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  #31  
Old December 28th, 2003, 05:13 AM
Bill
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"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:30:35 +0100, B wrote:


Look, don't fool yourself. If New York City were to vanish tomorrow,
Connecticut and New Jersey would soon have the economy of Nebraska.


1. nonsense
2. exactly what would be wrong with that?
3. why should people outside NYC support NYC?


er, because NYC helps to support you?
Besides you don't "support" NYC. A very small part of your tax dollar
assists some functions that serve NYC. Similarly a small part of the tax
dollar of a NYC resident helps to support functions that serve you.


  #34  
Old December 28th, 2003, 03:17 PM
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:15:50 -0500, "Bill" wrote:



So your bridge toll may go in part to New York-area transit, but at the

same
time New Yorkers are paying even more money to support programs way

outside
the city.


Precisely. For example, NYC residents pay taxes that support your
roads...even if they don't own cars.


Not unless they buy gasoline or diesel.

rj
  #35  
Old December 29th, 2003, 05:06 AM
Bill
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"RJ" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:15:50 -0500, "Bill" wrote:



So your bridge toll may go in part to New York-area transit, but at the

same
time New Yorkers are paying even more money to support programs way

outside
the city.


Precisely. For example, NYC residents pay taxes that support your
roads...even if they don't own cars.


Not unless they buy gasoline or diesel.

Incorrect. A portion of general revenue taxes goes into roads as well.


  #36  
Old December 29th, 2003, 05:07 AM
Bill
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"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:07:50 -0500, "Bill" wrote:


Do you care about the economic survival of NYC? That effects an area

much
wider than NYC or even the NYC metro area.


I don't care to pay for NYC's survival

Then you obviously do not understand the interconnectedness of the nation's
and even the world's economy. If NYC goes down the tubes (which it won't)
you will be poorer.


  #37  
Old December 29th, 2003, 05:29 AM
Pan
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 23:07:43 -0500, "Bill" wrote:


"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:07:50 -0500, "Bill" wrote:


Do you care about the economic survival of NYC? That effects an area

much
wider than NYC or even the NYC metro area.


I don't care to pay for NYC's survival

Then you obviously do not understand the interconnectedness of the nation's
and even the world's economy. If NYC goes down the tubes (which it won't)
you will be poorer.


Think of your respondant as a bigot, like an unreconstructed racist or
Jew-hater or violent homophobe, whatever. Some people have such a
powerful irrational hatred of New York City that they don't understand
that this city gets way less in government spending from both the
state and federal government than we pay in taxes, but are simply
obsessed with making the city go to Hell. It's not worth talking to
this asshole, in my opinion.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.
  #38  
Old December 29th, 2003, 11:58 PM
Joe the Aroma
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(me) wrote in message . com...
(Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 03:32:57 +0000 (UTC) in
rec.travel.usa-canada, Dan Foster wrote:

Across the entire NEC, operating ratio was 1.22:1 --
that is, it cost $1.22 per $1 of revenue to run the NEC. In other words,
losing money.


and tell me which highways and airports have NO government
subsidy? they lose money all the time, and have never been
expected to break even.


Kinda depends upon how you define subsidy. Alot of airports
are major cash cows, directly I mean. It's why parking is
so expensive, and the stores in them so pricey. It's a VERY
profitable place. However, many of them are built using bonds
that were/are government backed and therefor at much more
favorable rates than some corporate/junk rate they might otherwise
have to pay. And, yes, there are many airports which are built
upon old military bases (in a few cases CURRENT bases) and as
such are using runways built with tax money. So in this sense
you can call them subsidized. But as for a continuing cash
flow, not too much. TSA maybe but air travelers are taxed
relatively heavy to support that. ATC is a charged cost and
there is even a move afoot to privatize the whole affair.
Depending upon how you want to measure it, air travel might
be one of the least subsidized forms of transportation.

The car is probably one of the most subsidized, but in
a subsidy per user sense, it might not be. But that is based
upon the building of roads, and it is often pointed out that
roads existed before cars. And considering that roads exist
economically for trucks as much as cars, it becomes difficult
to determine how much of that subsidy should be applied to
personal auto travel.


I remember seeing statistics that gas and various car taxes pay for
60% of road fees. The rest is paid for by general funds. In that sense
they are about 40% subsidized.
  #39  
Old December 30th, 2003, 12:02 AM
Joe the Aroma
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"Bill" wrote in message ...
"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:53:43 -0500, "Bill" wrote:


"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:20:28 GMT, Rita
wrote:


Especially in New York City. One can't imagine what the city would be
like without it. Imagine if everyone attempted to drive a car to work

and
then park it.

people who live 20-50-80 miles away are tolled and taxed to provide
that mass transit in NYC, I rarely go into to NYC, and you can be sure
that my region is not served by NYC transit so why should I support
their mass transit?

Because if you're within 80 miles of NYC, your local economy depends on a
healthy NYC, and that depends on mass transit.

that's a bunch of BS, our area has nothing to do with nyc's economy.
according to census data less than 12% of the population here commutes
to NYC


You obviously don't understand economics. NYC's economic region is much
wider than NYC. Without NYC, the surrounding areas would have much, much
smaller economies. How many people commute to areas outside of NYC which
depend on the NYC regional economic engine? How many people from that area
(assuming you are outside of that area) come to your area to recreate,
purchase property, frequent businesses?

I live 150 miles from NYC. However I appreciate the influence that NYC has
on the economy of my region. And I'm happy to pay a few pennies of my gas
or other taxes to help the NYC region have a functioning mass transit system
without which many more of them would want to move up here.

I read somewhere that the average salary of a Metro North commuter is
125K or so.... makes you feel good subsidizing milionares eh?
  #40  
Old December 30th, 2003, 05:11 AM
Bill
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Posts: n/a
Default AMTRAK


"Joe the Aroma" wrote in message
om...
"Bill" wrote in message

...
"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:53:43 -0500, "Bill" wrote:


"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:20:28 GMT, Rita


wrote:


Especially in New York City. One can't imagine what the city

would be
like without it. Imagine if everyone attempted to drive a car to

work
and
then park it.

people who live 20-50-80 miles away are tolled and taxed to provide
that mass transit in NYC, I rarely go into to NYC, and you can be

sure
that my region is not served by NYC transit so why should I support
their mass transit?

Because if you're within 80 miles of NYC, your local economy depends

on a
healthy NYC, and that depends on mass transit.

that's a bunch of BS, our area has nothing to do with nyc's economy.
according to census data less than 12% of the population here commutes
to NYC


You obviously don't understand economics. NYC's economic region is much
wider than NYC. Without NYC, the surrounding areas would have much,

much
smaller economies. How many people commute to areas outside of NYC

which
depend on the NYC regional economic engine? How many people from that

area
(assuming you are outside of that area) come to your area to recreate,
purchase property, frequent businesses?

I live 150 miles from NYC. However I appreciate the influence that NYC

has
on the economy of my region. And I'm happy to pay a few pennies of my

gas
or other taxes to help the NYC region have a functioning mass transit

system
without which many more of them would want to move up here.


I read somewhere that the average salary of a Metro North commuter is
125K or so.... makes you feel good subsidizing milionares eh?


There's more to NYC mass transit than Metro North. There's also the subway
system which serves people of all economic strata.

Besides, 125K in the NYC suburbs will allow you to struggle with an average
mortgage. Half that salary in upstate NY beyond the NYC suburbs will allow
you to live quite nicely.


 




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