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#51
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Tipping in USA/Canada
On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:29:27 -0600, James Robinson
mangled uncounted electrons thus: Martin D. Pay wrote: (Dennis P. Harris) mangled uncounted electrons thus: it's an unfortunate fact of life that the american restaurant industry has refused to pay their employees a living wage and expects them to live off tips, to the point that it's actually the law and they will be taxed on tips that the govt expects them to receive even if they don't. That's the bit I find extraordinary! Can the worker reclaim any overpaid tax at the end of the year, if they can demonstrate a lower actual income than the amount on which they've been charged? (Even with the rapacious tax regime in the UK, this is possible.) The tax authority (IRS) estimates what the person should receive in tips based on the total sales of the restaurant, and tax returns filed by other people in similar jobs. If the amount reported by someone varies significantly from the estimates, the onus is on them to prove why they are different than the trend. In many cases, they simply take the easiest course and accept the IRS estimate. Good... grief... @_@ Martin D. Pay Nothing witty comes to mind... |
#52
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Tipping in USA/Canada
"Craig Welch" wrote:
"JohnT" said: So the customer has to pay his/her server's minimum wage in addition to paying for the food and the tax. As in every country in the world. In the US, it's just structured differently. Tipping does more to ensure that wait staff receives a just wage than would funneling it thru management. |
#53
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Tipping in USA/Canada
So the customer has to pay his/her server's minimum wage in addition
to paying for the food and the tax. Yeah. Think of it as an implicitly itemized bill. When I was in England earlier this year, I noted the the prices in restaurants in the UK were about the same as in the US, except that the prices were in pounds, so something that cost 20 dollars in the US would cost 20 pounds in the UK. Even after you leave a tip, I think you'll find that restaurant prices in the US are not out of line with prices in other developed countries. |
#54
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Tipping in USA/Canada
On Sat, 10 Nov 2007 00:44:10 GMT in rec.travel.air, "Jeff"
wrote: The OP was planning a trip to the U.S. and Canada. (And in Europe, when there is not a service charge added to the bill, it is customary to tip as well. But each European country their customs may vary). and as i said in a later post, the custom has changed over the past 25-30 years so that service is usually included on the bill. when i was in france 3 years ago, i found that about half the restaurants itemized service separately, and about half did not. in the early 80s, about half would itemize service on the bill, usually about 15% of the cost of the meal, and about half would leave it off but expect the customer to add it. when it wasn't on the bill, i would always ask if it was included. i can only speak to my experience in britain and france. i have been told that italians still tip. even if they aren't compulsory, i have always found that a little extra to the staff always ensured special treatment, except in NZ & oz, where folks would be insulted if you offered a gratuity. since my kiwi friends had warned me about this, i never made that mistake. |
#55
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Tipping in USA/Canada
On Nov 9, 10:41 pm, Robert Cohen wrote:
On Nov 8, 8:13 pm, Hatunen wrote: On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 16:35:09 -0800, Robert Cohen wrote: i suppose one u.s. dollar per customer at a non-pretentious dinner or at a now very common buffet restaurant is reasonable, or in other words, two dollars per couple, et cetera-- you can certainly eventually get sick of 'em, but ryan's and the other buffet restaurants convey unlimited and many varities of food, and i bet few places in the world are this way, ten dollars or less person, unlimited goood food at the fancier class restaurants, tip at least ten percent of the total bill, and of course many or rmost people leave 15 percent or twenty percent or more you'll feel ripped-off at yuppie places like ruby fridays, so wendy et al fast food and those amazing buffet places are best for budget traveller for clothes and chotskies go to the tangar shopping outlet places and several other factory outlet places is where the people genrally seem to be especially on weekends the u.s.a. is pndeed complex, so a guide book wouldn't hurt if one is not affluent, one goes to wendy's etal You can't kid me. You're really Archie the Cockroach, aren't you? -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - fyi and rationalization and in the vein of frommer's europe on five dollars per day: there is that declasse underside of the continent that the usual tourist guidebooks probably ignore- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - the economics of restaurant patronage and everything else in an often depressing reality a few days ago, an olive garden (owned by darden) had people waiting for a table for lunch, and that estimated 30 minutes of waiting around would be to me a sort of torture other nearby restaurants, including the somewhat more expensive darden's red lobster where we ended up. were not seemingly as crowded (one can also estimate from the number of cars in an eatery's parking lot if too lazy to go inside the bldg) buyers certainly do tend to be price conscious, and it doesn't take einstein (or the "hungrygarian" teller) to perceive a basic simple phenomenon that the "too busy" olive garden is simply perceived as "better value" or considered "relatively cheaper" and my profoundly shallow point is? banal, crass, normative economics isn't physics, plus a-hole elitists should f themselves |
#56
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Tipping in USA/Canada
"John L" wrote in message
... So the customer has to pay his/her server's minimum wage in addition to paying for the food and the tax. Yeah. Think of it as an implicitly itemized bill. When I was in England earlier this year, I noted the the prices in restaurants in the UK were about the same as in the US, except that the prices were in pounds, so something that cost 20 dollars in the US would cost 20 pounds in the UK. Even after you leave a tip, I think you'll find that restaurant prices in the US are not out of line with prices in other developed countries. I don't argue that often prices in the UK are much higher than in the USA. Prices in London are obscenely high, but tend to be more reasonable throughout much of the rest of the UK. But I do find it very strange that in a highly-developed Society such as the USA whoever serves a meal may well be paid much less than the minimum legal wage. And surely the USA (plus, perhaps, Canada) is the only territory where taxes are not included in the quoted cost. So, in New York for example, a meal nominally costing $25 would actually cost $25 + 8.25% + 15%, which is more than $31. -- JohnT |
#57
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Tipping in USA/Canada
Qanset wrote:
snip ... I try to be flexible when observing local customs, but I will not be bullied into tipping, which I have seen happen. Tipping in the US is like trying to speak French in France; do it, and people smile. After all, one reason for traveling is to interact with the locals, and it has to be more fun than just looking at the scenery while treating the people like robots. Interaction with waiters and so on isn't always just about money. Louis |
#58
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Tipping in USA/Canada
On Nov 11, 3:32 pm, "JohnT" wrote:
"John L" wrote in message ... So the customer has to pay his/her server's minimum wage in addition to paying for the food and the tax. Yeah. Think of it as an implicitly itemized bill. When I was in England earlier this year, I noted the the prices in restaurants in the UK were about the same as in the US, except that the prices were in pounds, so something that cost 20 dollars in the US would cost 20 pounds in the UK. Even after you leave a tip, I think you'll find that restaurant prices in the US are not out of line with prices in other developed countries. I don't argue that often prices in the UK are much higher than in the USA. Prices in London are obscenely high, but tend to be more reasonable throughout much of the rest of the UK. But I do find it very strange that in a highly-developed Society such as the USA whoever serves a meal may well be paid much less than the minimum legal wage. Actually I think it's a better system. Everyone should get paid in tips. Doctors, lawyers, accountants, every one. Pay people according to the quality of the service they provide rather than everyone getting the same pay regardless of their performance. And surely the USA (plus, perhaps, Canada) is the only territory where taxes are not included in the quoted cost. So, in New York for example, a meal nominally costing $25 would actually cost $25 + 8.25% + 15%, which is more than $31. Apparently you've never been out of Europe or US. In most places of the world, prices are quoted ++ which means service and taxes additional. |
#59
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Tipping in USA/Canada
On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 01:59:28 -0800, Tchiowa wrote:
Actually I think it's a better system. Everyone should get paid in tips. Doctors, lawyers, accountants, every one. Pay people according to the quality of the service they provide rather than everyone getting the same pay regardless of their performance. Yup, it's irrational the system is only applied to some service industries and not others. In fact, if it's such a good system why shouldn't it be applied to _all_ goods and services - why just the waiter and not the meal, the ambience, the facilities? In fact, tipping is a lousy system. Sure, it benefits the restaurateur as he can transfer wage costs onto the customers; it benefits the wait staff as they can hide their income from the tax authorities, and it benefits the "stiffer" as they can transfer part of their meal cost onto their fellow customer. But the honest, tipping patrons ends up making up the missing tax, and subsidising the restaurateur and other patrons, which doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Even worse than the voluntary tipping system is the compulsory tip (aka "service charge"), which is rarely, if ever, displayed prominently in the hope the customer will be stupid enough to tip twice. It's a particularly invidious scam because it's generally set at 5-10% below the normal tip level, making regular tippers feel they're not giving enough. They are, of course, because this time everyone's paying and it shows how much they subsidise the non-tipper's meal normally. DaveM |
#60
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Tipping in USA/Canada
Craig Welch wrote:
Wendy's is a fast food outlet. It does not serve quality, tasty food. Period. Of all the fast food joints out there, I've found its food to be fresher and higher quality than the others, and for similar menu items, it compares favorably to some sit-down restaurants, i.e. Chili's, TGI Friday's, Ruby Tuesday or Benngan's. What Wendy's lacks are the more ambitious menu items, ambienence and alcohol. |
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