Tasers NEVER killed Anyone

I think not. They didn't spend any time accessing the situation nor did they
grapple arrest him. CPR was not applied. John Les has called for a public
inquiry which sounds great but if you recall the Bingogate public inquiry
never finished thus never released a report. This could be a PR exercise. In
the Province today one of the columnists reported that his fellow cabinet
ministers are rumoured to be very unhappy with how the Solicitor-General has
handled things. One columnist is reporting that police are afraid for their
safety and that cruisers have been pelted with eggs because ppl are angry
over this incident. I haven't seen any news reports of that. Has anyone
else? Also Les has decided to review the idea of getting a United Metro
Police Force to replace all the local and RCMP ones. He was against the idea
two weeks ago.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...0-36a707412af2

Aftermath of Dziekanski tragedy has touched raw nerve in public

Alan Ferguson
The Province


Tuesday, November 20, 2007


It's a long time since I've known so many people so genuinely angry as they
are over the death of Robert Dziekanski.

I'm talking about people who aren't normally in the habit of whipping
themselves into a fever pitch over a perceived injustice.

This goes deeper. It touches a raw nerve in the collective consciousness.
And it has left many folks wondering about the people they appoint to act on
their behalf.

The feeling goes beyond mere emotion.

Sure, plenty of tears have been shed. Understandably so.

The Polish immigrant's very public death at Vancouver airport can't be
watched without gut-wrenching pain.

And even though Paul Pritchard's amateur video is only part of the story, it
hasn't stopped some people from deciding who are the villains.

What we're hearing about now -- police cruisers pelted with eggs, officers
afraid for their safety -- does us no credit. But the rare, deep-seated
anger is aimed, not at particular individuals, but at a sequence of events
ordinary people find incomprehensible.

They're not interested in a witchhunt based on hysterical assumptions about
trigger-happy cops. They'll wait for the facts, provided they are not too
long coming.

But what they do want is to be told that the fatal flaws in the "system"
that failed Dziekanski are being dealt with in an immediate, meaningful way.
And, quite frankly, they're seeing precious little evidence of that.

As the weeks roll by, what they're mostly witnessing is a mind-boggling lack
of initiative.

It's worse. People in positions of power scurry into hiding, seeking either
to divert attention from themselves, or else to clam up, further feeding
public unease.

Police pile one investigation on top of another, as if adding manpower alone
will confirm their good intentions. Someone should tell them no one is
fooled any more by the charade of police investigating police.

But the real problem -- what's at the root of the growing anguish in the
community -- is the absence of authoritative leadership.

A prime example is Stockwell Day, federal minister of public safety. Hasn't
it dawned on him that the Dziekanski affair is a humiliating embarrassment
for Canada? Yet all he's done is waffle on about Tasers.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion hadn't even bothered to watch the video the
rest of the world is talking about.

Hundreds of people were involved in this tragedy in one way or another --
RCMP, customs agents, immigration officials, security guards and others.

They should be made to stand up and be counted. Instead, we're watching them
duck for cover.

It's the continuing official indifference to the damaging global
consequences of those fatal hours at Vancouver airport that Canadians
everywhere find so profoundly disturbing.

And it's why they're angry at the shuffling hesitancy to explain them.



© The Vancouver Province 2007

--
Read and obey the Bible. Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, He rose
again and walked the earth. We are awaiting the Third Coming aka The Day Of
Judgment.

Sheep are extremely fluffy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NEbU_YkZw#gAhmzK_HQgc

"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
"J.Robertson" wrote:

We all agree, it wasn't the Taser that killed him.

It was the idiot police officers that didn't follow their training and
RCMP
protocol in dealing with suspects. It was tasing him twice, and 3
officers
kneeling on his back and neck, not letting him breathe.


Those officers acted exactly as they are trained to.

There was a story in a newspaper today that their was a Polish speaking
employee at the airport that day but they weren't aware of the situation.
While he had a stapler he wasn't close enough to strike him with it. They
should have waited a minute or two or until he attacked them.

--
Read and obey the Bible. Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, He rose
again and walked the earth. We are awaiting the Third Coming aka The Day Of
Judgment.

Sheep are extremely fluffy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NEbU_YkZw#gAhmzK_HQgc

"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
"J.Robertson" wrote:

Even the official training material the RCMP trotted out in defense of
their
officers, is inconsistent (by a BIG margin) with what the 4 officers did.

According to a CBS report, the RCMP manual says that An RCMP training
document on the use of force, obtained by CBC News, says "a person must
have the ability, intent and means to injure or kill someone before force
is used to restrain them.Dziekanski was reportedly wielding an office
stapler two metres from the nearest police officer when the Taser was
used."


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...g.html?ref=rss

The guy was pretty big, obviously very strong, and apparently violent. as
seen from the way he threw a chair at a plate glass window and trashed a
computer.


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...g.html?ref=rss



They didn't assess the situation, they ignored witnesses, they did not
first
try to calm him, didn't properly warn him, etc etc etc etc etc.

What would they gather from talking to witnesses? People were telling them
that the guy spoke Russian. He didn't speak Russian. He spoke Polish.
Did
they need to talk to witnesses to see that he was throwing furniture
around
and had trashed a computer? That was probably obvious to them. They had
probably already been alerted to his violent behaviour by whoever it was
who called them and gave them enough detail that they send not one officer
but four. I sincerely doubt that they needed to spend time talking to
witnesses when the man was damaging property, especially when the
witnesses
were offering misinformation, like telling them that he spoke only
Russian.


Cops from outside Canada (not subject to peer discipline here,
therefore -
free to speak the truth not the official party line) say the officers
didn't
follow procedure.
Lawyers in Canada, familiar with RCMP training and confrontation
protocol,
say the officers didn't follow procedure.


Yes indeed.... like the quoted material above that betrays its own
inaccuracy?

"Greg Carr" wrote in message
news:zhS0j.19988$fD.19941@pd7urf3no...
I think not. They didn't spend any time accessing the situation nor did
they grapple arrest him. CPR was not applied. John Les has called for a
public inquiry which sounds great but if you recall the Bingogate public
inquiry never finished thus never released a report. This could be a PR
exercise. In the Province today one of the columnists reported that his
fellow cabinet ministers are rumoured to be very unhappy with how the
Solicitor-General has handled things. One columnist is reporting that
police are afraid for their safety and that cruisers have been pelted with
eggs because ppl are angry over this incident. I haven't seen any news
reports of that. Has anyone else? Also Les has decided to review the idea
of getting a United Metro Police Force to replace all the local and RCMP
ones. He was against the idea two weeks ago.





Today on the Bill Good program he talked about the public's reaction.
Basically he said that on any issue he's seen in the past, the public
opinion and calls to him are divided 50/50.

On this issue, however, he says almost EVERYONE is very critical of the
Police and feels the attack on Robert was unjustified, the only people
supporting the Police actions are Police officers, or family members of an
officer.

Today, Firefighters at YVR are mad they weren't called to perform CPR, as he
could have been saved.
http://cknw.com/news/news_local.cfm?...news_local.cfm

I'm disgusted that the Police didn't try CPR or ANYTHING else. They just
stood there as he lay unconscious and died. They could have saved him.

Greg Carr wrote:

There was a story in a newspaper today that their was a Polish speaking
employee at the airport that day but they weren't aware of the situation.
While he had a stapler he wasn't close enough to strike him with it. They
should have waited a minute or two or until he attacked them.

Of course not.... those helpful witnesses said that the man spoke only
Russian.

On Nov 22, 9:03 am, Dave Smith wrote:
Greg Carr wrote:

There was a story in a newspaper today that their was a Polish speaking
employee at the airport that day but they weren't aware of the situation.
While he had a stapler he wasn't close enough to strike him with it. They
should have waited a minute or two or until he attacked them.

Of course not.... those helpful witnesses said that the man spoke only
Russian.

Better do some research before you answer. The airport employee spoke
both Polish and Russian.

http://www.discovervancouver.com/for...OPIC_ID=219130

The helpful witnesses can be excused because they are ordinary civilians.
How hard would it be for a officer to hold up a cell phone and get someone
at 911 or Mosaic to identify the language. As well why wasn't the
translation services phone working (which a female witness tried to use) or
the translation services desk staffed.

--
Read and obey the Bible. Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, He rose
again and walked the earth. We are awaiting the Third Coming aka The Day Of
Judgment.

Sheep are extremely fluffy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NEbU_YkZw#gAhmzK_HQgc

"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
Greg Carr wrote:

There was a story in a newspaper today that their was a Polish speaking
employee at the airport that day but they weren't aware of the situation.
While he had a stapler he wasn't close enough to strike him with it. They
should have waited a minute or two or until he attacked them.

Of course not.... those helpful witnesses said that the man spoke only
Russian.

Huh?? Where did you get the idea that immigrants need to know an official
language? The Lower Mainland has thousands of ppl who don't speak either
official language haven't you noticed?

--
Read and obey the Bible. Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, He rose
again and walked the earth. We are awaiting the Third Coming aka The Day Of
Judgment.

Sheep are extremely fluffy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NEbU_YkZw#gAhmzK_HQgc

"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
"TheNewsGuy(Mike)" wrote:

It was the idiot police officers that didn't follow their training and
RCMP
protocol in dealing with suspects. It was tasing him twice, and 3
officers
kneeling on his back and neck, not letting him breathe.


Those officers acted exactly as they are trained to.

Then they better change the training!


Perhaps, but it works well most of the time. Maybe the thing that needs
to
be changed is the way people respond to the police. Then there is the
issue
of language, because I was under the impression that immigrants are
supposed to understand at least one of our two official languages, and
this
guy couldn't understand enough to get out of the airport.

A cpl of ppl I met were telling me they had let ppl taser them on a limb to
see what happened. A biker I met once told me about getting tasered in the
chest and he basically laughed at them. He was on meth though.

--
Read and obey the Bible. Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, He rose
again and walked the earth. We are awaiting the Third Coming aka The Day Of
Judgment.

Sheep are extremely fluffy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NEbU_YkZw#gAhmzK_HQgc

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Taser Lover" wrote in message
news:nPn0j.11831$cD.3226@pd7urf2no...
Sorry people. It is illogical to believe in something without evidence.
It's true Richard Nixon and OJ Simpson did nothing wrong. The lack of
evidence proves this as does the fact the Tasers never killed any one.

Dziekanski's death not caused by Taser, says device maker

Taser International Inc. lashes out a media in statement released late
Friday, sends 60 legal letters demanding corrections to 'false and
misleading headlines'

Globe and Mail Update

The following statement, released late Friday, is attributed to Tom
Smith, founder and chairman of Arizona-based TASER International Inc.,
in response to the death of Robert Dziekanski at the Vancouver airport:

An amateur video of the incident that was released earlier this week has
received sensational coverage from the media with many reports drawing
an unsubstantiated and uninformed conclusion as to the cause of Mr.
Dziekanski's death.

This tragic incident appears to follow the pattern of many in-custody
deaths or deaths following a confrontation with police. Historically
medical science and forensic analysis has shown that these deaths are
attributable to other factors and not the low-energy electrical
discharge of the TASER. Specifically in Canada, while previous incidents
were widely reported in the media as 'TASER deaths,' the role of the
TASER device has been cleared in every case to date - including the
widely publicized Bagnell in-custody death in Vancouver where the TASER
device was cleared by an inquest jury.

Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate. The video of
the incident at the Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was
continuing to fight well after the TASER application. This continuing
struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the
TASER device electrical current causing cardiac arrest. His continuing
struggle is proof that the TASER device was not the cause of his death.
Further, the video clearly shows symptoms of excited delirium, a
potentially fatal condition marked by symptoms of exhaustion and mania
such as heavy breathing, profuse sweating, confusion, disorientation and
violence toward inanimate objects.

We are taken aback by the number of media outlets that have
irresponsibly published conclusive headlines blaming the TASER device
and/or the law enforcement officers involved as the cause of death
before completion of the investigation. These sensationalistic media
reports completely ignore the earmark symptoms of excited delirium shown
in the video. TASER International is transmitting over 60 legal demand
letters requiring correction of these false and misleading headlines and
will take other actions as appropriate. These unsubstantiated, false
headlines mislead the public and could adversely influence public policy
in ways which could place the lives of both law enforcement and the
public at greater risk.


I beg to differ as does the coroner
.http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...0730taser30.ht
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...30taser30.html

Getting tasered must be good for you, have someone shock you several
times and report back if you can.

I tried the url but nothing came up.

--
Read and obey the Bible. Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, He rose
again and walked the earth. We are awaiting the Third Coming aka The Day Of
Judgment.

Sheep are extremely fluffy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NEbU_YkZw#gAhmzK_HQgc

"Paul" wrote in message
...

"Taser Lover" wrote in message
news:nPn0j.11831$cD.3226@pd7urf2no...
Sorry people. It is illogical to believe in something without evidence.
It's true Richard Nixon and OJ Simpson did nothing wrong. The lack of
evidence proves this as does the fact the Tasers never killed any one.

Dziekanski's death not caused by Taser, says device maker

Taser International Inc. lashes out a media in statement released late
Friday, sends 60 legal letters demanding corrections to 'false and
misleading headlines'

Globe and Mail Update

The following statement, released late Friday, is attributed to Tom
Smith, founder and chairman of Arizona-based TASER International Inc.,
in response to the death of Robert Dziekanski at the Vancouver airport:

An amateur video of the incident that was released earlier this week has
received sensational coverage from the media with many reports drawing
an unsubstantiated and uninformed conclusion as to the cause of Mr.
Dziekanski's death.

This tragic incident appears to follow the pattern of many in-custody
deaths or deaths following a confrontation with police. Historically
medical science and forensic analysis has shown that these deaths are
attributable to other factors and not the low-energy electrical
discharge of the TASER. Specifically in Canada, while previous incidents
were widely reported in the media as 'TASER deaths,' the role of the
TASER device has been cleared in every case to date - including the
widely publicized Bagnell in-custody death in Vancouver where the TASER
device was cleared by an inquest jury.

Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate. The video of
the incident at the Vancouver airport indicates that the subject was
continuing to fight well after the TASER application. This continuing
struggle could not be possible if the subject died as a result of the
TASER device electrical current causing cardiac arrest. His continuing
struggle is proof that the TASER device was not the cause of his death.
Further, the video clearly shows symptoms of excited delirium, a
potentially fatal condition marked by symptoms of exhaustion and mania
such as heavy breathing, profuse sweating, confusion, disorientation and
violence toward inanimate objects.

We are taken aback by the number of media outlets that have
irresponsibly published conclusive headlines blaming the TASER device
and/or the law enforcement officers involved as the cause of death
before completion of the investigation. These sensationalistic media
reports completely ignore the earmark symptoms of excited delirium shown
in the video. TASER International is transmitting over 60 legal demand
letters requiring correction of these false and misleading headlines and
will take other actions as appropriate. These unsubstantiated, false
headlines mislead the public and could adversely influence public policy
in ways which could place the lives of both law enforcement and the
public at greater risk.


Here repeating tasering, may cause death admitted by the company
http://www.saveourcivilliberties.org.../08/1177.shtml

On Nov 22, 9:51 am, "Greg Carr" wrote:
I tried the url but nothing came up.

Try it again. It does work, and very interesting.
http://www.saveourcivilliberties.org.../08/1177.shtml