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#111
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
devil wrote in message ...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:44:03 -0800, Tchiowa wrote: Do you need to understand Bernoulli's Principle to know that flying is safe? Or which airline to choose? No, and anyway it's a gross oversimplification.\ I disagree. Planes will fly whether or not you know the scientific principle behind it. You can see for yourself by studying statistics and news that planes are safe. Same principle for Capitalism. You don't need to know who said what in 1582 about Capitalism. You can see for yourself in the real world that it works. But spelling his name right might help. :-) I did. :-) Lucky for me. Haven't spelled it since college and that was a looooong time ago. http://www.mste.uiuc.edu/davea/aviat...Principle.html Not surprising. In the meantime, try looking at what Socialism did to a billion Chinese and a quarter of a billion Russians and maybe you'll begin to understand. The maybe you can reply to yourself. Actually, in both cases, one might build a case to the effect that it served them quite well. This should be interesting. Particularly for China, the peasant leader Mao and his peasant rebellion (in the best Chinese tradition BTW) certainly helped rebuild a country that had been mired in a hopeless civil war, torn between small time warlords and their presonal interests. Make no mistake, without Mao, China would be much much worse today. Not htat this has much to do with socialism, except to the effect that they used the label. Actually if you compare where China is with where Taiwan is the primary difference is the economic system. No question that Taiwanese people live better than mainland Chinese, on the whole. You say China progressed under Mao and Socialism. Ending the wars and having relative peace certainly helped. But hundreds of millions of people ended up living in poverty. Ask yourself how much better they would be now if Mao hadn't imposed Socialism. To help answer that, look at the areas in China where limited Capitalism is now being permitted. People can own their own land and businesses and benefit directly from the profits. China is booming and poverty is being reduced. Poverty that was largely caused (or kept in place) by Socialism. Russia is more controversial. Still, before 1917, Russia was a mediaval backwater. No more than the rest of Europe, particularly Eastern Europe. And the fall of the soviet regime was precipitated by the cold war and the incapacity of the relatively poor country that Russia was (and always had been) to compete on military spending. So why was Russia so poor after nearly a century of a Socialist economy? Answer: nearly a century of a Socialist economy. Futhermore, it's not that now that Russia is no longer socialist it is now significantly better. But it is. Have you been there? I have. Also some of the other 'stans and former SSRs (like Kazakhstan, Latvia). Things have improved dramatically. Go to Moscow. The lines of babushkas wrapped around city blocks waiting to buy bread that most likely won't be there are mostly gone. (Now there are lines around the block trying to get in to the McDonald's.) Most problems are structural and cultural. Largely orthogonal to the ideology of the day. It will take time to change the mindset of people to understand that the promises of Capitalism and Free Enterprise work. The current older generation may already be lost. Millions of people whose lives were permanently damaged by Socialism. The younger generation doesn't have the same fatalistic mindset. They will succeed. Correct: *are succeeding*. |
#112
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"DN" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... SNIP Your attempt at debating centuries old writings is nothing more than an attempt to divert attention away from the real world. This really is the last time "Tchiowa", that reply to you on this issue. Not surprising. In the meantime, try looking at what Socialism did to a billion Chinese and a quarter of a billion Russians and maybe you'll begin to understand. The maybe you can reply to yourself. What am I to do with you "Tchiowa" ? Try listening instead of desperately clinging to an out-dated philosophy that most of the rest of the world has assigned to the dust bin of history. The work of the Worlds Philosophers is a waste of time then, eh? For the most part, yes. If you want to study theory while the rest of us live in the real world, go ahead. We , ooops, you, can't benefit from their work is what you are really saying, although you may not be conscious of this. Which "work" is that? Besides, benefitting from "work" is a very Capitalistic concept. So, if it is convenient to quote the billions of Chinese and Russians who suffered, why is it not convenient to examine the untold billions who have died before them, world wide, and try and understand why? You see, all you are doing is cutting the cake of history, into thin slices, thence claim to understand the 'isms. ALL economic and political systems have made contributions to the billions of people you refer too. The world has moved on. Outdated philosophies and economic systems have been discarded. Is it worthwhile to study those and to see the mistakes? Yes. So why don't you go study all the mistakes of Socialism and the suffering it has created and then get back to us once your eyes are open. You see "Tchiowa", I attempted and failed, to draw you out from your glib political slogans and the "real world" you so fondly embrace, to a much larger canvas, which remains unfinished yet and which, if we are not careful, be finished with more blood on the canvas. No, you attempted to obfuscate. The proof of the failures of Socialism are right in front of all of us for everyone to see. So you say "Never mind the hundreds of millions of people living in poverty RIGHT NOW TODAY as a direct result of Socialism, let's look at what Igor Van Arrdvdork wrote in 1437". Why are you so afraid of the real world? If you'd like, I can quote you all kinds of things that were theorized about the luminiferous ether. For centuries. But I'd rather ignore that because the theory was proven false. Real world proof did it in. But you'd rather cite alchemists from the Middle Ages and ignore the Michelson-Morely experiments. Too "real world" for you. I think about the future. I live in the present. From what you've posted, you live in the 19th century. I have a great deal of respect for what recorded history has taught us. No you don't. You have a great deal of respect for what philosopher's from hundreds of years ago said. You don't want to look at "recorded history". Remember that "recorded history" started about the time you started reading this sentence. "Recorded history" includes the 20th and 21st centuries. And in those centuries a stake was driven in the heart of Socialism. The fact that 16th century philosophers loved it is no more important than the fact that they embraced the theory of heliocentrism. It's a beautiful world out there. A lot to learn. Go embrace some of it. |
#113
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... I did. :-) Lucky for me. Haven't spelled it since college and that was a looooong time ago. Tch, tch, Iowa .... so looooong ago and you've learned nothing. |
#114
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
laughing in Thai?? (5 - in Thai is "ha")
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... "Matt" wrote in message ... Oh go and jump idiot Well, that response tells us a lot about the intelligence level of those supporting Socialism, doesn't it? 5555555555555 |
#115
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"Freda" wrote in message ...
And the way you have been carrying on tells everyone to kill file you name or put up with the biggest load of dribble I have heard in quite a while and that really says it. Why dont you go to some more appropriate group if you want to carry on with that thread an dyou load of crap. I neither created this thread nor put it in this group. If you don't like learning about these things, you have my full permission not to read the thread. Freda -- Please reply to the list as my email address is a fake "Tchiowa" wrote in message om... "Matt" wrote in message ... Oh go and jump idiot Well, that response tells us a lot about the intelligence level of those supporting Socialism, doesn't it? 5555555555555 |
#116
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
I guess it was just Freda's way to say that you have nothing to teach, and
that the only thing you can offer us, that we really desire, is your absence. :-) Trond "Tchiowa" wrote in message om... "Freda" wrote in message ... And the way you have been carrying on tells everyone to kill file you name or put up with the biggest load of dribble I have heard in quite a while and that really says it. Why dont you go to some more appropriate group if you want to carry on with that thread an dyou load of crap. I neither created this thread nor put it in this group. If you don't like learning about these things, you have my full permission not to read the thread. Freda -- Please reply to the list as my email address is a fake "Tchiowa" wrote in message om... "Matt" wrote in message ... Oh go and jump idiot Well, that response tells us a lot about the intelligence level of those supporting Socialism, doesn't it? 5555555555555 |
#117
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"WhiteShiva" wrote in message ...
I guess it was just Freda's way to say that you have nothing to teach, and that the only thing you can offer us, that we really desire, is your absence. :-) Standard remark from someone who is afraid to learn. Too bad. You've proven yourself again. Trond |
#118
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal
"Tchiowa" wrote in message om... "WhiteShiva" wrote in message ... I guess it was just Freda's way to say that you have nothing to teach, and that the only thing you can offer us, that we really desire, is your absence. :-) Standard remark from someone who is afraid to learn. Too bad. You've proven yourself again. Thank you for proving my (and Freda's) point! |
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How US helped Iraq build deadly arsenal | devil | Asia | 0 | December 31st, 2003 10:22 PM |