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#21
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Are Cruise deals over?
Mason Barge wrote in
: I guess the big TA's who can put together groups will get an even bigger piece of the pie. Am I correct, Peter, that a TA can put together a group and then sell cabins retail? Mason Barge "If this is coffee, please bring me some tea. If this is tea, please bring me some coffee." -- Abraham Lincoln One can make a group call it Peter's Huge good Deal Group and then sell it at the group price, however, the cruise lines reserve the right to restrict the marketing of group rates. In the past this has not been a problem, they might want to be a little more selective if they really mean what they say in regard to pricing. the practice that I would like to know more about is advance purchase bulk space for resell. What are the restrictions to be on advertising that kind of product? |
#22
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Are Cruise deals over?
I haven't yet formed an opinion on whether this is good or bad. But
here are some observations that I have: From what I read, agencies are still allowed to sell at reduced rates, but they will lose certain benefits if they are caught doing so. If they are repeatedly caught, they may lose the ability to sell RCCL and Celebrity entirely. Could this be the beginning of travel agencies having a wholly owned subsidary that only sells RCCL and Celebrity? When the subsidary is caught enough times, it is dissolved and reopened under another name. If that were to continually happen, I think RCCL would get the picture and undo the new rules. On another note, it appears to me that RCI has learned that there are a vast number of people that know what they want (or at least think they do) and simply want the best price. By forcing all agencies to have the same price, more and more people may begin to book directly, and result in RCI being able to lower the prices (or make more profit). In my opinion, RCI's decision to do this likely had more to do with trying to get more people to book with them directly than protecting the mom & pop agencies. Remeber a few years back when you had to go to a TA to get an airline ticket? The airlines successfully removed the TA from that process. However, I am not sure that cruiselines would be successful at trying to do the same. After all, airlines mainly compete with other airlines, and cruiselines compet with resorts, cultural vacations (visiting historic places), and other vacation alternatives. On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:30:20 -0400, "Jim" wrote: Okay, I looked into this and we even have it confirmed and it is being discussed on our website in the RCI board. Yes it is true that prices are fixed and agents cannot offer any rebate on their commission or sell the cruise for less than the advertised price. Seems like there is options available for group cruises or special pricing for special events but the agency itself is bound by the rule of all selling at the same price and it goes beyond just advertising. The cannot even offer a lesser price if you talk to them on the phone. Seems very stupid on the cruiselines part and pretty much smacks the free trade concept in the face. Here is what we are talking about on our message boards; http://www.cruisemates.com/MBindex/cruiselines.cfm Jim Community Staff Leader Cruisemates Inc. "Scotty" wrote in message hlink.net... "Guido" LAST BLAST... It was a HUGE move by the executives at Royal Caribbean and Celebrity, but they have mandated that effective 8/16/04 (Monday) they will not allow ANY of their product to be discounted and sold below the gross cruise price that is available thru the cruise line itself. They have instituted big penalties to travel agent offenders if they are caught. What does this mean for you? It means that if you are planning on sailing on Royal Caribbean or Celebrity in either 2004 or 2005, and if you typically book thru and on-line agency, membership association, wholesale house, booking engine, or any other travel agency who discounts their commission and "rebates" this in part to you, then you MUST book before midnight on 8/15/04. This is effective ACROSS THE INDUSTRY , not just for a few travel agencies!! No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. The agencies are not allowed to advertise rates below the published rates. Doesn't mean they can't give them. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back in. Scott |
#23
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Are Cruise deals over?
I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been mentioned.
One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well as the "regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest of the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way around. That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for passengers (note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion). Reduced revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and staff levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to give. As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate (we don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody). You just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are generalized and not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower pricing on this RCI cruise). Regards, Keith |
#24
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I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been mentioned.
One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well as the "regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest of the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way around. That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for passengers (note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion). Reduced revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and staff levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to give. As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate (we don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody). You just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are generalized and not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower pricing on this RCI cruise). Regards, Keith |
#25
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Are Cruise deals over?
here's a quote from Bob Dickinson on one of the reasons for the policy
change. "We're trying to get the consumer to feel comfortable that pricing isn't an issue with Carnival. Couples can sit down at a table on the Imagination and not worry that they paid more for the same category of cabin on the cruise than the couple next to them." If this is so will the price for the cruise one year out be the same as 2 months out? I doubt it. They'll have to reduce prices to fill the empty cabins. Will CCL reduce the prices to the same level for the people that booked one year out? I don't see this happening either. So if that isn't the case your tablemates who booked one year out will still have paid more than somebody booking last minute, so his reasoning doesn't work. As George said things have a way of working themselves out. Time will tell. Bill -- visit my Caribbean Princess website www.cruisingthecaribbeanprincess.com "Cruisebyweb" wrote in message ... I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been mentioned. One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well as the "regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest of the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way around. That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for passengers (note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion). Reduced revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and staff levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to give. As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate (we don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody). You just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are generalized and not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower pricing on this RCI cruise). Regards, Keith |
#26
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Are Cruise deals over?
here's a quote from Bob Dickinson on one of the reasons for the policy
change. "We're trying to get the consumer to feel comfortable that pricing isn't an issue with Carnival. Couples can sit down at a table on the Imagination and not worry that they paid more for the same category of cabin on the cruise than the couple next to them." If this is so will the price for the cruise one year out be the same as 2 months out? I doubt it. They'll have to reduce prices to fill the empty cabins. Will CCL reduce the prices to the same level for the people that booked one year out? I don't see this happening either. So if that isn't the case your tablemates who booked one year out will still have paid more than somebody booking last minute, so his reasoning doesn't work. As George said things have a way of working themselves out. Time will tell. Bill -- visit my Caribbean Princess website www.cruisingthecaribbeanprincess.com "Cruisebyweb" wrote in message ... I think there is perhaps one other angle of this that has not been mentioned. One theory going around is that this also helps the cruise lines as well as the "regular" travel agents. In other words, if the lines allowed the biggest of the big to gobble up most of the market, the few remaining mega-monster agencies would end up dictating terms to the lines, not the other way around. That would be bad for the lines, and with reduced revenue, bad for passengers (note "passengers", not "guests", but that is another discussion). Reduced revenue, if reduced too low, means reduced quality onboard - food and staff levels being obvious reductions. Ticket prices too low = something has to give. As a T/A, this is not the sky falling. And it is still legal to rebate (we don't for good reasons, but our business model may not be for everybody). You just can't advertise that. You can offer subtle hints that are generalized and not specific (i.e. call for our best pricing, versus call us to get lower pricing on this RCI cruise). Regards, Keith |
#27
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Are Cruise deals over?
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:32 GMT, "John & Beverly"
wrote: If this is true, it sounds like: 1. illegal price fixing Works all the time. Check out furniture. Trying buying Thomasville at a discount. Price fixing would be where RCI, NCL and Carnival all got together and agreed on a price for their offerings. 2. lots of lost business and empty ships. We'll see. A lot depends on how the other lines react. Carnival has already made their move, I expect NCL to be next. I doubt the cruise lines can afford either. They're printing money right now. I think they see this as a first step. To what I don't know. John "Jim" wrote in message .. . Okay, I looked into this and we even have it confirmed and it is being discussed on our website in the RCI board. Yes it is true that prices are fixed and agents cannot offer any rebate on their commission or sell the cruise for less than the advertised price. Seems like there is options available for group cruises or special pricing for special events but the agency itself is bound by the rule of all selling at the same price and it goes beyond just advertising. The cannot even offer a lesser price if you talk to them on the phone. Seems very stupid on the cruiselines part and pretty much smacks the free trade concept in the face. Here is what we are talking about on our message boards; http://www.cruisemates.com/MBindex/cruiselines.cfm Jim Community Staff Leader Cruisemates Inc. "Scotty" wrote in message link.net... "Guido" LAST BLAST... It was a HUGE move by the executives at Royal Caribbean and Celebrity, but they have mandated that effective 8/16/04 (Monday) they will not allow ANY of their product to be discounted and sold below the gross cruise price that is available thru the cruise line itself. They have instituted big penalties to travel agent offenders if they are caught. What does this mean for you? It means that if you are planning on sailing on Royal Caribbean or Celebrity in either 2004 or 2005, and if you typically book thru and on-line agency, membership association, wholesale house, booking engine, or any other travel agency who discounts their commission and "rebates" this in part to you, then you MUST book before midnight on 8/15/04. This is effective ACROSS THE INDUSTRY , not just for a few travel agencies!! No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. The agencies are not allowed to advertise rates below the published rates. Doesn't mean they can't give them. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back in. Scott -- dillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. |
#28
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On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:58:32 GMT, "John & Beverly"
wrote: If this is true, it sounds like: 1. illegal price fixing Works all the time. Check out furniture. Trying buying Thomasville at a discount. Price fixing would be where RCI, NCL and Carnival all got together and agreed on a price for their offerings. 2. lots of lost business and empty ships. We'll see. A lot depends on how the other lines react. Carnival has already made their move, I expect NCL to be next. I doubt the cruise lines can afford either. They're printing money right now. I think they see this as a first step. To what I don't know. John "Jim" wrote in message .. . Okay, I looked into this and we even have it confirmed and it is being discussed on our website in the RCI board. Yes it is true that prices are fixed and agents cannot offer any rebate on their commission or sell the cruise for less than the advertised price. Seems like there is options available for group cruises or special pricing for special events but the agency itself is bound by the rule of all selling at the same price and it goes beyond just advertising. The cannot even offer a lesser price if you talk to them on the phone. Seems very stupid on the cruiselines part and pretty much smacks the free trade concept in the face. Here is what we are talking about on our message boards; http://www.cruisemates.com/MBindex/cruiselines.cfm Jim Community Staff Leader Cruisemates Inc. "Scotty" wrote in message link.net... "Guido" LAST BLAST... It was a HUGE move by the executives at Royal Caribbean and Celebrity, but they have mandated that effective 8/16/04 (Monday) they will not allow ANY of their product to be discounted and sold below the gross cruise price that is available thru the cruise line itself. They have instituted big penalties to travel agent offenders if they are caught. What does this mean for you? It means that if you are planning on sailing on Royal Caribbean or Celebrity in either 2004 or 2005, and if you typically book thru and on-line agency, membership association, wholesale house, booking engine, or any other travel agency who discounts their commission and "rebates" this in part to you, then you MUST book before midnight on 8/15/04. This is effective ACROSS THE INDUSTRY , not just for a few travel agencies!! No Chicken Little, the sky is not falling. The agencies are not allowed to advertise rates below the published rates. Doesn't mean they can't give them. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't going back in. Scott -- dillon When I was a kid, I thought the angel's name was Hark and the horse's name was Bob. |
#29
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Maybe I am naive, but I think it sounds like a good idea. I would much rather
purchase a cruise through my local travel agent..everything else being the same. I resent that every Google ad I see shouts "Discount, Discout, Discount" when the reality is, there really isn't much of a difference in cruise prices, just cruise marketing practices. |
#30
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Maybe I am naive, but I think it sounds like a good idea. I would much rather
purchase a cruise through my local travel agent..everything else being the same. I resent that every Google ad I see shouts "Discount, Discout, Discount" when the reality is, there really isn't much of a difference in cruise prices, just cruise marketing practices. |
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