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"Ciao" - acceptable or what?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 5th, 2005, 09:53 AM
B Vaughan
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On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:50:36 +0100, "Graeme Miller"
wrote:

Conversational Italian now...

The older language tapes suggest that "Ciao" is only for use between friends
of if you're talking to children. The more modern BBC late night programmes
sprinkle the greeting around quite liberally as if its got the same status
as "Hi" in English.


Yes, "ciao" is about as informal as "hi" in English. However, Italians
tend to be a bit more formal than most English speakers. If you're old
enough to remember, you can use the same guidelines that would have
been current in the US up until the mid 1960s. (I don't know what the
watershed years were for formality in the UK.) When I first came to
Italy I used to decide whether to use the formal or familiar verb
forms by thinking whether this person would have been addressed as
"Mr." or "Mrs." by my mother when I was a child.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
  #22  
Old July 5th, 2005, 09:53 AM
B Vaughan
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On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:52:49 GMT, "tile" wrote:

and did you have use Salve as a greeting ??


I guess salve would be used a little more south than Umbria and Lazio. ( I
guess from the latin Salvete..
from salus / salutis health )


"Salve" is widely used in Le Marche, which is north of Lazio, and
mostly north of Umbria. It is definitely derived from the Latin.

--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
  #23  
Old July 6th, 2005, 02:04 AM
Ken Blake
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In ,
B Vaughan typed:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 05:02:58 GMT, "tile"
wrote:

i have never used salve in my life..


Many other Italians use it liberally, especially when they
can't
decide whether "ciao" or "buon giorno" would be more
appropriate, or
when they want to avoid being too informal yet don't want to
feel
servile. (For instance employees to their boss.)

"Arrivederci" is likewise neutral in formality.



Barbara, how about "arrivederla"? Am I right that it's more
formal than "arrivederci" and used less frequently?


--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup


  #24  
Old July 6th, 2005, 07:27 AM
DDT Filled Mormons
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On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:04:45 -0700, "Ken Blake"
wrote:

In ,
B Vaughan typed:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 05:02:58 GMT, "tile"
wrote:

i have never used salve in my life..


Many other Italians use it liberally, especially when they
can't
decide whether "ciao" or "buon giorno" would be more
appropriate, or
when they want to avoid being too informal yet don't want to
feel
servile. (For instance employees to their boss.)

"Arrivederci" is likewise neutral in formality.



Barbara, how about "arrivederla"? Am I right that it's more
formal than "arrivederci" and used less frequently?


That's correct. It's rare to hear "arrivederla".
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
  #25  
Old July 6th, 2005, 08:18 AM
Luca Logi
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DDT Filled Mormons wrote:

Barbara, how about "arrivederla"? Am I right that it's more
formal than "arrivederci" and used less frequently?


That's correct. It's rare to hear "arrivederla".


"Arrivederla" has a somewhat Tuscan sound. Almost unheard outside
Tuscany (where, often, it is pronounced as "arrivedella" and may be made
to sound either respectful or mocking).


--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail:
Home page:
http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)
  #26  
Old July 6th, 2005, 01:26 PM
B Vaughan
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On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:04:45 -0700, "Ken Blake"
wrote:

Barbara, how about "arrivederla"? Am I right that it's more
formal than "arrivederci" and used less frequently?


ArrivederLa is more or less "Until I'll see you again", while
"arrivederci" is "until we'll see each other again". Since the first
has "you" in it, and the "you" is in the formal form, that
automatically makes it more formal. In summary, "arrivederci" is
neutral in formality, and when "arrivederLa" is used instead, the
speaker may be intentionally emphasizing the formality of the "La".
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
  #28  
Old July 6th, 2005, 03:05 PM
Bob Fusillo
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Local usage in Venice is either ciao or buon giorno upon greeting friends
and, old and young alike, ciao ciao upon parting ( sort of "hi," and "see
you.") Arrivederci has become a kind of pleasant flourish -- an assurance
that we'll meet again: a usage for when the lapse of time might be extended.
Buon giorno upon greeting is more common than ciao amongst friends: if I
meet a friend and it is the first meeting of the day and we might stop to
chat, it is usually buon giorno. After that it is ciao. At any time, tho, If
we happen pass on the street we wave a quick ciao.
rjf

"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:50:36 +0100, "Graeme Miller"
wrote:

Conversational Italian now...

The older language tapes suggest that "Ciao" is only for use between

friends
of if you're talking to children. The more modern BBC late night

programmes
sprinkle the greeting around quite liberally as if its got the same

status
as "Hi" in English.


Yes, "ciao" is about as informal as "hi" in English. However, Italians
tend to be a bit more formal than most English speakers. If you're old
enough to remember, you can use the same guidelines that would have
been current in the US up until the mid 1960s. (I don't know what the
watershed years were for formality in the UK.) When I first came to
Italy I used to decide whether to use the formal or familiar verb
forms by thinking whether this person would have been addressed as
"Mr." or "Mrs." by my mother when I was a child.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot

it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup



  #29  
Old July 6th, 2005, 04:42 PM
Ken Blake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In ,
B Vaughan typed:
On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:04:45 -0700, "Ken Blake"
wrote:

Barbara, how about "arrivederla"? Am I right that it's more
formal than "arrivederci" and used less frequently?


ArrivederLa is more or less "Until I'll see you again", while
"arrivederci" is "until we'll see each other again". Since the
first
has "you" in it, and the "you" is in the formal form, that
automatically makes it more formal. In summary, "arrivederci"
is
neutral in formality, and when "arrivederLa" is used instead,
the
speaker may be intentionally emphasizing the formality of the
"La".



Thanks, Barbara (also Luca and DFM).

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup


  #30  
Old July 6th, 2005, 05:10 PM
B Vaughan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 6 Jul 2005 10:05:41 -0400, "Bob Fusillo"
wrote:

Local usage in Venice is either ciao or buon giorno upon greeting friends
and, old and young alike, ciao ciao upon parting ( sort of "hi," and "see
you.") Arrivederci has become a kind of pleasant flourish -- an assurance
that we'll meet again: a usage for when the lapse of time might be extended.
Buon giorno upon greeting is more common than ciao amongst friends: if I
meet a friend and it is the first meeting of the day and we might stop to
chat, it is usually buon giorno. After that it is ciao. At any time, tho, If
we happen pass on the street we wave a quick ciao.


I might add that (at least in Le Marche), you generally don't say
"ciao" on meeting a group of people. In that case, "buon giorno/sera"
is called for. "Ciao" is more a one-on-one greeting. On parting the
same rule doesn't seem to apply.




--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
 




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