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Driver Licensing not about highway safety



 
 
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  #111  
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:20 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
proffsl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 106
Default Driver Licensing not about highway safety

"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"proffsl" wrote:

Licensing does have nothing to do with highway safety.


Your assertion is simply deluded. A school child could
present cogent reasons as to the correlation between the
two.


Hahahahaha!!!! And, should I presume you are using "school child"
powers of reasoning in your assertion that I'm "simply deluded"?
Would it be a stretch to expect you to actually pose arguments with a
bit more content than "school children could present cogent reasons"?
I do so bore of the line of arguments that go something like: "Anybody
could prove you wrong.", without anybody actually doing so.


  #112  
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:30 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
-
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default Driver Licensing is all about highway safety

On Sep 30, 11:20 pm, proffsl wrote:
"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"proffsl" wrote:


Licensing does have nothing to do with highway safety.


Your assertion is simply deluded. A school child could
present cogent reasons as to the correlation between the
two.


Hahahahaha!!!! And, should I presume you are using "school child"
powers of reasoning in your assertion that I'm "simply deluded"?
Would it be a stretch to expect you to actually pose arguments with a
bit more content than "school children could present cogent reasons"?
I do so bore of the line of arguments that go something like: "Anybody
could prove you wrong.", without anybody actually doing so.


But we already did that, more than a year ago. That you choose to
ignore it and plunge forward regardless of having no facts or logic on
your side is your choice. At this point, we can merely marvel at your
ability to ignore reality.

At least this time you haven't yet fabricated any court cases. You
have only misused them.


  #113  
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:39 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
proffsl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 106
Default Driver Licensing not about highway safety

Alan S wrote:
"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"proffsl" wrote in message


Licensing does have nothing to do with highway safety.


Your assertion is simply deluded. A school child could present cogent
reasons as to the correlation between the two. KM


I agree. However, on an allied subject, this was a news item
here last night. Interviews with the town authorities were
positive; interviews with Insurance representatives were
not:http://www.spiegel.de/international/...505246,00.html

"German Town Scraps Road Signs to Increase Safety

You won't have to worry about getting a ticket for running a
red light in the German town of Bohmte any more -- the town
is abolishing all its road signs and traffic regulations.

Pedestrians and cyclists in Bohmte will have to rely on
their wits from now on -- the town is abolishing traffic
signs.

The idea of a town with no road signs conjures up ideas of
Italian-style traffic mayhem, with cars whizzing everywhere
and nervous pedestrians diving for cover. But for some
traffic experts, such chaos is to be embraced -- or, as the
title of a recent traffic conference in Frankfurt put it,
"unsafe is safe."

Now the town of Bohmte in the German state of Lower Saxony
is putting its money where its motor mouth is -- it's
getting rid of its road signs in a bid to cut accidents.

The work to remove the road signs will begin Wednesday in
the town of 13,500 inhabitants. Sidewalks will disappear, as
will the asphalt, replaced by cobblestones. Cycle lanes and
sidewalks will be distinguished from the road only by color.
The town is putting up half of the project's ¤2.35-million
costs itself, with the EU and other sources of funding
supplying the other half.

The idea is based on the European Union-supported "Shared
Space" (more...) concept of traffic management developed by
the Dutch traffic expert Hans Monderman. According to the
concept, road users have to negotiate their behavior with
each other, rather than have it prescribed by rules -- the
idea being that people will pay more attention to what other
road users are doing and hence cause fewer accidents."

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Sloveniahttp://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/
latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest


You surprise me Alan. I too read of these studies some months ago.
And, there are some corelations between their studies, and my claims
here, that driver licensing has nothing to do with highway safety.

Now, I still support laws that prosecute any behavior which places
others in danger. Or, even behavior which is likely to place others in
danger. Such as driving too fast through residential areas. In fact,
I support VERY STRONG prosecution of such behavior.

And, frankly, I am quite dismayed and disgusted by how the courts will
often allow people who have proven by their actions that they WILL NOT
drive safely to continue to drive. I suppose so long as the courts
collect their fines, and so long as the insurance companies get more
money, well then, everything is honkey dorie in their minds.

But, myself, if somebody has proven they WILL NOT drive safely, they
should be instructed to keep their asses off the highways entirely,
else they WILL go to JAIL. Frankly, I don't care if somebody can
AFFORD to pay the fines and extra insurance premiums in order to
retain their "permission" to ENDANGER ME and Others. I don't care if
you can afford to provide me with the best hospital care on earth, to
provide for my children, buy me a new car, and make my house payments,
I STILL DON'T WANT YOU RUNNING OVER ME. And, if you have proven that
you WILL NOT drive safely, then get your damn ass off the highways, or
GO TO JAIL. PERIOD.

But, UNTIL someone has been proven guilty of Driving Dangerously, they
will remain in my mind Innocent Until Proven Guilty by Due Process of
Law, and as such will retain ALL of their Rights, including their
Right to Drive.

And, I have demonstrated beyond any doubt with court citations that
Driving the Automobile IS A RIGHT, only it is a Right which is being
circumvented by Police Powers. And, my position remains that those
Police Powers are arbitrary and unreasonable, because my position and
evidence is that Driver Licensing does nothing for highway safety that
strictly enforced laws against Endangerment didn't already serve. Of
course, those laws against Endamgerment WOULD HAVE TO BE ENFORCED
STRICTLY.


  #114  
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:47 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
proffsl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 106
Default Driver Licensing not about highway safety

"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"Alan S" wrote:
"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"proffsl" wrote in message


Licensing does have nothing to do with highway safety.


Your assertion is simply deluded. A school child could
present cogent reasons as to the correlation between the
two.


I agree. However, on an allied subject, this was a news item
here last night. Interviews with the town authorities were
positive; interviews with Insurance representatives were
not:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...505246,00.html


"German Town Scraps Road Signs to Increase Safety


Snipped for brevity


Very interesting concept, but I predict it will increase accidents,
especially for pedestrians.


Seems as if your "school child" powers of reasoning are wrong even
before you express them. From that same article:

"The radical philosophy has already been implented in the town of
Drachten in the Netherlands, which has abolished its road signs and
traffic lights. Accidents there have declined dramatically since the
new regime was introduced."


Germany, like Italy, already has traffic injury and death tolls that are
gruesome. And in my personal observation over the years, some of
the most hare-brained schemes have come from governmental
groups' whose actions have put heavy burdens on the populace.


Yadda, yadda, yadda.


  #115  
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:49 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
proffsl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 106
Default Driver Licensing not about highway safety

"Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote:

[personal problems]


Take your personal dispute with Alan elsewhere. I don't appreciate
you bringing your personal problems with Alan here.


  #116  
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:53 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
-
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default Driver Licensing is all about highway safety

On Sep 30, 11:49 pm, proffsl wrote:
"Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote:

[personal problems]


Take your personal dispute with Alan elsewhere. I don't appreciate
you bringing your personal problems with Alan here.


Why do you presume to issue directives to others on an open internet
forum? Have you not heard of the right of free speech?

  #117  
Old October 1st, 2007, 06:59 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
-
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 138
Default Driver Licensing is all about highway safety

On Sep 30, 11:39 pm, proffsl wrote:
Alan S wrote:
"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"proffsl" wrote in message


Licensing does have nothing to do with highway safety.


Your assertion is simply deluded. A school child could present cogent
reasons as to the correlation between the two. KM


I agree. However, on an allied subject, this was a news item
here last night. Interviews with the town authorities were
positive; interviews with Insurance representatives were
not:http://www.spiegel.de/international/...505246,00.html


"German Town Scraps Road Signs to Increase Safety


You won't have to worry about getting a ticket for running a
red light in the German town of Bohmte any more -- the town
is abolishing all its road signs and traffic regulations.


Pedestrians and cyclists in Bohmte will have to rely on
their wits from now on -- the town is abolishing traffic
signs.


The idea of a town with no road signs conjures up ideas of
Italian-style traffic mayhem, with cars whizzing everywhere
and nervous pedestrians diving for cover. But for some
traffic experts, such chaos is to be embraced -- or, as the
title of a recent traffic conference in Frankfurt put it,
"unsafe is safe."


Now the town of Bohmte in the German state of Lower Saxony
is putting its money where its motor mouth is -- it's
getting rid of its road signs in a bid to cut accidents.


The work to remove the road signs will begin Wednesday in
the town of 13,500 inhabitants. Sidewalks will disappear, as
will the asphalt, replaced by cobblestones. Cycle lanes and
sidewalks will be distinguished from the road only by color.
The town is putting up half of the project's ¤2.35-million
costs itself, with the EU and other sources of funding
supplying the other half.


The idea is based on the European Union-supported "Shared
Space" (more...) concept of traffic management developed by
the Dutch traffic expert Hans Monderman. According to the
concept, road users have to negotiate their behavior with
each other, rather than have it prescribed by rules -- the
idea being that people will pay more attention to what other
road users are doing and hence cause fewer accidents."


Cheers, Alan, Australia
--http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Sloveniahttp://loraltraveloz.blogspot.com/
latest: Mossman Gorge in the Daintree Rainforest


You surprise me Alan. I too read of these studies some months ago.
And, there are some corelations between their studies, and my claims
here, that driver licensing has nothing to do with highway safety.


Not really. The correlation isn't with licensing/lack of, it is with
lack of driving regulations.

Now, I still support laws that prosecute any behavior which places
others in danger. Or, even behavior which is likely to place others in
danger.


That sounds like a slippery slope. As a civil liberties supporter, I
would object to your authoritarian proposal.

But, UNTIL someone has been proven guilty of Driving Dangerously, they
will remain in my mind Innocent Until Proven Guilty by Due Process of
Law, and as such will retain ALL of their Rights, including their
Right to Drive.


But only with a license.

And, I have demonstrated beyond any doubt...


You have failed to demonstrate at all; in fact, you haven't yet
escaped from the realm of complete doubt.

with court citations ...


Which I have proven over and over again that you have misused,
misquoted and even fabricated...

that
Driving the Automobile IS A RIGHT


.... only with a license and registration.
,
... only it is a Right which is being
circumvented by Police Powers.


Properly so, as has been overwhelmingly show to you.

And, my position remains ...


.... untenable.

that those Police Powers are arbitrary and unreasonable...


Wrong. They are anything but arbitrary and have been litigated and
found reasonable. In fact, your own cites were to court cases that
established the exact opposite of your false claims.

... because my position and
evidence is that Driver Licensing does nothing for highway safety that
strictly enforced laws against Endangerment didn't already serve.


And you have been shown to be wrong.

  #118  
Old October 1st, 2007, 07:00 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
proffsl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 106
Default Driver Licensing is all about highway safety

at 12:30 am wrote:
at 12:20 am wrote:
"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"proffsl" wrote:


Licensing does have nothing to do with highway safety.


Your assertion is simply deluded. A school child could
present cogent reasons as to the correlation between the
two.


Hahahahaha!!!! And, should I presume you are using "school child"
powers of reasoning in your assertion that I'm "simply deluded"?
Would it be a stretch to expect you to actually pose arguments with a
bit more content than "school children could present cogent reasons"?
I do so bore of the line of arguments that go something like: "Anybody
could prove you wrong.", without anybody actually doing so.


But we already did that, more than a year ago. That you choose to
ignore it and plunge forward regardless of having no facts or logic on
your side is your choice. At this point, we can merely marvel at your
ability to ignore reality.


Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Do you wait at your computer, like some kind of troll under a bridge,
for yet another opportunity to respond with your hollow claims of
victory? Only 10 minutes after I post, THERE YOU ARE. You really are
a desperate buffoon. But, as usual, a buffoon which contributes
NOTHING, NADA, ZELCH, except more of your **** slinging hysterics.


  #119  
Old October 1st, 2007, 07:01 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
proffsl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 106
Default Driver Licensing not about highway safety

at 12:30 am wrote:
at 12:20 am wrote:
"Alohacyberian" wrote:
"proffsl" wrote:


Licensing does have nothing to do with highway safety.


Your assertion is simply deluded. A school child could
present cogent reasons as to the correlation between the
two.


Hahahahaha!!!! And, should I presume you are using "school child"
powers of reasoning in your assertion that I'm "simply deluded"?
Would it be a stretch to expect you to actually pose arguments with a
bit more content than "school children could present cogent reasons"?
I do so bore of the line of arguments that go something like: "Anybody
could prove you wrong.", without anybody actually doing so.


But we already did that, more than a year ago. That you choose to
ignore it and plunge forward regardless of having no facts or logic on
your side is your choice. At this point, we can merely marvel at your
ability to ignore reality.


Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Do you wait at your computer, like some kind of troll under a bridge,
for yet another opportunity to respond with your hollow claims of
victory? Only 10 minutes after I post, THERE YOU ARE. You really are
a desperate buffoon. But, as usual, a buffoon which contributes
NOTHING, NADA, ZELCH, except more of your **** slinging hysterics.


  #120  
Old October 1st, 2007, 07:03 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
proffsl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 106
Default Driver Licensing NOT about highway safety

wrote:
proffsl wrote:
"Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote:


[personal problems]


Take your personal dispute with Alan elsewhere. I don't
appreciate you bringing your personal problems with Alan
here.


Why do you presume to issue directives to others on an open
internet forum? Have you not heard of the right of free speech?


Give your self a clensing 12 gauge enema.

 




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