REAL National ID Card ACT PASSES

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/b62yk

Last-minute attempts by online activists to halt an electronic ID card
failed Tuesday when the U.S. Senate unanimously voted to impose a sweeping
set of identification requirements on Americans.

The so-called Real ID Act now heads to President Bush, who is expected to
sign the bill into law this month. Its backers, including the Bush
administration, say it's needed to stop illegal immigrants from obtaining
drivers' licenses.

If the act's mandates take effect in May 2008, as expected, Americans will
be required to obtain federally approved ID cards with "machine readable
technology" that abides by Department of Homeland Security specifications.
Anyone without such an ID card will be effectively prohibited from
traveling by air or Amtrak, opening a bank account, or entering federal
buildings.

After the Real ID Act's sponsors glued it to an Iraq military spending
bill, final passage was all but guaranteed. Yet that didn't stop a
dedicated cadre of privacy activists from trying to raise the alarm in the
last few days.

UnRealID.com, which calls the legislation a "national ID card," says that
more than 10,800 people filled out its online petition to senators.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation hastily created a "Stop The Real ID
Act!" campaign last week, and the ACLU denounced the bill as a measure that
would create "a system ripe for identity theft." Security guru Bruce
Schneier offered his own negative critique.

If the Real ID Act had been a standalone piece of legislation--instead of
being embedded in an unrelated military spending bill--its passage in the
Senate might have been less certain.

The House approved it in February by a relatively narrow vote of 261-161,
and some senators had condemned it. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., warned last
month that the Real ID Act creates "de facto national ID cards" and the
National Immigration Law Center said it will make it harder even for legal
immigrants and citizens to get drivers' licenses.

Why is the west turning into a police state? Here's why:

http://tinyurl.com/ahr2x

On 21 May 2005 12:53:22 -0700, myballot wrote:

Al queda are a bunch of cave dwellers with AK-47s, but that's a step in
front of all our expensive nat'l security, unless, of course they're
after US citizens. This "real id" thing is one of the worst, and most
invasive monitoring programs ever conceived, and it is the absolute
obligation of every clear-headed American who has any concept of basic
human rights to cripple it in any way possible. To this end, God saw to
it that everyone has access to micrwave ovens, and since it appears
*very likely* that these new ID cards will have a RFID chip within, the
first duty will be to fry that chip. The implementation would be a
non-contact transponder, having a spiral antenna within the card. These
can fail over time by repeated flexing, but our duty will be to ensure
it fails the day it's issued. (very much like some of those security
labels on big-ticket items at the store) Place such a card in the
microwave with, and this is important, a small fluorescent tube like
the sort used in battery lanterns. The tube could also be a neon lamp,
and its purpose is to indicate that the thing's putting out juice so
one can immediately hit the stop button. Otherwise, the card may get a
nasty blister where the antenna and chip are, as they would get too hot
within a second. Hit start, within a moment the magnetron filament is
up to temp, and you get a bright glow from the lamp. Hit stop (or click
the door latch). The transponder is now fried, and no further chance
anyone can scan you whilst going through public doors, turnstiles, etc.
I would recommend practicing the mic. trick a few times before doing
cards though, just to get the sequence of actions down pat.
Now, for those who worry, there's a multitude of plausible BS one can
pass off...; "must have been too close to the MRI whilst holding
mumsie's hand during her last brain scan (may she rest...)", "I'm a
welder and carry the cables over my shoulder during a burn", ad
nauseam...

Please spread this info to other forums to ensure it remains in the
public domain, and if some freedom-loving soul with knowledge of what
is where on the 3-D barcodes that are/will be used for ID's could post
it, good citizens everywhere will be greatful.

An interesting lament, ballot, and I have seen the 3D barcode and rolled my
tire over it. A scary thing it is, given all the possibilities.

In the 60's, the civil rights and antiwar movements were about civil
disobedience, breaking the laws to break open the law, so to speak.

Your scenario is nothing more than a present day version of the same.

On 21 May 2005 12:53:22 -0700, myballot wrote:

Al queda are a bunch of cave dwellers with AK-47s, but that's a step in
front of all our expensive nat'l security, unless, of course they're
after US citizens. This "real id" thing is one of the worst, and most
invasive monitoring programs ever conceived, and it is the absolute
obligation of every clear-headed American who has any concept of basic
human rights to cripple it in any way possible. To this end, God saw to
it that everyone has access to micrwave ovens, and since it appears
*very likely* that these new ID cards will have a RFID chip within, the
first duty will be to fry that chip. The implementation would be a
non-contact transponder, having a spiral antenna within the card. These
can fail over time by repeated flexing, but our duty will be to ensure
it fails the day it's issued. (very much like some of those security
labels on big-ticket items at the store) Place such a card in the
microwave with, and this is important, a small fluorescent tube like
the sort used in battery lanterns. The tube could also be a neon lamp,
and its purpose is to indicate that the thing's putting out juice so
one can immediately hit the stop button. Otherwise, the card may get a
nasty blister where the antenna and chip are, as they would get too hot
within a second. Hit start, within a moment the magnetron filament is
up to temp, and you get a bright glow from the lamp. Hit stop (or click
the door latch). The transponder is now fried, and no further chance
anyone can scan you whilst going through public doors, turnstiles, etc.
I would recommend practicing the mic. trick a few times before doing
cards though, just to get the sequence of actions down pat.
Now, for those who worry, there's a multitude of plausible BS one can
pass off...; "must have been too close to the MRI whilst holding
mumsie's hand during her last brain scan (may she rest...)", "I'm a
welder and carry the cables over my shoulder during a burn", ad
nauseam...

Please spread this info to other forums to ensure it remains in the
public domain, and if some freedom-loving soul with knowledge of what
is where on the 3-D barcodes that are/will be used for ID's could post
it, good citizens everywhere will be greatful.

An interesting lament, ballot, and I have seen the 3D barcode and rolled my
tire over it. A scary thing it is, given all the possibilities.

In the 60's, the civil rights and antiwar movements were about civil
disobedience, breaking the laws to break open the law, so to speak.

Your scenario is nothing more than a present day version of the same.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:58:48 +0100, monster wrote:

Why is the west turning into a police state? Here's why:

http://tinyurl.com/ahr2x

I had read Vonnegut's article before, monster, and there is not much that
can be said except for one more thing.

We will fight more wars, drain every possible drop of oil-blood, rape every
last acreage to keep the inevitable fossil fuel calamity from happening as
quickly as it will. Putting off is all we have left at this point.

To all who think the original poster is paranoid, read the actual bill and
the following links.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer...:@@@L&summ2=m&

http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+...3-5697111.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=REAL+National+ID+Card

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/co...5/cr020905.htm
http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/




"Chrissy Cruiser" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 May 2005 21:58:48 +0100, monster wrote:

Why is the west turning into a police state? Here's why:

http://tinyurl.com/ahr2x

I had read Vonnegut's article before, monster, and there is not much that
can be said except for one more thing.

We will fight more wars, drain every possible drop of oil-blood, rape
every
last acreage to keep the inevitable fossil fuel calamity from happening as
quickly as it will. Putting off is all we have left at this point.

Chrissy Cruiser wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/b62yk

The House approved it in February by a relatively narrow vote of 261-161,
and some senators had condemned it. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., warned last
month that the Real ID Act creates "de facto national ID cards" and the
National Immigration Law Center said it will make it harder even for legal
immigrants and citizens to get drivers' licenses.

That old Chinese saying, "be careful what you wish for,
you might just get it!"

US politicians and media like to play the xenophobia card,
treating terrorism like it's an identifiable nation-state
whose "nationals" are, in a primitive tribal/feudal way,
are on board. Rather, it's a mental illness that does
not conform to nationality ... Al Qaeda has plenty of
US citizens and permanent residents.

Sure, I support the notion of determining real ID. Everyone
should have a passport just to board an aircraft, anywhere
on the planet (even US citizens flying domestic). But even
that wouldn't have caught ...

Wahdi El-Hage, is a naturalized American from Texas who was
OBL's personal secretary. Or Zarqawi's #1, naturalized citizen
Mr. X, who was captured last November ...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/...ide/index.html

How about a Washington, DC public schools superintendent,
a naturalized US citizen, found to be a recruiter for Al-Qaeda
and responsible for bringing in Jose Padilla?

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7340464/site/newsweek/

That guy pulled down $1 Million in salary over seven years!!

One of Al Qaeda's leading military trainers, Ali Mohamed,
was a two tour US Army sergeant out of Fort Bragg, NC.
His immigration petition was supported by letters from
officers in the Delta Force including a two star general,
who worked with him in Egypt.

While traffic from British Columbia is gridlocked at Blaine,
WA, Ryan Anderson was trying to sell his National Guard
unit's Iraq orders on jihadi web sites for $150,000.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/12/nat...age/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/13/nat...est/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/02/18/esp...eda/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/01/so...ted/index.html


It's like tourist taxes on hotels and rental cars ... it's politically
cheap to beat up on non-voters.

What if Jose Padilla didn't lose his passport before returning
to his native Chicago?

What if John Walker-Lindh weren't caught in Afghanistan?

gld

"Jamerical_Gyal" wrote in
:

http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+...1028_3-5697111.
html

According to this FAQ, the main thing this law does is ensure that a person
is who they say they are before they get a driver's licence. Plus it makes
the standards for identification uniform throughout the country.

The main negative is that, since the card will be uniform across the entire
country, it will be easier for stores/the government to keep track of what
you're doing. Since stores and the government already do that I'm not sure
how this will negatively affect people (beyond what is already happening).

However, if you are required to show your card, *even for cash purchases*,
then it will really suck. I might be okay with having to show your ID card
for cash purposes over 10,000 (US) but even then you've got a slippery
slope.

Most other western countries have national IDs don't they? France, Germany,
Canada (please correct me if I'm wrong). What kind of negative affect do
those ID cards have on their citizens?

DC wrote:

Canada (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Wrong.

Germany and France have different social attitudes
for public disclosure and personal privacy than
the so-called "Anglo-Saxon" nations like the US,
UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

There is resistance in the UK towards a national ID
card ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4590817.stm

DC wrote:
According to this FAQ, the main thing this law does is ensure that a person
is who they say they are before they get a driver's licence. Plus it makes
the standards for identification uniform throughout the country.

It makes the card computer readable with far more information than you
would have to provide in a free democratic country. EVen the Soviet
Unionm didn't require so much info.

The main negative is that, since the card will be uniform across the entire
country, it will be easier for stores/the government to keep track of what
you're doing.

Not only that, but any store that reads your card will have enough
information about you to succesfully forge your identity, including
fingerprints etc etc. This means that any security system that currently
relies on biometrics to unlock a door will become worthless because your
biometric information will become public.

Since stores and the government already do that I'm not sure
how this will negatively affect people (beyond what is already happening).


However, if you are required to show your card, *even for cash purchases*,
then it will really suck.

Consider that if you try to buy an airplane ticket with cash, you are
automatically considered a terrorism suspect and given a throughough
search at airport. Your government wants to be able to track your every
purchase and every movement. At least the Soviet Union didn't have the
technology to actually do that. They had tons of paperwork to process
and it was a hugely inefficient bureaucracy that controlled movements.
In the USA, it will be computers that will track your life.

And like scared sheep, americans are frozen and don't move an inch when
their government continues to increase its orwelian regime.

Most other western countries have national IDs don't they?

Canada doesn't, although you can get one in lieu of your passport for
domestic purposes. But it doesn't contain your biometric information.
And your passport's computer readable information doesn't contain any
information that you can't read or that isn't contained in your passport
in readable fashion. So when you hand over your passport, youknow
exactly what can be read.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:16:20 -0700, "Gary L. Dare"
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

DC wrote:

Canada (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Wrong.

Germany and France have different social attitudes
for public disclosure and personal privacy than
the so-called "Anglo-Saxon" nations like the US,
UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

There is resistance in the UK towards a national ID
card ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4590817.stm

Damn right there is. Unfortunately the sheep over here voted
Blair back in, and although he has a reduced majority he can
probably force the necessary legislation through Parliament...


One thing puzzles me about the current proposals in the US.
Granted most Americans drive and therefore have a drivers
licence, but what's the position for those that don't? I know a
couple of people in New York who've lived their whole lives in
the city and have never bothered to learn to drive; what will
they be able to use as Federally-approved ID to fly domestic, use
Amtrak, obtain Social Security and so on? (Not a 'troll', folks -
I'm actually interested in this whole debate both in the US and
the UK.)

Martin D. Pay
The proposed UK ID card won't be linked to driver's licences at
all. And it will be voluntary, at least at first (unless you want
a passport, in which case you'll have to buy the ID card as well)