French fast food caters to Muslims

Martin wrote:

The ban on traditional dress is a type of discrimination. If the aim
is really better integration, then it is misguided.

The only prosecution I have seen reported is that of a Sikh who refused
to remove his turban. Apparently it's OK to wear a turban when you're
fighting in the French army, but not in a classroom.

As you say, it does seem misguided, but then it's not easy to see what
is the best way to integrate people who are dead set on not
integrating.

G;

Martin writes:

Leave them alone and don't make the next generation hate their country
of birth? It always worked in the past.

Actually, no, it has not.

The next generation never hates its country of birth by default.
Allowed to follow natural tendencies, young people always tend to join
the mainstream--that is, they integrate. The only time they do not do
so is if their elders force a different, foreign culture upon them, in
order to _prevent_ them from integrating.

It has nothing to do with what the society does, and everything to do
with what parents do.

Some immigrants (notably immigrants from the Far East, in my
experience) tend to encourage their offspring to learn the national
language of their new home, and may even forbid them to speak the
language of the "old country." With this and other policies, they
insure that new generations are almost completely integrated within a
single generation. But some other immigrants (notably immigrants from
Arab societies, in France) do just the opposite, forbidding their
offspring from joining the mainstream, and forcing the ways of the old
country upon them. These children grow up outcast, unintegrated, and
bitter, and cause problems and unhappiness for themselves and society.

When fifteen-year-old girls are killed in France for "wanting to be
French," it's not the state or society that does the killing ... it's
their own families.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

Just let people wear what the hell they want to and not make a fuss
about it.

Such as Gestapo uniforms? What if they don't want to wear anything at
all, and wish to come to school nude? What if they want to wear
spacesuits?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:
Martin writes:

Leave them alone and don't make the next generation hate their country
of birth? It always worked in the past.

Actually, no, it has not.

The next generation never hates its country of birth by default.
Allowed to follow natural tendencies, young people always tend to join
the mainstream--that is, they integrate. The only time they do not do
so is if their elders force a different, foreign culture upon them, in
order to _prevent_ them from integrating.

It has nothing to do with what the society does, and everything to do
with what parents do.

Some immigrants (notably immigrants from the Far East, in my
experience) tend to encourage their offspring to learn the national
language of their new home, and may even forbid them to speak the
language of the "old country." With this and other policies, they
insure that new generations are almost completely integrated within a
single generation. But some other immigrants (notably immigrants from
Arab societies, in France) do just the opposite, forbidding their
offspring from joining the mainstream, and forcing the ways of the old
country upon them. These children grow up outcast, unintegrated, and
bitter, and cause problems and unhappiness for themselves and society.

When fifteen-year-old girls are killed in France for "wanting to be
French," it's not the state or society that does the killing ... it's
their own families.

Mixi in "talking sense" shock.

Many moons ago, in a far-off country, I taught English to immigrants to
the US from Latin America (you know - the ones everyone calls Mexican,
but in fact came from Guatemala when Uncle Sam destroyed their
country). A lot of these people were distressed because their children
had learned English and REFUSED to speak Spanish, so their parents
couldn't communicate with them.

G;

Which is understandable, since Muslims are economically and politically
marginalized in France, and many of them feel alienated from the
mainstream of French society.

This is just as much the fault of Muslims in France as anyone else. If
they don't integrate over time, they can expect to be marginalised.

There is a lot of discrimination against people of Arab and African
descent in France. A small number purposely exclude themselves from
French society, but the vast majority do not.

I stayed in a hostel in Barbes and found the neighborhood vibrant and
interesting...marlboromarlboromarlboro... A short walk to
Montmartre/Sacre Cour through the Pigale
too...comeseemyshowmistercomeseemyshowmister...

Perhaps Earl is on too short a chain...g

Tim K

"Iceman" wrote in message
ups.com...
"But, right, these are not the areas a foreign tourist would be
interested in visiting!"

I went to Chateau Rouge and Barbes, and found both to be interesting
experiences.

"Iceman" skrev i meddelandet
oups.com...
"And there are certainly non-observant Jews who eat pork. Plenty."

True. There are many non-observant Muslims who drink alcohol.
----------
True, as alcohol isn't banned in Islam.
What's written in the Koran is that : wine is a gift from Allah to be used
with sense

Iceman writes:

There is a lot of discrimination against people of Arab and African
descent in France. A small number purposely exclude themselves from
French society, but the vast majority do not.

The ones who are the most integrated also experience the least amount
of discrimination. A Muslim woman who shows up for an interview
dressed from head to toe in black with her eyes concealed and refuses
to speak to a male interviewer except through the intermediary of her
brother is far less likely to get a job than a Muslim woman who looks
and behaves like any other French woman.

Employers tend to assume that anyone devout enough to wear special
clothing linked to their religion is fanatical enough to cause
friction in the workplace, and they are usually right.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

....to a job interview, church, sporting events or your friends
wedding...?...g

'Clothing makes the man'

http://www.funnyjunk.com/p/upyours-jpg.html


Tim K

"Martin" wrote in message
...


What if they want to wear shorts and hiking boots and brown paper bags
over their heads? What the **** does it matter what people wear?
--
Martin

So it appears we have either a photo of 'Young William' or 'Young
Martin'...g

Tim K

"Martin" wrote in message
...

"Manners maketh the man" William Wycombe.



http://www.funnyjunk.com/p/upyours-jpg.html