The Nullarbor

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:11:42 +0800, wrote in
:

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:34:57 GMT, kangaroo16
wrote:

SNIP0ES Huge snips.....

Further to our previous discussions regarding the location and size of
the Nullarbor......

The plot thickens !!

Here are the transcripts of the e-mails I sent to and received from
the Australian national Museum, and their information from their
geosciences staff, regarding the information you posted
previously.....

I am Astounded !!

Well, I can't claim to be "astounded" as have seen a lot of
misinformation on "Usenet".

Nevertheless, I find the issue quite interesting. Did they tell
you how long it would take for them to correct their page?

I, like others, don't like to be misled by what most would
consider a "reliable source".

As mentioned in another post to some group, though, what really
does astound me, personally, is the extent of mis-spelling fairly
common English words, even by Ph.D.'s

Don't they proofread their posts to Usenet, and immediately
correct them?

Don't they, or their office staff know how to use a spell
checking program?

Even I do! Most of the time, anyway!

Since most of my posts are to US groups, I use an "American
Dialect" spell checker.

Still, when checking, I will often instruct it to ignore a
spelling "error" such as the use of "humour" for the American
"humor".

Simply as a subtle reminder that Australian spelling is often
different to American spelling.

Which, as most readers of Usenet know, can be a lot different.
I confess that I still can't get used to the U.S. spelling of
"nite" for "night". :-) [as a simple example!]

Now, of course, some apparent spelling errors could be the result
of the random flipping of an "bit" of ASCII code from a "1" to a
"0" or vice versa.

Other errors, though, seem to result from simple ignorance, even
among Ph.D.s of the different spelling of "whiskey" and
"whisky", although this has already been explained to me by a
kind reader on one of the groups.

Still, it is an annoyance to have to use alternative spellings
when searching for information.

Factual errors, though, are admittedly much more important! Such
as the mileage [or kilometerage] data between "Ceduna" and
"Norseman".

One usually doesn't bother to check more than a tiny fraction of
available information on "Usenet". At least I don't.

In the case of my post, I made the mistake of simply assuming
that an "Australian Museum" reference would be "reliable" and
"accurate".

It seems that I was wrong!

Sincere thanks for your correction, as I don't like to quote
apparently " unreliable" sources.

I accept that it is "wrong", but am very curious how long it will
take them to "correct" it!

Am sure that you are curious as well!

"Usenet" is an amazing resource, but I don't think that any of us
should "take anything for granted".

I have a variety of "maps" and "atlases", but in this case, I
didn't bother to check them. Thanks again for drawing the error
to my attention!

Perhaps most people on groups couldn't be bothered, for one
reason or another.

I think we should both follow this particular mistake up, though.

Do you think it would help if I posted to the museum and asked
them to clarify the issue? Or perhaps if I even composed and
posted a "registered" or "security post" letter?

I wonder how long it will take them to "correct" their site. This
could be interesting, you know. :-)

To people such as ourselves, anyway!

Incidentally, this group and the associated immigration group
seem very slow groups to me.

Do they strike you as such?

The daily posts on either can be read in a few minutes, or, in
some cases, even seconds.

This seems pretty odd to me, personally. Were I in the position
of even visiting Australia as a tourist, let alone migrating
here, [which I have], I could think of lots of questions to ask.

Pages and pages of questions, hundreds or thousands of words.

No doubt members of both groups are happy that the resource we
all enjoy wasn't available to me when I came here in the sixties.

I don't regret it, of course. Australia is a "beaut" country.

Have lived most of my life here, will probably die here.

The closest country I've ever seen that offers "Paradise on
Earth", and unlike many "Yanks" I have seen a few.

Please keep us informed as to the results of your contacts with
the "Australian Museum" and other authorities.

Sincerely,
"kangaroo16"











--------- Original message --------

Tony ned said on :

Hi,

Just reading one of the newsgroups, and the subject of the Nullarbor
plain was mentioned.

The person posting quoted your page on the Nullarbor plain, and the
figure of 2000km being the length of the plain.

This is all news to me as from Norseman in WA to Ceduna in SA is only
around 1200km.

Perhaps someone could clarify then, where the supposed start and end
of the actual Nullarbor Plain are.

Sent by the AM Public Enquiry System from Australian Museum Enquiries
on Wednesday October 10, 2007 at 09:01 AEST




Which attracted this reply....

On 10 Oct 2007 at 9:02, Australian Museum Enquiries wrote:

Dear Tony,

Thankyou for your enquiry. I checked with our Geosciences' staff and
got this response:

"Hi Ondine,
some investigation revealed my original figure of 2000 km came from
the Wilderness Society web page. I must now assume that this figure was
in error, although it is still on their web site. The more correct
figure should be close to 1200 km (Norseman to Ceduna), although I have
also seen a range of figures and a range of boundary places."
Ross Pogson, Geosciences.

Thankyou for letting us know - we will correct the text as soon as we
can!

Regards

Ondine Evans
Web



My last reply to them this evening by return to Ondine Evans....

OH Dear dear dear !!!

A scientist whom supposedly knows about the Earths physical formation
giving you, the Australian National Museum information that is
patently incorrect I find very disturbing.

Enough said.

Tony

My source is TravelMate and it has the distance from Eucla to Ceduna
at 605.50 km. But from Norseman to Ceduna is 825.76 km. However,
From Norseman to Port Augusta is 1,676.21 km. So it depends on from
where and to where you are measuring.

I will bring that all-time American thirst quencher, Gatorade,
to preven dehydration. LoL

Dick

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:30:29 +0000 (UTC),
(Dick Adams) wrote:

My source is TravelMate and it has the distance from Eucla to Ceduna
at 605.50 km. But from Norseman to Ceduna is 825.76 km. However,
From Norseman to Port Augusta is 1,676.21 km. So it depends on from
where and to where you are measuring.

I will bring that all-time American thirst quencher, Gatorade,
to preven dehydration. LoL

Dick

That stuff's got more sugar in it than coca-cola mate; 14gm
in 240ml or 8oz. Maybe OK if you're running a marathon and
need the energy boost, but not for long-term use. Better off
with water.


Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/
latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest

"kangaroo16" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:19:48 +0000 (UTC), (Dick
Adams) wrote in :

Where does the Nullarbor begin and where does it end?

No definite points, opinion differs. IMHO, when driving from
east to west, would say that Ceduna was the last eastern outpost.

Wasn't paved when I last drove it. Reasonably flat and level. Can
see car and truck headlights from miles away. Little traffic,
especially at dusk, night, and dawn.

At least in those days.... When you see the first signs of
civilization, after several hours, you will probably stop, at
least to refuel, and get a meal.

National Highway 1 now paved all the way around Australia, the
last stretch in 1988.

AFAIK NH1 isn't paved all the way around. Are you assuming that it's path in
Qld is from Townsville across though Mt Isa, Camooweal and on to Three Ways
and up to Darwin?

Unless there's been some recent changes my understanding is that from
Townsville it goes up to Cairns and then across through Normanton and then
is dirt from there through Doomadgee, Hells Gate Roadhouse on the Qld/NT
border and on to Borroloola where it's sealed on the Carpentaria Hwy to the
Stuart Highway. Converting the remaining section to bitumen will probably
happen about the same time as it snows here in Darwin.

http://ozroads.com.au/NationalSystem/highway1.htm

PhilD

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:30:29 +0000 (UTC), (Dick
Adams) wrote:

My source is TravelMate and it has the distance from Eucla to Ceduna
at 605.50 km. But from Norseman to Ceduna is 825.76 km. However,
From Norseman to Port Augusta is 1,676.21 km. So it depends on from
where and to where you are measuring.

Now that is strange....

Just went to Travelmate.com.au and they give the distance from
Norseman WA to Ceduna SA as 1201.63 klms.

Maps.Google.com.au gives 1201 klms

Whereis.com.au gives 1203.95

The slight discrepancies are due to the actual street starting and
finishing points at Norseman and Ceduna

I wonder how you managed to get Norseman to Ceduna as 825.76 klms ??


I will bring that all-time American thirst quencher, Gatorade,
to preven dehydration. LoL

Dick

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:34:05 +1000, Alan S
wrote in :

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:30:29 +0000 (UTC),
(Dick Adams) wrote:

My source is TravelMate and it has the distance from Eucla to Ceduna
at 605.50 km. But from Norseman to Ceduna is 825.76 km. However,
From Norseman to Port Augusta is 1,676.21 km. So it depends on from
where and to where you are measuring.

I will bring that all-time American thirst quencher, Gatorade,
to preven dehydration. LoL

Dick

That stuff's got more sugar in it than coca-cola mate; 14gm
in 240ml or 8oz. Maybe OK if you're running a marathon and
need the energy boost, but not for long-term use. Better off
with water.

Will have to contest that one with you, Alan :-) It is possible
to get salt depletion heat exhaustion as well as water depletion
heat exhaustion. Confusingly, the symptom of thirst is the same.
Its just that no matter how much water you finally drink,
the thirst is unquenchable.

I've only had it once that I remember, and that was decades
ago when was a teenager in the western U.S. I had been on
horseback all day mustering stock, with no water, and when
finally tried to quench my thirst I couldn't...until I finally
realised I was lacking salt. If one sweats a lot, as I do, one
can become salt-depleted.

When get it, the body is not only short of common table salt,
(sodium chloride, NaCl) but of other essential salts . The story
of Gatorade may interest you and other readers. See:

Gatorade: The Idea that Launched an Industry
http://www.rgp.ufl.edu/publications/.../gatorade.html

"Gatorade supplies 127 mg/l of potassium and 464 mg/l of
sodium, and 59 g/l of carbohydrates (in the form of sugars). The
current (2006) Gatorade panel claims that Gatorade rehydrates
athletes better than water because the flavor makes it easier to
drink. Glucose-fructose syrup is also known as high fructose corn
syrup."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatorade#Composition

So the sugars are in there for a reason.

It is possible to get slightly dehydrated without realising
it if your water source is warm or otherwise unpalatable.

The human body is mostly water, and if don't have enough
mental functioning can be seriously affected. Searchers for
people lost in a desert region have tracked survivors and
noted that they had blundered across paved highways without
apparently noticing them.

It is generally safer to stay with your vehicle if broken down.
A vehicle is much easier to spot from the air than humans. A
painted "S.O.S" on a fabric backed fluorescent plastic is worth
carrying. If really out in the bush, a RFDS [Royal Flying Doctor
Service H.F.radio or a satellite phone is an even better idea.

Contrary to what many people think, the letters don't stand for
anything. They were originally chosen as a distress signal
as they were quick and easy to send by international Morse
code. . . . - - - . . .

The radio equivalent is "MAYDAY", and it legally takes priority
over all other traffic. A couple of other words are used
for lesser priorities.
------------
MAYDAY (Distress)

Indicates that a ship, aircraft or other vehicle is threatened by
grave and imminent danger and requests immediate assistance.

PAN-PAN (Urgency)

Indicates that the calling station has a very urgent message to
transmit concerning the safety of a ship, aircraft or other
vehicle, or of a person.

SÉCURITÉ (Safety)

Indicates that the station is about to transmit a message
concerning the safety of navigation or giving important
meteorological warnings.

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-ml...ABF1A5D7392DA6

or
http://tinyurl.com/37u2hm

Some readers may think such gear is unnecessary. Oh well, they
presumably know what their life is worth....

Without air, survival time is measured in minutes. Water is the
next priority.

One book I highly recommend is:

Stay Alive: a Handbook on Survival : (Waterproof Edition)
Dunlevy, Maurice ; Illustrated by Webbe, Raymond
Paperback
3rd ed
256 pages
Illustrations (Some Colour)
Published: June 1993
Publisher: AGPS Press
ISBN: 0642058180
http://www.netstore.com.au/books/06420/0642058180.shtml

To quote a bit from my copy, Desert water table on page
24, if "hot" 37 degrees or above [37 degrees roughly = normal
body temperature] resting in the shade at all times survival time
is roughly 2 to 5½ days. Traveling at night, resting in shade
by day, 1 to 3 days.

With 10 litres of water per person, resting in shade at all
times, 3½ days to 11½ days. Traveling at night, resting in shade
by day, 3½ days to 6½ days.

Only giving worst case figures from the list. The table provides
for varying amounts of water, various temperature ranges.

Probably needless to say, no figures are given for having
no water, laying in the sun, or walking during the day. Nor does
the table give any corrections for age, fitness, etc.

Rather than carrying survival books, maps, etc. some
advocate a laptop computer and several C.D.s with info.

If want a downloadable and quotable guide, can download
a P.D.F. copy of W.A. Police Academy guide
"Aids to Survival". at
http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Portals/...rival_2007.pdf

For medical considerations, see Heat Illness section and links
from Merck Manual Professional edition. A bit technical, but a
good rundown. Perhaps a bit technical for some.

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/print/sec21/ch318/ch318a.html

I highly recommend a Fisher Space blanket for travel. Not the
"rescue blank" but the heavy duty version, shiny on one side,
reinforced layer, colored on other, grommetted edge.

I carried mine everywhere when traveling in S.E. Asia. Shiny
side in, is waterproof and will keep you as warm as a couple of
wool blankets. Shiny side out, a good sunshade, and can even be
rigged as a radar reflector. The main reason I carried it
everywhere though, was to keep 35mm camera and film cool.

If want a ballpoint pen that will always work, even underwater, I
also recommend their "space pen", originally designed for
N.A.S.A.

Both products are in that increasingly rare category of items
that always work as claimed, and I wouldn't be without either.

Cheers,
Kangaroo16

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:04:14 GMT, kangaroo16
wrote:

Will have to contest that one with you, Alan :-) It is possible
to get salt depletion heat exhaustion as well as water depletion
heat exhaustion.

Then use a diet version or drink water and take salt
tablets. There are better electrolyte drinks than Gatorade
without the sugar.


Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
http://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/
latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:10:54 GMT, "Phil"
wrote in
:


"kangaroo16" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:19:48 +0000 (UTC), (Dick
Adams) wrote in :

Where does the Nullarbor begin and where does it end?

No definite points, opinion differs. IMHO, when driving from
east to west, would say that Ceduna was the last eastern outpost.

Wasn't paved when I last drove it. Reasonably flat and level. Can
see car and truck headlights from miles away. Little traffic,
especially at dusk, night, and dawn.

At least in those days.... When you see the first signs of
civilization, after several hours, you will probably stop, at
least to refuel, and get a meal.

National Highway 1 now paved all the way around Australia, the
last stretch in 1988.

AFAIK NH1 isn't paved all the way around. Are you assuming that it's path in
Qld is from Townsville across though Mt Isa, Camooweal and on to Three Ways
and up to Darwin?

Don't have a current map, so really won't buy in on this one. I
thought that during the 1988 bicentennial it would soon be paved
all the way, but not sure of exact route, and it could have
changed since then anyway.

Posted according to following reference:

--------------------------------
From the inception of the former National Highway System to our
Bicentenary in 1988, more than
$5,100 million had been spent on national highway projects in
Australia. For the first time, the
capital cities and major towns were linked by a dedicated network
of sealed highways.
Achievements had included almost 4,000 km of new road
construction; extensions of four-lane
carriageways to 1,156 km; and the construction of town bypasses
and new alignments.
On 16 December 1989, the last section of the national highway,
between Port Hedland and Halls Creek, was sealed.

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:...nt=fir efox-a

Or, much more simply,
http://tinyurl.com/27sxwc

Unless there's been some recent changes my understanding is that from
Townsville it goes up to Cairns and then across through Normanton and then
is dirt from there through Doomadgee, Hells Gate Roadhouse on the Qld/NT
border and on to Borroloola where it's sealed on the Carpentaria Hwy to the
Stuart Highway. Converting the remaining section to bitumen will probably
happen about the same time as it snows here in Darwin.

If that is the case, then don't hold your breath. Unless the
scientists are wrong about the global warming trend, which of
course, is possible. :-)

After all, from memory the last ice age covered most of Europe
in ice, and the present site of Chicago was under around a mile
of ice.

Still, all the water to produce it must have come from somewhere,
so possibly there was more evaporation in other parts of the
world.

As to Darwin, once lived and worked there. Although my room had
an overhead fan, the only way I could manage to get some sleep
was to take a cold water shower, or the nearest the Darwin mains
can supply to cold water, return to room dripping wet, try to get
to sleep before the water evaporated.

According to one source Australia still holds the beer drinking
record, but suspect this info may be obsolete:

"... Perhaps it is the Australian climate which creates
the Australian thirst. At any rate, Australians have something of
a reputation for liking to down a beer or two. Two of the more
unusual alcoholic world records are held by Australia, according
to Mr. Guinness. One is that Darwin has the highest per capita
consumption of beer in the world, with peak consumption estimated
at 236 litres (52 gallons) per person per annum. Whilst in
Darwin, try asking for a Darwin Stubby, a size of bottle suited
to those with big thirsts.
The second record is that the Men’s Working Club in Mildura,
Victoria claims the longest permanent bar with beer pumps in the
world. It is 90.8 metres (298 feet) long, with 27 pumps."

http://www.australiaeguide.com.au/practical_info.php

From memory, though it seemed pretty reasonable at the time,
although only 52 gallons per person per year seems a bit light
even when one considers that the Australian and British gallons
are larger than the American gallon.

Roughly speaking, five gallons US ~= four gallons Australian, so
this would bring the figure up a bit. Then too,
_per capitia_ is Latin for "per head", meaning that it would
include all Darwin residents, not only men. Would include
not only the male population of drinking age but also women,
children, even new born infants.

I don't remember the population of men of legal drinking age in
Darwin when I was there decades ago. If want an exact equivalent
to 52 gallons per year, presuming that the Guiness Book of World
Records was using British and Australian measurement, this would
be:
52 gallon [UK] = 62.449 396 126 gallon [US, liquid]
52 gallon [UK] = 236.396 68 liters

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

Or to go to even more obscure units of measure an approximation:

1 hogshead (of beer) = 3 kilderkin = 6 firkin = 54 gal =
245.488 86 L

http://www.onlineconversion.com/article_UK_units.htm

For info on US system of non metric measurements, see

http://www.onlineconversion.com/article_US_units.htm

Cheers,
Kangaroo16