Australia Via Asia

"Markku Grönroos" wrote in message ...
"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

I suggest you go back to using racial epithets to describe Jews and
acknowledge (as you have in the past) that you are a racist. Racism is
your stock in trade. It's no wonder you don't understand other people.

You run out true arguments. Yids are hardly any of them. At least not in
this thread.

I rest my case.

Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
Tchiowa wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:
"Runge" wrote:
...and its definitely not !!!

I've been to Singapore maybe 20 times.

It most definitely is dull and sterile and boring.

I've been a few times less than that, about 15. Always enjoyed it
tremendously. Lots of culture, friendly people, excellent food, very
relaxing, reasonable prices. Different strokes, I guess.

Let me tell you where I find disagreement.

First of all "lots of culture". The sterility of Singapore strips the
Asian culture away. If you want culture, go to any of the surrounding
countries and see it for real.

I don't think it's fair to blame the difference in opinion on a lack of
experience. I've spent months in India, Indonesia and Malaysia, weeks in
Thailand, Nepal, Vietnam and China, and shorter periods in the Maldives, Sri
Lanka and Japan (not to mention living/working in various middle eastern
countries). I think I have at least an inkling of what the "real" culture
is. Likewise the other people who have posted here in Singapore's defense
are to my knowledge road-worn travelers.

I never said nor implied that you weren't. But can you honestly say
that the culture in Singapore is anywhere near similar to true Asian
culture? Singapore is a sterile city and has had the culture beaten
out of it. It is closer in culture to LA than it is to Bangkok or
Jakarta or Manila or Hong Kong.

"Reasonable prices"?? My wife (a Thai) was shocked at the prices.

And someone from Indonesia would be shocked at the prices in Mexico.
Mexico's still cheap by the standards of most posters in this newsgroup. It
was hard for me to guess that everything had to be calibrated to the
sensibilities of arbitrary Thais whom I've never met or even heard of until
this exchange.

Point is that Singapore is expensive, EXTREMELY expensive, when
compared to the rest of the region. Indonesia isn't anywhere near
Mexico. But it is next door to Singapore as is Malaysia and Thailand
and other countries. And Singapore is far, far more expensive than any
of the other countries in the region.

Granted, they are lower than the US or Europe, but they are
astoundingly high for the area. Again, compare Jakarta or Bangkok or
other regional cities of similar size. Singapore is expensive.

Yes, it's indisputably expensive compared to other cities in the region. But
it's cheap compared to the original poster's origin and destination.

"Relaxing"? Yes. Boredom will do that to you. ;-)

Boring is not relaxing. I know the difference. Remember, I've been to the
Maldives!

OK, you can have that round. :-)

Tchiowa wrote:
But can you honestly say that the culture in Singapore is anywhere near
similar to true Asian culture?

It is true Asian culture. Just a different kind. It's run by Asians with
Asian sensibilities. It's populated by Asians. It's in Asia. It doesn't fit
the stereotype of Southeast Asia, that's all.

Singapore is a sterile city and has had the culture beaten out of it.

Its culture has evolved in response to differences in economy and
technology. Sure, they have perpetuated some crimes against humanity like
the removal of the Satay Club to its dull Clarke Quay location.

Culture is what people do and how they live. Every place has it, from
maximum security prisons to remote jungle settlements. Different culture is
not the same as no culture.

It is closer in culture to LA than it is to Bangkok or Jakarta or Manila
or Hong Kong.

I don't think LA's sterile. You want sterile, try Cincinnati.

Point is that Singapore is expensive, EXTREMELY expensive, when
compared to the rest of the region.

Don't forget Brunei!

Other than that, sure it's more expensive than the other countries nearby. I
didn't claim otherwise. I just said it was "inexpensive" (or maybe
"affordable"). Which it is, in the context of newsgroup participants who do
not live in Indonesia or Thailand.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
Tchiowa wrote:
But can you honestly say that the culture in Singapore is anywhere near
similar to true Asian culture?

It is true Asian culture. Just a different kind. It's run by Asians with
Asian sensibilities. It's populated by Asians. It's in Asia. It doesn't fit
the stereotype of Southeast Asia, that's all.

Sorry, I don't buy that. They seem to have gone out of their way to
"Americanize". As an American that makes me a bit more comfortable.
But as a traveller in Asia it leaves me cold.

Tchiowa wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:
But can you honestly say that the culture in Singapore is anywhere near
similar to true Asian culture?

It is true Asian culture. Just a different kind. It's run by Asians with
Asian sensibilities. It's populated by Asians. It's in Asia. It doesn't fit
the stereotype of Southeast Asia, that's all.

Sorry, I don't buy that. They seem to have gone out of their way to
"Americanize". As an American that makes me a bit more comfortable.
But as a traveller in Asia it leaves me cold.

I, in turn, don't buy that. But I also don't really know what you mean by
"Americanize".

I doubt there are significantly more McDonalds per cap in Singapore than
Bangkok, and if they are, it's probably easily accounted for by differences
in disposable income.

They don't use the American legal system, drive on the American side of the
road, follow American customs in obscenity and libel law, taxation,
transport, etc., etc.

About the only things they do similarly to America - within the scope of
human behavior actually observed on Earth - are to pave the roads, provide
drinkable water, uphold law and order, and build tall buildings.

If that kind of stuff overrides all the other differences then, well, we've
got very different ideas of what culture means.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Miguel Cruz wrote:


About the only things they do similarly to America - within the scope of
human behavior actually observed on Earth - are to pave the roads, provide
drinkable water, uphold law and order, and build tall buildings.

If that kind of stuff overrides all the other differences then, well, we've
got very different ideas of what culture means.


this is spot on, miguel... so many people i talk to, and being an esl
teacher i talk to many, hold exactly this view of what they call
"culture"...

it boils down to "poverty equals real/authentic non-western culture;
material wealth equals westernization/americanization"... even a half a
moment's thought would dispel this absurdity, but our kneejerk notions
of such concepts have a way of blocking thought about other cultures...

japan, being the wealthiest "non-western" nation, is the one place most
often described as "americanized" or "westernized" by dumbass
backpapckers who cannot see a real culture for their own blind
prejudices... and it is so NOT-westernized or americanized that you have
to laugh when you hear this...


michael

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...
Miguel Cruz wrote in message
...
Tchiowa wrote:
But can you honestly say that the culture in Singapore is anywhere
near
similar to true Asian culture?

It is true Asian culture. Just a different kind. It's run by Asians with
Asian sensibilities. It's populated by Asians. It's in Asia. It doesn't
fit
the stereotype of Southeast Asia, that's all.

Sorry, I don't buy that. They seem to have gone out of their way to
"Americanize". As an American that makes me a bit more comfortable.
But as a traveller in Asia it leaves me cold.

?????????

America is European and Asia is Asian. America is far away from the shores
of Singapore. It is slightly British though.

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
om...

I never said nor implied that you weren't. But can you honestly say
that the culture in Singapore is anywhere near similar to true Asian
culture? Singapore is a sterile city and has had the culture beaten
out of it. It is closer in culture to LA than it is to Bangkok or
Jakarta or Manila or Hong Kong.

Your comparisons are truly odd. I am certain that the population of vicious
germs in Singapore is at least as potent as anywhere else. You find a
sterile spot between your ears.

Miguel Cruz wrote in message ...
Tchiowa wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:
But can you honestly say that the culture in Singapore is anywhere near
similar to true Asian culture?

It is true Asian culture. Just a different kind. It's run by Asians with
Asian sensibilities. It's populated by Asians. It's in Asia. It doesn't fit
the stereotype of Southeast Asia, that's all.

Sorry, I don't buy that. They seem to have gone out of their way to
"Americanize". As an American that makes me a bit more comfortable.
But as a traveller in Asia it leaves me cold.

I, in turn, don't buy that. But I also don't really know what you mean by
"Americanize".

American clothing, American style shops, American style advertizing,
American way of walking and talking, American attitudes toward
families, American architecture, etc.

If you want to see anything Asian you have to go to Little India or
other enclaves in the city. The only difference between Orchard Road
and Main Street USA is that the sidewalks are cleaner and they drive
on the other side of the road.

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
m...
I, in turn, don't buy that. But I also don't really know what you mean
by
"Americanize".

American clothing, American style shops, American style advertizing,
American way of walking and talking, American attitudes toward
families, American architecture, etc.

If you want to see anything Asian you have to go to Little India or
other enclaves in the city. The only difference between Orchard Road
and Main Street USA is that the sidewalks are cleaner and they drive
on the other side of the road.

It visualizes so to you because you are boring and sterile.