QM2 Vs. RCCL

Ray Goldenberg wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 04:13:51 GMT, Benjamin Smith
wrote:


The QM2 doesn't have any rock climbing wall or roller skating. What does
the number of pax have to do with having these features? These are RCI
features on a paticular class of ship, not something that all 3000 pax
ships have.


Hi Ben,

The rock climbing wall was such a hit that Royal Caribbean announced
that they were putting them on all of their ships.


Thanks, they are being retrofitted to the other classes of ships and I
think that they were part of the original Radiance class. The roller
skating is unique to Voyager (Eagle) class (so far).

Ben


Best regards,
Ray
LIGHTHOUSE TRAVEL
800-719-9917 or 805-566-3905
http://www.lighthousetravel.com

E.k.R. wrote:
Very well put Karen and I agree completely. Cunard is all over the place
and has been for as long as I can remember. They have a very uneven product
across the board, much like NCL was for years. Much of their reputation is
on name alone, and that is the extent of it. Some aspects are pure luxury
(for the privileged few), others are downright budget (like the cold cuts
and hot dogs for an embarkation lunch in the Lido). QM2 and QV are the
start of a new era for Cunard. I only envision QE2 around for a few years
at best as the Cunard fleet becomes more and more modernized.

Ben mentioned that maybe "luxurious" as opposed to "luxury product" would be
a better term for QM2. Probably so, but I can define many "Premium"
products (including Celebrity) as "luxurious". I would like to know exactly
what sets QM2 apart (real, tangible items) from say the MILLENNIUM. Is it
larger cabins? No. Better service? Remains to be seen and certainly not
so on QE2. More luxurious furnishings? Doubtful, as very high quality
furnishings were used on MILLENNIUM. Single sitting? Nope, neither ship
offers it. Higher quality food? Again, remains to be seen and certainly
not the case on QE2. Maybe it's the afternoon tea? Yes, Cunard excels in
this area but does "tea" make a product "luxurious"? How about
entertainment? Well, both offer a variety of nice lounges, shows, lectures,
etc. I don't see much difference there. Maybe it's the personalized
stationary, no tipping, and all drinks included? Oops.... wrong cruise
line, neither offer it. So what does it really come down to? The prices?
Oh yes, they are certainly higher on Cunard, and I might add unrealistically
so.



I think that Celebrity markets to the middle income mainstream where
Cunard is still marketed towards a more "privileged" customer. I think
furnishings will outdo Millennium, but in subtle ways that discerning
eyes will notice. I think Millie has a poor variety of lounges, but
that's my feeling specific to the class, I love the Century ship's
variety and quality of lounges. I think there is more emphasis, variety,
quality in lectures on Cunard and it is not a strong point on Celebrity.
I think there's more run-in-the-mill type of activities and
entertainment on Celebrity. I think there's more noticeable promotion of
stuff, a harder sell on Celebrity (compared to Cunard). Celebrity, while
having a more defined fleet than Cunard, is quite inconsistent itself,
with sometimes marvelous food and service and other cruise aspects, and
sometimes spotty food, service, communication, organization, etc.

For the most part when I go on ship visits I look for approach. And
that's the thing that comes out to me. How does the staff approach
people? Was is the overall tone being set? This, of course, can't be
determine in a few hours, but I try to get something of a sense of the
line. I think product's approach and target customers is the initial
sense and then the follow through with execution and real vs. target
customers encountered. The customers can set a tone even if the approach
is different than what the customers will provide. So, here's where
Cunard will have problems pricing the product to get the target
customers and have execution follow approach. Theoretically, with more
up-to-date equipment, Cunard can get expand on their customer base, but
with their target customers wanting a certain onboard lifestyle, and not
make the compromises the mainstream marketed as premium lines have made.
I'm not that confident it'll happen, though, and the QM2's purposing may
be modified.


Really it is the name Cunard. I think Cunard's PR department has done an
incredible job convincing Ben and many others that a Cunard ship is the
finest, most luxurious, and well run object on the high seas.

I said that! I don't think that. Yes, Cunard carries a name. Do I
think it is finest? Absolutely not. Do I think it a rung higher than
HAL/Celebrity? I haven't sailed the line but that's my feeling about them.

The prices
are certainly in line with this assessment, but the product, well, it's not.
Basically you can call QE2 and QM2 "ocean liners", and QM2 can be the
longest, fastest, widest, tallest, etc., etc., etc...... but that still does
not place her in the "luxury" category of cruises.


I think --est should be de-emphasized. I think trying to build her up as
the new standard of excellence for Cunard, and maybe mentioning her size
as part of a grand experience would be more appropriate than just --est.
I think it is how she will be viewed through time as being worth the
expense of building her should be emphasized. Honestly, I think she's
too big. However, that's the size that their business numbers experts
calculated she should be to be economically viable.

I think QM2 is
magnificent and can guarantee that I will sail on her, and I already know
her decor is fabulous, but I will not go onboard expecting the tangibles
that make Silversea a luxury product.


Ernest, Silverseas, as far as I know, is the highest-rated cruise line.
I'm not equating Cunard with Silverseas. But Cunard can offer a British
style cruise with the QM2, a ship with some of the feel of the liners of
yore (and compromised, if you will, with the resort feel of today's
ships), a ship whose staff evokes some of the feel of the best of yore.
I want to make a sort of aside of the "yore" time. I don't, for one
minute, think all was dandy and fine in the days of "yore". In fact,
much about the time I find objectionable. I think today's time has some
advantages. But I think that in most times we can find something that,
in retrospect, should be preserved. Every line has something to offer
that another line does not, and I think some of what Cunard has to offer
is in line with luxury products yet in a unique way, though the
product's particulars don't put it in the same category as the highest
luxury products.

They are simply not offered. Glass
elevators, plantariums, and three level dining rooms do not a luxury product
make!


Don't know if I agree with that. I see nothing wrong with three- level
dining rooms, especially if they are divided in a way that makes for
superb service and intimacy within the grand setting. Planetariums? Not
sure, maybe will function as learning center. Glass elevators are a
variant on elevators, glass for panoramic views. I don't like them, though.


Ben, I know you don't like my term "ultra-premium" but I think you are going
to see it in the future. The cruise industry requires another category,
something between "premium" and "luxury" and if the term "ultra-premium" is
not used, it will be something else.

I agree, I don't have a better term right now.

As the term "premium" has become
overused and it's definition diminished, a new rung of cruise lines have
emerged that are certainly superior to what we now know as "premium", but
not quite up to "luxury" standards. I think this new category will become
an industry standard as cruise lines continue their attempts to
differentiate themselves from the pack.


Yep. I'm so glad to see a thread on Cunard. It is a line with some real
challenges ahead.

Ben S.


Ernie







"CupCaked" wrote in message
...


Every Cunard ship out there has a different reputation. Not one can
be defined as a typical "Cunard" ship right now. When the Queen Vic
gets here, she'll be just another Vista class ship with the Cunard
name, but that may not be a bad thing, considering how the QM2 may be
regarded by that time.

Cunard is all over the place, in terms of the kind of service it
provides. It's been that way for years and years, even before
Carnival Corp took over. One must really know the product, ie the QE2
and it's class accommodations and restaurants, to get in on what's
good about it. One thing that has been mentioned, and is absolutely
true, is that Cunard will do themselves in by their pricing some day
soon.

Karen




__ /7__/7__/7__
\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

I have to agree! It also looked like it might topple over at any second.

Lunyma wrote:

I saw that too, and I have to say, that this being the first time I had a
glimpse of this ship, I thought it looked like one of the ugliest tubs afloat.
I'm sure the inside is much nicer than the outside

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
...

Yep. I'm so glad to see a thread on Cunard. It is a line with some real
challenges ahead.

Ben S.


Why does Cunard have any challenges what so ever?

They have Carnival's near monopoly and all their money behind it. They have
Carnival's Marketing. They have Carnival's muscle with regard to volume
price breaks on everything they need to buy.

If they can't fill the behemoth at inflated prices based on marketing hype
they'll just slash prices, cut food quality, cut service and push capitalism
to the N'th degree (bingo, art auctions, QM2 souvenir glasses, cheap jewelry
sales, gold by the inch, wine tastings, etc.) just like EVERY other line
with a big ship does. That's a proven scenario that works.

At pricing like Destiny, they'll fill the ship.

End of challenges. It's today's reality

And if they can keep filling the ship at inflated pricing... that's even
better for the bottom line.

It's 2004. 1995, when pricing was much higher and food was much better...
is long gone. That was almost a decade ago.

--Tom

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
...

Thanks, they are being retrofitted to the other classes of ships and I
think that they were part of the original Radiance class. The roller
skating is unique to Voyager (Eagle) class (so far).

Ben


As is the ice rink.

--Tom

In article , Tom &
Linda wrote:

If they can't fill the behemoth at inflated prices based on marketing hype
they'll just slash prices, cut food quality, cut service and push capitalism
to the N'th degree (bingo, art auctions, QM2 souvenir glasses, cheap jewelry
sales, gold by the inch, wine tastings, etc.) just like EVERY other line
with a big ship does. That's a proven scenario that works.

.....a couple of line snipped

And if they can keep filling the ship at inflated pricing... that's even
better for the bottom line.

That is exactly right Tom. You might have a hard time selling that to
Ben though. He is somewhat of a romantic who thinks that a good name or
good whatever is enough to overcome the way the economic system we live
under works.

--
Charles

"Charles" wrote in message
d...
In article , Tom &
Linda wrote:

If they can't fill the behemoth at inflated prices based on marketing
hype
they'll just slash prices, cut food quality, cut service and push
capitalism
to the N'th degree (bingo, art auctions, QM2 souvenir glasses, cheap
jewelry
sales, gold by the inch, wine tastings, etc.) just like EVERY other line
with a big ship does. That's a proven scenario that works.

....a couple of line snipped

And if they can keep filling the ship at inflated pricing... that's even
better for the bottom line.

That is exactly right Tom. You might have a hard time selling that to
Ben though. He is somewhat of a romantic who thinks that a good name or
good whatever is enough to overcome the way the economic system we live
under works.


And from what I've heard, Cunard never even had a good name. It was White
Star that was special. Cunard was more into the middle level and steerage
while White Star was the classy one.

--Tom

Glad we are taking our cruise before they put in rock climbing on
RCCL,when they start to have it on all ships we will stop cruising

They were mostly 3 class ships in those days, but exactly what the proportions
were, that would be an interesting subject to research (Remember how many
steerage passengers were lost on the Titanic, for example). I do remember
reading that it was highly competitive, and besides White Star and Cunard,
ships from France, Germany and Italy were certainly in the running too.
Looking at my picture books, they all looked very opulent (in First Class of
course).

They also had extra charges in those days for liquor and keepsakes, but not to
the extent we see now on every modern day ship. As transports, they hosted the
barons of capitalism. The amenities were targeted at those men and women.
They charged the price going in. So in a way, capitalism has been firmly
rooted in ocean transportation from day one.

Transported back to those days, I doubt any of us would be satisfied with
anything less than first class. Its what we think of when we think of those
grand liners. Its what we see depicted in most of the photography.

Inch of gold, bingo, the photo gallery, the art auction, etc., these things,
along with an international crew, allow us to afford this great pastime in the
first place. At least those of us that can't afford Silversea.

Yes, some ships carry this off with more tact than others. Yes, it can get
annoying at times. But, in perspective, not enough to stop me from enjoying
the experience. I suspect, that the QM2 will be one of the more tactful ones,
but we can't review it without seeing it for ourselves. This is going to be an
interesting year in cruising, to say the least.

IMHO, of course I could be wrong.

jt

And from what I've heard, Cunard never even had a good name. It was White
Star that was special. Cunard was more into the middle level and steerage
while White Star was the classy one.



Linda wrote:

If they can't fill the behemoth at inflated prices based on marketing
hype
they'll just slash prices, cut food quality, cut service and push
capitalism
to the N'th degree (bingo, art auctions, QM2 souvenir glasses, cheap
jewelry
sales, gold by the inch, wine tastings, etc.) just like EVERY other line
with a big ship does. That's a proven scenario that works.

....a couple of line snipped

And if they can keep filling the

Glad we are taking our cruise before they put in rock climbing on
RCCL,when they start to have it on all ships we will stop cruising


Don't be so quick to put it down. What it does is give teens something to do
as part of their entertainment. The fact that some of us adults occassionally
may climb too sure doesn't hurt.

I kinda like the fact that RCI is keeping teens occupied and out of trouble.
Since when was this a bad thing?


Cruising is like being awake, and dreaming!

Visit my cruise page:
http://parnami.tripod.com/