life after Windows....

aracari to e-mail me wrote:
'nospam' wrote this:
wrote:

the point is that the original mac os did not have a command line.

Fine, I have no problem with that.
Nevertheless, the GUI will have been created after writing the
program function code itself (or normally would be).

there's no reason for one to be before the other. it all depends on
what the app does and how the developers wish to implement it.

The normal cycle is to design the program you want to create
and then set about writing/testing it. That is often an iterative
process which might take some time.
When you've finished and you've got the program doing exactly
what you want, you might then create a GUI for it.

Hmmm. With a great many commercial applications the UI is an integral
part of the program and is included as part of the overall design.
Grafting on a UI afterward typically results in crap.

This will include deciding what program functions you want the
user to have access to. Those which are not made available through
the GUI can often be accessed on the commandline used to start
the program.

But if you don't know what you're going to allow the user to do
then how do you know what program functions to develop?

--
Ray Fischer

nospam wrote:
Ray Fischer

Command line execution is not part of the OS. As with Unix and
Windows, command line processing is done by shells/programs.

not internal to the original mac os.

Command line processing isn't "internal" to ANY OS that I'm aware of.
Whether it's Mac's MPW, Unix's Bourne (or C or Korn or ...) shell, or
Windows command line, they're all programs that execute commands by
parsing command text and then loading and executing programs.

--
Ray Fischer

In article ,
(Ray Fischer) wrote:

nospam wrote:
aracari

There are many programs in Windows which are GUI and cannot be run
from a commandline but I don't see where that takes your argument.

the point is that the original mac os did not have a command line.

Not quite true. The Mac development environment (the name of which
eludes me at the moment) did indeed have a command line and it ran on
the original Mac OS.

MPW -- Macintosh Programmer's Workshop.

Isaac

"nospam" wrote in message
...

ugh. hidden features are obnoxious. if it's important enough to
implement, why hide it from the user?

Because the command to format the main hard drive on a PC is something you
don't want to happen by accident while:

'I was just experimenting to see what it could do'.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

In article , William Black
wrote:

ugh. hidden features are obnoxious. if it's important enough to
implement, why hide it from the user?

Because the command to format the main hard drive on a PC is something you
don't want to happen by accident while:

'I was just experimenting to see what it could do'.

which is why you display an alert requesting confirmation. and hiding
features doesn't stop people from experimenting anyway.

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , William Black
wrote:

ugh. hidden features are obnoxious. if it's important enough to
implement, why hide it from the user?

Because the command to format the main hard drive on a PC is something
you
don't want to happen by accident while:

'I was just experimenting to see what it could do'.

which is why you display an alert requesting confirmation. and hiding
features doesn't stop people from experimenting anyway.

You don't have much experience with 'users' do you.

As a general rule the confirmation is pressed as a matter of routine, "Of
course I meant it" and if they can't see something they don't play with the
machine to find stuff they can't see.

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

In article , William Black
wrote:

ugh. hidden features are obnoxious. if it's important enough to
implement, why hide it from the user?

Because the command to format the main hard drive on a PC is something
you
don't want to happen by accident while:

'I was just experimenting to see what it could do'.

which is why you display an alert requesting confirmation. and hiding
features doesn't stop people from experimenting anyway.

You don't have much experience with 'users' do you.

As a general rule the confirmation is pressed as a matter of routine, "Of
course I meant it" and if they can't see something they don't play with the
machine to find stuff they can't see.

i'm well aware of users doing insanely stupid things and there's
absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop them. even if you hide a
feature, they'll manage to find it and try it. and because it's
hidden, it must be well worth trying as well as make them a 'power
user.'

"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , William Black
wrote:

ugh. hidden features are obnoxious. if it's important enough to
implement, why hide it from the user?

Because the command to format the main hard drive on a PC is something
you
don't want to happen by accident while:

'I was just experimenting to see what it could do'.

which is why you display an alert requesting confirmation. and hiding
features doesn't stop people from experimenting anyway.

You don't have much experience with 'users' do you.

As a general rule the confirmation is pressed as a matter of routine,
"Of
course I meant it" and if they can't see something they don't play with
the
machine to find stuff they can't see.

i'm well aware of users doing insanely stupid things and there's
absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop them. even if you hide a
feature, they'll manage to find it and try it. and because it's
hidden, it must be well worth trying as well as make them a 'power
user.'

No, not much experience of users at all...

--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"aracari" wrote in message
...
'nospam' wrote this:

In article , William Black
wrote:

ugh. hidden features are obnoxious. if it's important enough to
implement, why hide it from the user?

Because the command to format the main hard drive on a PC is
something
you
don't want to happen by accident while:

'I was just experimenting to see what it could do'.

which is why you display an alert requesting confirmation. and hiding
features doesn't stop people from experimenting anyway.

You don't have much experience with 'users' do you.

As a general rule the confirmation is pressed as a matter of routine,
"Of
course I meant it" and if they can't see something they don't play with
the
machine to find stuff they can't see.

i'm well aware of users doing insanely stupid things and there's
absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop them. even if you hide a
feature, they'll manage to find it and try it. and because it's
hidden, it must be well worth trying as well as make them a 'power
user.'

No. Functions which are only accessible via commandline parms are
rarely accessed or used by dumb users, especially if documentation
is limited.

That's my experience as well.

As a general rule ordinary users only play with stuff that's 'in reach'.

But it's pretty obvious that 'nospam' doesn't meet many ordinary users.


--
William Black

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

In article , aracari
wrote:

i'm well aware of users doing insanely stupid things and there's
absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop them. even if you hide a
feature, they'll manage to find it and try it. and because it's
hidden, it must be well worth trying as well as make them a 'power
user.'

No. Functions which are only accessible via commandline parms are
rarely accessed or used by dumb users, especially if documentation
is limited.

you'd be surprised how 'dumb' they really are. they hear about some
trick on a blog somewhere and then google up a page on how to invoke it
and the next thing you know they screwed themselves over.

i've seen it *far* too often.