterday. The meeting was conducted by Lisa Bauer, VP of Sales; Dan Hanrahan,
VP of Marketing; and Richard Fain, Chairman of Royal Caribbean himself were in
attendance.

All three spoke on this issue, and they made it perfectly clear that there will
be NO rebating of commission ONLINE or OFFLINE of Royal Caribbean or Celebrity
Cruises.

There will be no mail in rebates, no membership discounts, no password
protected websites that offer rebates, etc etc etc. In other words, no
rebating of Royal Caribbean cruises whatsoever.

Travel Agents may only promote and sell approved pricing promotions, which
includes group rates if the agency has them.

Whoever said book by August 15th at midnight was not kidding. Anyone caught
selling Royal Caribbean below Royal Caribbean's prices after 8/16 could be in
big trouble.

Carnival will allow agencies to offer discounts over the phone, but not online.

I heard it straight from the horse's mouth.

Better book em while you can.

Uf Tukel
WMPH Vacations
Home of CruiseCheap.com and AlaskaCruises.com
1-800-439-1909

--
Peter Berlin
Peter Berlin's Travel Center http://peterberlin.com
The Great Luxury Cruise http://peterberlin.com/groups/glc2005/
The Great Group Cruise 2005 http://ggc2005.com "We've Got
The Spirit"
Join us on the Millennium and Spirit Bash...Oct. 31 and Dec.
5, 2004

You will not be getting group rates from the cruise
line...so, you will pay more. The concept of group rates
with extra amenities are going to become a much bigger
issue, as they used to be. So you will not necessarily get
the lowest price from the cruise line, as they will not
offer group rates, or that bottle of wine...

When you are looking for the best price on an airline
ticket, it much easier to call a travel agent with a GDS
system in his office. He can command the entire spectrum of
airlines with his computer and find you the lowest price and
the best routing far better than calling the airlines
direct, one at a time. This is a service, we do it every
day and we get paid for it. But then, there are people who
insist on doing everything themselves...we understand that too.

Peter

dep_blueman wrote:

So, if you can't expect to get a better price from one TA to the next
then a lot of people will just book directly /w RCCL. Yes, some will
want the extra services a TA may offer but many don't need it; they
just want the lowest price on the right cruise. If I knew I could get
the lowest price directly /w Celebrity and felt I would get the
service I would need from them I don't know if I would book with a TA
or not.

With most TAs charging customers to book airline tickets (when other
higher commission travel is not booked) many consumers have gone
directly to the airline web sites. Even Expedia.com charges for
tickets! This is a direct result of the changes to the commission
structure by the airlines. Just like the airlines, you all know what
the next move will be. RCCL (and/or others) will start to 'adjust'
their commission structure to TAs. It may not be as drastic as the
air industry but it will move in that direction.

Just IMO.

-D

(FUNCRUISES) wrote in message ...

I just attended Royal Caribbean's Partners in Excellence Luncheon in Miami
yesterday. The meeting was conducted by Lisa Bauer, VP of Sales; Dan Hanrahan,
VP of Marketing; and Richard Fain, Chairman of Royal Caribbean himself were in
attendance.

All three spoke on this issue, and they made it perfectly clear that there will
be NO rebating of commission ONLINE or OFFLINE of Royal Caribbean or Celebrity
Cruises.

There will be no mail in rebates, no membership discounts, no password
protected websites that offer rebates, etc etc etc. In other words, no
rebating of Royal Caribbean cruises whatsoever.

Travel Agents may only promote and sell approved pricing promotions, which
includes group rates if the agency has them.

Whoever said book by August 15th at midnight was not kidding. Anyone caught
selling Royal Caribbean below Royal Caribbean's prices after 8/16 could be in
big trouble.

Carnival will allow agencies to offer discounts over the phone, but not online.

I heard it straight from the horse's mouth.

Better book em while you can.

Uf Tukel
WMPH Vacations
Home of CruiseCheap.com and AlaskaCruises.com
1-800-439-1909

--
Peter Berlin
Peter Berlin's Travel Center http://peterberlin.com
The Great Luxury Cruise http://peterberlin.com/groups/glc2005/
The Great Group Cruise 2005 http://ggc2005.com "We've Got
The Spirit"
Join us on the Millennium and Spirit Bash...Oct. 31 and Dec.
5, 2004

This is a definite problem....and not what I understood the new policy
to be. So there will be no, NO selling of a cruise for less than what
RCCL/X say it should be sold for. My current TA does rebate, so she
would be prohibited from doing this. Hmmmmmm.....I'm rethinking what
lines I'm going to book with now!

Jeff



FUNCRUISES wrote:

So how will the cruise line's police the "No Rebating Online or Offline"
policy? For all bookings made after August 16th, the travel agent must call in
the entire balance due to Royal Caribbean or Celebrity. In the past, if a
travel agent sold a $1000 cruise to his customer for $950, then the travel
agent could call in $950 on the customer's credit card. Now he has to call in
the full $1000. If he doesn't, a red flag goes up and identifies the agency as
a rebater.

This is a definite problem....and not what I understood the new policy
to be. So there will be no, NO selling of a cruise for less than what
RCCL/X say it should be sold for. My current TA does rebate, so she
would be prohibited from doing this. Hmmmmmm.....I'm rethinking what
lines I'm going to book with now!

Jeff



FUNCRUISES wrote:

So how will the cruise line's police the "No Rebating Online or Offline"
policy? For all bookings made after August 16th, the travel agent must call in
the entire balance due to Royal Caribbean or Celebrity. In the past, if a
travel agent sold a $1000 cruise to his customer for $950, then the travel
agent could call in $950 on the customer's credit card. Now he has to call in
the full $1000. If he doesn't, a red flag goes up and identifies the agency as
a rebater.

You are darn right about that Tom. It is a 2 way street.

Jeff


Tom & Linda wrote:

How much should a TA earn per hour? Or per year?

Does he/she live in NYC or Kansas? California or Mississippi? The home the
TA pays $200 thousand for in Indiana might cost $2 million in California.
So what they need to make may differ by where they live. If you earn $100
thousand a year in Iowa, you're probably doing very well. You might even
live in a mansion. On the upper west side of NYC, on $100 thousand salary,
you're living in the equivalent of an inside cabin with no air conditioning.

How much time do they spend on my booking?

Am I a one time customer? 10 Times Customer? What if I've given the TA 5
other recommendations. What if I have given them 10 repeat customers?

Does the TA send me brochures that I keep in the house, or do I take them to
work and pass them out to prospective clients for the TA? Did I set up a
group sailing one time? Or do I forget the TA once the cruise is over?

It's a 2 way street.

--Tom

You are darn right about that Tom. It is a 2 way street.

Jeff


Tom & Linda wrote:

How much should a TA earn per hour? Or per year?

Does he/she live in NYC or Kansas? California or Mississippi? The home the
TA pays $200 thousand for in Indiana might cost $2 million in California.
So what they need to make may differ by where they live. If you earn $100
thousand a year in Iowa, you're probably doing very well. You might even
live in a mansion. On the upper west side of NYC, on $100 thousand salary,
you're living in the equivalent of an inside cabin with no air conditioning.

How much time do they spend on my booking?

Am I a one time customer? 10 Times Customer? What if I've given the TA 5
other recommendations. What if I have given them 10 repeat customers?

Does the TA send me brochures that I keep in the house, or do I take them to
work and pass them out to prospective clients for the TA? Did I set up a
group sailing one time? Or do I forget the TA once the cruise is over?

It's a 2 way street.

--Tom