Kenya Safari September 2005

Hello all.

I've been having a scan of this group for a couple of days and you seem
like a helpful bunch. (Hoping flattery helps!) I'm sure this question
has been asked before and I apprectiate that it is very difficult to
answer. We are thinking about a trip to Kenya in September and have
been trying to do some research into what would be the best options and
finding it almost impossible to objectivly compare different offerings.
We seem to have rather unscientificatly decided upon the Cheetah
Safari from Kuoni with possibly extending it for a few days on the
coast. Does anyone have any suggestions or can spot any glaring
ommissions in the itinerary below.

Thanks

Stephen


Shamlesssly stolen from kuoni.co.uk:

Nairobi: 1 night
Samburu: 2 nights
Treetops: 1 night
Lake Naivasha: 1 night
Masai Mara: 2 nights
Beach: optional


Day 1 Wed or Sun
Depart Heathrow by Kenya Airways scheduled flight.



Day 2 Thu or Mon
One night at the Holiday Inn.



Day 3 Fri or Tue
Drive to Samburu with lunch en route. Afternoon game-viewing. Overnight
at Samburu Lodge (approx. 195 miles).



Day 4 Sat or Wed
Morning and afternoon game drives. Overnight Samburu.



Day 5 Sun or Thu
Drive south to the Aberdare Mountains and to world famous Treetops.
Lunch at the Outspan, then to Treetops your spectacular viewing perch
for the night, where the game is attracted by the waterholes and salt
licks around the lodge (approx. 115 miles).



Day 6 Mon or Fri
Early morning tea at Treetops and breakfast at Outspan, then drive via
Thomson's Falls, to Lake Nakuru National Park for game drive and
lunch. Continue to Lake Naivasha for overnight (approx. 150 miles).



Day 7 Tue or Sat
After breakfast, drive to the Masai Mara Game Reserve. Overnight at
Keekorok Lodge (approx. 153 miles).



Day 8 Wed or Sun
This may be the last day of your safari, but it could be the most
thrilling, for the vast Mara plains provide the best game-viewing in
Kenya. Serengeti and Mara are really one great reserve, covering over
6,000 square miles divided by the Kenya/ Tanzania border, and home to
thousands of animals. Morning and afternoon game drives into the heart
of the reserve - a fitting climax to an exciting safari. Or take the
optional Balloon Safari. Overnight at Keekorok Lodge (approx. 40
miles).



Day 9 Thu or Mon
Leave Keekorok after breakfast, arriving in Nairobi around midday
(approx. 160 miles). Kenya Airways flight to Heathrow arriving next
day. You may extend your holiday to the Kenya Coast, Zanzibar,
Seychelles or Mauritius.

In message om
"Stephen Robertson" wrote:

Hello all.

I've been having a scan of this group for a couple of days and you seem
like a helpful bunch. (Hoping flattery helps!) I'm sure this question
has been asked before and I apprectiate that it is very difficult to
answer. We are thinking about a trip to Kenya in September and have
been trying to do some research into what would be the best options and
finding it almost impossible to objectivly compare different offerings.
We seem to have rather unscientificatly decided upon the Cheetah
Safari from Kuoni with possibly extending it for a few days on the
coast. Does anyone have any suggestions or can spot any glaring
ommissions in the itinerary below.

If you want to go on a group trip out of the UK, Kuoni is about the best
'bangs for bucks' available. Nothing wrong with the Cheetah safari, but also
consider the slightly longer Leopard, which was the one we did on our first
trip.

It might surprise you that it isn't necessarily (much) more expensive to get
a private trip (though it is with Kuoni, ironically) from a specialist, then
you can pick and choose where you go and how long you stay in each place,
but a Kuoni trip is great for a first time, then you have more inside
knowledge on which to base future trips.


Safari njema

Liz


--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Thanks very much for your reply. We are trying to do things on a
reasonably tight budget, so I think the Leopard would just be that
little bit more than we were wanting to pay. But this is our dilema do
we need to pay the extra to get something like the Leopard or is it
simply , as I read it , mainly just a longer trip. I am under no
illusion that there are no guarantees what we are going to see when we
go. But what I would hate to happen is to be in a situtation where we
come back saying I wish we had seen X, and someone saying "Oh for that
you should have paid the extra for the Y safari"

In message .com
"Stephen Robertson" wrote:

Thanks very much for your reply. We are trying to do things on a
reasonably tight budget, so I think the Leopard would just be that
little bit more than we were wanting to pay. But this is our dilema do
we need to pay the extra to get something like the Leopard or is it
simply , as I read it , mainly just a longer trip. I am under no
illusion that there are no guarantees what we are going to see when we
go. But what I would hate to happen is to be in a situtation where we
come back saying I wish we had seen X, and someone saying "Oh for that
you should have paid the extra for the Y safari"

If there's anything you particularly want to see, post here and we can bat
around your best chances of seeing it and where. As you say, there are no
guarantees: in all my weeks on safari, I've never actually seen a kill
happening. Once we met an American family on a *five-day* safari who had seen a
caracal - which we've never seen and our driver had only seen once.
Hahaha - I'd love to see a Black Heron fishing: when we were at Baringo, the
ornithologist advised us to go on the early morning boat trip, as the sunset
one was really 'for the tourists'. Right enough, we saw more species, but
they saw a Black Heron and we haven't seen one yet (not very easy in Kenya
in July, except maybe at Lake Jipe).

One of the frustrations of driver/guides is that visitors watch wildlife
programmes and thereby imagine that all the 'action' they see on the progs
is concentrated into a small period of time, not realising that it can take
many months to make a one-hour programme, so they get annoyed when they
don't see it all at once. But you know there are no guarantees, so although
you may be disappointed, you won't be angry: and it gives you something to
go back for!

I see the Leopard is quite a bit more expensive, though better value (£500
to double the trip length). Generally, the longer the trip, the more chance
you have of picking different things up: a lot of time is spent driving
between Game Parks - although the Kuoni brochure is good at telling the
mileage between parks, you may not realise that it will usually take much
longer to cover that distance than it does at home.

I'd say the main place which is missing from the Cheetah trip is Amboseli:
but also see that you have an option to add a couple of nights at Ol
Tukai/Amboseli onto the Cheetah trip, which would be worth considering. On
the Leopard trip, you'd include Tsavo West, which IMO is the most 'missable'
- they put it in first because it will almost certainly be eclipsed by
places you visit later. The Outspan is interesting, but not essential:
you'll visit it briefly on your way up to Treetops, and will probably have
your breakfast there on your way down, unless things have changed (they were
expanding Treetops last time we were there) and Lake Baringo is a must if
you're birders, but otherwise also missable.

Anyway, whatever you decide, you'll have a great time.
And you'll be able to visit other places on later visits. :-)

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

In message .com
"Stephen Robertson" wrote:

Thanks very much for your reply. We are trying to do things on a
reasonably tight budget, so I think the Leopard would just be that
little bit more than we were wanting to pay. But this is our dilema do
we need to pay the extra to get something like the Leopard or is it
simply , as I read it , mainly just a longer trip. I am under no
illusion that there are no guarantees what we are going to see when we
go. But what I would hate to happen is to be in a situtation where we
come back saying I wish we had seen X, and someone saying "Oh for that
you should have paid the extra for the Y safari"

If there's anything you particularly want to see, post here and we can bat
around your best chances of seeing it and where. As you say, there are no
guarantees: in all my weeks on safari, I've never actually seen a kill
happening. Once we met an American family on a *five-day* safari who had seen a
caracal - which we've never seen and our driver had only seen once.
Hahaha - I'd love to see a Black Heron fishing: when we were at Baringo, the
ornithologist advised us to go on the early morning boat trip, as the sunset
one was really 'for the tourists'. Right enough, we saw more species, but
they saw a Black Heron and we haven't seen one yet (not very easy in Kenya
in July, except maybe at Lake Jipe).

One of the frustrations of driver/guides is that visitors watch wildlife
programmes and thereby imagine that all the 'action' they see on the progs
is concentrated into a small period of time, not realising that it can take
many months to make a one-hour programme, so they get annoyed when they
don't see it all at once. But you know there are no guarantees, so although
you may be disappointed, you won't be angry: and it gives you something to
go back for!

I see the Leopard is quite a bit more expensive, though better value (£500
to double the trip length). Generally, the longer the trip, the more chance
you have of picking different things up: a lot of time is spent driving
between Game Parks - although the Kuoni brochure is good at telling the
mileage between parks, you may not realise that it will usually take much
longer to cover that distance than it does at home.

I'd say the main place which is missing from the Cheetah trip is Amboseli:
but also see that you have an option to add a couple of nights at Ol
Tukai/Amboseli onto the Cheetah trip, which would be worth considering. On
the Leopard trip, you'd include Tsavo West, which IMO is the most 'missable'
- they put it in first because it will almost certainly be eclipsed by
places you visit later. The Outspan is interesting, but not essential:
you'll visit it briefly on your way up to Treetops, and will probably have
your breakfast there on your way down, unless things have changed (they were
expanding Treetops last time we were there) and Lake Baringo is a must if
you're birders, but otherwise also missable.

Anyway, whatever you decide, you'll have a great time.
And you'll be able to visit other places on later visits. :-)

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Hi Stephen,

My wife and I went on our first Safari in September 2001 on the very
trip you are looking at. We had an absolutely brilliant time and saw an
amazing amount of animals. As Liz has already pointed out there are
disadvantages to going with Kuoni, such as being in a minibus with other
people, the fairly long distances that you drive some days (although we
quite enjoyed the bumpy roads!), and the inflexibility of the itinery.
However, it is a great way to be introduced to Safari. It gave us the
bug and we have since done a more personalised safari in Tanzania.

Having done the personalised safari I wouldn't go back to a company like
Kuoni as we managed to see the country on a more intimate basis,
however, we do not regret going on he cheetah safari the first time
round. The advantages were, the accommodation was good quality (you will
be amazed at how good the food is!) it can be nice to have company, to
share your experiences. Also as kuoni has a large number of vehicles in
each park they can talk to one another, which helps with locating the
interesting animals. This way you are almost certain to see a lot of
animals. Also if you are lucky, this time of year is a great time to be
in the Masai Mara. The migration should be near by so there should be
plenty going on.

It's not everyones cup of tea but we went on the optional balloon trip
which was absolutely amazing. We were lucky that the migration was right
underneath us, oh and one of the balloons landed right next to a pride
of lions which was fun! If you are thinking of doing this I would
recommend it!

To sum up, if you do choose to go with Kuoni you will have a fabulous
time. Juts remember to take plenty of film for your camera!

Cheers

Dave

Stephen Robertson wrote:

Hello all.

I've been having a scan of this group for a couple of days and you seem
like a helpful bunch. (Hoping flattery helps!) I'm sure this question
has been asked before and I apprectiate that it is very difficult to
answer. We are thinking about a trip to Kenya in September and have
been trying to do some research into what would be the best options and
finding it almost impossible to objectivly compare different offerings.
We seem to have rather unscientificatly decided upon the Cheetah
Safari from Kuoni with possibly extending it for a few days on the
coast. Does anyone have any suggestions or can spot any glaring
ommissions in the itinerary below.

Thanks

Stephen

Nice to see the support for the Kuoni operations
from people who have enjoyed their trip with them.
I operate a similar itinerary - slightly different in that
clients stay at Lake Nakuru instead of Naivasha. The
drive to the Mara, thus, is about an hour longer.
And I use different properties - but the ones in
your trip are all quality places also.
Counting the drives to and from Samburu Lodge
when you are at the reserve, you will have 9 game
drives and should see a lot. September, as you
probably know, is an ideal time to be in the Masai Mara.

On 1 Mar 2005 01:28:06 -0800, "Stephen Robertson"
wrote:

Nairobi: 1 night
Samburu: 2 nights
Treetops: 1 night
Lake Naivasha: 1 night
Masai Mara: 2 nights
Beach: optional

Stephen,

just a few thoughts that may contain some useful information for
you. Please consider that it is probably impossible to design
the safari in detail on your own, you probably have to take the
schedule as it is. But at least you can understand the details
of the plan better, so I'll just write what I think.

I think this itinerary is nearly the best for a short stay like
9 days. The two main places are Samburu and Masai Mara, which
would be my choice for a first time visit as well.

Given that I think that the itinerary is quite good, let me
think how I would change and improve it if I could.

Lake Naivasha made me think, but it is pretty obvious that they
insert the overnight stay there for the simple reason that they
can't make it from Samburu or even Treetops to Masai Mara in one
day.

In fact, they probably could, but it would be a very long,
tiresome trip.

The Lake Naivasha Country Club, where you will probably spend
the night, is, in fact, quite nice, and I sometimes use it for
an intermediate stop as well, for example, when I leave Nairobi
very quickly with newly arrived friends and want them to
acclimatize in peace. For this, Lake Naivasha is ideal.

If you're there for lunch or in the early afternoon, you can
consider taking a boat ride to see several interesting birds and
even some large animals on Crescent Island and hippos and
perhaps the occasional crocodile in the water. You may also see
fishermen at work.

Treetops is one of the three mountain forest lodges where you
spend a night and watch forest animals around a salt lick and
water hole in floodlight at night. This is fascinating, but it
has the disadvantage that you spend only a little time there,
which you have to split between watching and sleeping. In the
morning you are rushed back down and leave, in all of these
lodges save The Ark even before breakfast.

So the question is whether this is a good idea on a first visit
to Kenya. If you want to stuff as many different impressions as
possible into your trip and even sacrifice a good night's sleep,
then it definitely is, because are unlikely to see any forest
animals without it. If, however, you value a slower pace and a
good night's sleep, then it may seem like too much of a rush.
Some people really like these forest lodges, some like them a
little less. At least nobody seems to regret having been there
once.

Another thought concerns Nairobi. My personal idea is to get out
of Nairobi as quickly as possible after I arrive. If you arrive
in the evening, then you will usually have to spend a night
there and can leave the next morning. If you arrive in the
morning, I would prefer leaving the same day.

Generally I think that two nights are the lower limit for major
nature reserves, and your itinerary obeys that, which is good.

I hope this information is at least a bit useful.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

On 1 Mar 2005 01:28:06 -0800, "Stephen Robertson"
wrote:

Nairobi: 1 night
Samburu: 2 nights
Treetops: 1 night
Lake Naivasha: 1 night
Masai Mara: 2 nights
Beach: optional

Stephen,

just a few thoughts that may contain some useful information for
you. Please consider that it is probably impossible to design
the safari in detail on your own, you probably have to take the
schedule as it is. But at least you can understand the details
of the plan better, so I'll just write what I think.

I think this itinerary is nearly the best for a short stay like
9 days. The two main places are Samburu and Masai Mara, which
would be my choice for a first time visit as well.

Given that I think that the itinerary is quite good, let me
think how I would change and improve it if I could.

Lake Naivasha made me think, but it is pretty obvious that they
insert the overnight stay there for the simple reason that they
can't make it from Samburu or even Treetops to Masai Mara in one
day.

In fact, they probably could, but it would be a very long,
tiresome trip.

The Lake Naivasha Country Club, where you will probably spend
the night, is, in fact, quite nice, and I sometimes use it for
an intermediate stop as well, for example, when I leave Nairobi
very quickly with newly arrived friends and want them to
acclimatize in peace. For this, Lake Naivasha is ideal.

If you're there for lunch or in the early afternoon, you can
consider taking a boat ride to see several interesting birds and
even some large animals on Crescent Island and hippos and
perhaps the occasional crocodile in the water. You may also see
fishermen at work.

Treetops is one of the three mountain forest lodges where you
spend a night and watch forest animals around a salt lick and
water hole in floodlight at night. This is fascinating, but it
has the disadvantage that you spend only a little time there,
which you have to split between watching and sleeping. In the
morning you are rushed back down and leave, in all of these
lodges save The Ark even before breakfast.

So the question is whether this is a good idea on a first visit
to Kenya. If you want to stuff as many different impressions as
possible into your trip and even sacrifice a good night's sleep,
then it definitely is, because are unlikely to see any forest
animals without it. If, however, you value a slower pace and a
good night's sleep, then it may seem like too much of a rush.
Some people really like these forest lodges, some like them a
little less. At least nobody seems to regret having been there
once.

Another thought concerns Nairobi. My personal idea is to get out
of Nairobi as quickly as possible after I arrive. If you arrive
in the evening, then you will usually have to spend a night
there and can leave the next morning. If you arrive in the
morning, I would prefer leaving the same day.

Generally I think that two nights are the lower limit for major
nature reserves, and your itinerary obeys that, which is good.

I hope this information is at least a bit useful.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I've booked it now so in a few months I'll know for myself! We're also
having a few days at the beach afterwards. I'm a little dubious about
Nairobi, we are spending two nights, one either side of the safari. By
all accounts it doesn't sound like the sort of place where you want to
leave the hotel at all or is that making it out to be worse than it is?
I'm not sure how much time we will have in Nairobi, or how much we
will want to do considering the flight times. Anyone have any
suggestions if we do have some time.

Stephen.