Christmas vs "Holidays"

John Woodgate wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Kevin Aylward
wrote (in
lueyonder.co.uk) about 'Christmas
vs "Holidays"', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

Indeed. Just as there are no documents written during the alleged
time that this alleged Jesus existed, verifying such alleged
existence. If I were a Christian, this would cause me some concern.
I'm not, so it doesn't.

Well, there are the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not quite contemporary, but
'within living memory', I believe. Certainly tell a story different
from normal doctrine, but explain some rather cryptic texts in Acts.

The information I have that is accepted even by the church is that it
was some 70 years later before the first written account of Jesus was
made. This essentially means that there is *no* actual evidence that
Jesus existed. Hearsay accounts for nothing in law, for very good
reason.

Since Jesus was supposed to be so famous in his day, its incredible that
no dated written record exists, where as there are other records of that
time that do exist. This was a man who is claimed to be feeding 1000's
and doing miracles, like water into wine. Surely someone would have
recorded it at the time.

My suspicion is that Jesus was probably another Robin Hood figure. i.e.
many dudes all rolled into one, if he even existed at all.

Kevin Aylward

http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

John Woodgate wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Kevin Aylward
wrote (in
lueyonder.co.uk) about 'Christmas
vs "Holidays"', on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

Indeed. Just as there are no documents written during the alleged
time that this alleged Jesus existed, verifying such alleged
existence. If I were a Christian, this would cause me some concern.
I'm not, so it doesn't.

Well, there are the Dead Sea Scrolls. Not quite contemporary, but
'within living memory', I believe. Certainly tell a story different
from normal doctrine, but explain some rather cryptic texts in Acts.

The information I have that is accepted even by the church is that it
was some 70 years later before the first written account of Jesus was
made. This essentially means that there is *no* actual evidence that
Jesus existed. Hearsay accounts for nothing in law, for very good
reason.

Since Jesus was supposed to be so famous in his day, its incredible that
no dated written record exists, where as there are other records of that
time that do exist. This was a man who is claimed to be feeding 1000's
and doing miracles, like water into wine. Surely someone would have
recorded it at the time.

My suspicion is that Jesus was probably another Robin Hood figure. i.e.
many dudes all rolled into one, if he even existed at all.

Kevin Aylward

http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"CLV3" wrote in message
news:O_6wd.1083$JA4.803@trndny09...
The code word "holiday" season is coming into
increasing use in an effort to minimize the influence the Truths that
were
taught by the Prince of Peace.



I myself was raised catholic yet I do not get offended when people refer
to
it as holliday or xmas or whatever. Who cares? Even us Christians have
historically stolen others traditions and shaped it into our own thing. Do
you think the Christmas tree is a Christian idea? Hardly. We have all
stolen
ideas, traditions, and beliefs. The important thing is the end result is
the
kind of effect that it all has on us as a human race.

Just so you know, "Xmas" is not a secular attempt to take Christ out of
Christmas as many contend. X is the Greek symbol denoting Jesus.

"CLV3" wrote in message
news:O_6wd.1083$JA4.803@trndny09...
The code word "holiday" season is coming into
increasing use in an effort to minimize the influence the Truths that
were
taught by the Prince of Peace.



I myself was raised catholic yet I do not get offended when people refer
to
it as holliday or xmas or whatever. Who cares? Even us Christians have
historically stolen others traditions and shaped it into our own thing. Do
you think the Christmas tree is a Christian idea? Hardly. We have all
stolen
ideas, traditions, and beliefs. The important thing is the end result is
the
kind of effect that it all has on us as a human race.

Just so you know, "Xmas" is not a secular attempt to take Christ out of
Christmas as many contend. X is the Greek symbol denoting Jesus.

"CLV3" wrote in message
news:Q47wd.14891$sr2.641@trndny02...

Get serious. Christians adopted the winter solstice as their own. If you
are
a Christian I'm sure you are aware that Christ was born in the spring of
the
year not in winter. Things like greenery in buidings, decking halls and
decorating trees predate Christianity but have been adopted by them.
Palm
trees would be more appropriate as true Christmas trees as a symbol of
the
holy land. Snow and all that goes with it is not Christian either.
Northern
tales of elves, reindeer and jolly men in red suits, likewise arn't
Christian. People always adopt local traditions, holidays and pagents as
their own. Get over it and enjoy the holidays for what they are.
Remember
there are two s'es in Chri$tma$ and they are both dollar signs! Now go
buy
some gifts.
Bob



Ummm last I knew (and saying this as a Christian but from a purely honest,
realistic and factual standpoint) there are NO documents stating when
Christ
was supposedly born. Could be any time.....

Actually, there are... The Bible itself gives several clues. We know,
for example, that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. We also know
that Herod died in 4AD. Descriptions of the constellations also put his
birth between 6 AD, and 4 AD. The Bible states that sheperds were tending
their flocks in the fields, this is a spring event, April, or May usually.
By this, we know that he was most probably born in April - May, between 6 AD
and 4 AD.


So it just happens to be
December 25th that we celebrate Christmas but his real birthday could even
have been in June.

This isn't without reason. Constantine wished to choose the Winter
Solstice in order to co-opt the popular Saturnelia holiday in an effort to
draw more people to Christianity in Rome and the rest of Europe.

"CLV3" wrote in message
news:Q47wd.14891$sr2.641@trndny02...

Get serious. Christians adopted the winter solstice as their own. If you
are
a Christian I'm sure you are aware that Christ was born in the spring of
the
year not in winter. Things like greenery in buidings, decking halls and
decorating trees predate Christianity but have been adopted by them.
Palm
trees would be more appropriate as true Christmas trees as a symbol of
the
holy land. Snow and all that goes with it is not Christian either.
Northern
tales of elves, reindeer and jolly men in red suits, likewise arn't
Christian. People always adopt local traditions, holidays and pagents as
their own. Get over it and enjoy the holidays for what they are.
Remember
there are two s'es in Chri$tma$ and they are both dollar signs! Now go
buy
some gifts.
Bob



Ummm last I knew (and saying this as a Christian but from a purely honest,
realistic and factual standpoint) there are NO documents stating when
Christ
was supposedly born. Could be any time.....

Actually, there are... The Bible itself gives several clues. We know,
for example, that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. We also know
that Herod died in 4AD. Descriptions of the constellations also put his
birth between 6 AD, and 4 AD. The Bible states that sheperds were tending
their flocks in the fields, this is a spring event, April, or May usually.
By this, we know that he was most probably born in April - May, between 6 AD
and 4 AD.


So it just happens to be
December 25th that we celebrate Christmas but his real birthday could even
have been in June.

This isn't without reason. Constantine wished to choose the Winter
Solstice in order to co-opt the popular Saturnelia holiday in an effort to
draw more people to Christianity in Rome and the rest of Europe.

"James A. Doemer" wrote in message
. net...

Actually, there are... The Bible itself gives several clues. We know,
for example, that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod. We also know
that Herod died in 4AD. Descriptions of the constellations also put his
birth between 6 AD, and 4 AD. The Bible states that sheperds were
tending
their flocks in the fields, this is a spring event, April, or May usually.
By this, we know that he was most probably born in April - May, between 6
AD
and 4 AD.
This would be kinda hard since AD from what I understand is "after death".
A.W.


So it just happens to be
December 25th that we celebrate Christmas but his real birthday could
even
have been in June.

This isn't without reason. Constantine wished to choose the Winter
Solstice in order to co-opt the popular Saturnelia holiday in an effort to
draw more people to Christianity in Rome and the rest of Europe.

A.W. wrote:
This would be kinda hard since AD from what I understand is "after death".
A.W.


A.D. stands for "anno Domini" --- "year of the Lord" -----It means a year
during the Christian era, after Christ was born.

Donna in Texas

wrote:
"James A. Doemer" wrote in message
. net...

Actually, there are... The Bible itself gives several clues. We
know, for example, that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod.
We also know that Herod died in 4AD. Descriptions of the
constellations also put his birth between 6 AD, and 4 AD. The
Bible states that sheperds were tending
their flocks in the fields, this is a spring event, April, or May
usually. By this, we know that he was most probably born in April -
May, between 6 AD
and 4 AD.
This would be kinda hard since AD from what I understand is "after
death". A.W.


I'm sorry... Duh! It's early and I haven't had my cup-o-coffee yet...
:c) Change all the AD's to BC's



So it just happens to be
December 25th that we celebrate Christmas but his real birthday
could even
have been in June.

This isn't without reason. Constantine wished to choose the Winter
Solstice in order to co-opt the popular Saturnelia holiday in an
effort to draw more people to Christianity in Rome and the rest of
Europe.

wrote:
"James A. Doemer" wrote in message
. net...

Actually, there are... The Bible itself gives several clues. We
know, for example, that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod.
We also know that Herod died in 4AD. Descriptions of the
constellations also put his birth between 6 AD, and 4 AD. The
Bible states that sheperds were tending
their flocks in the fields, this is a spring event, April, or May
usually. By this, we know that he was most probably born in April -
May, between 6 AD
and 4 AD.
This would be kinda hard since AD from what I understand is "after
death". A.W.


I'm sorry... Duh! It's early and I haven't had my cup-o-coffee yet...
:c) Change all the AD's to BC's



So it just happens to be
December 25th that we celebrate Christmas but his real birthday
could even
have been in June.

This isn't without reason. Constantine wished to choose the Winter
Solstice in order to co-opt the popular Saturnelia holiday in an
effort to draw more people to Christianity in Rome and the rest of
Europe.