17 mile drive by motorbike

Chris Hornberger wrote:
On 7/12/05 6:33 AM, in article ,
"Fletis Humplebacker" ! wrote:


Hatunen wrote:

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 18:02:06 -0700, Fletis Humplebacker !
wrote:



Hatunen wrote:


On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:32:42 -0700, "Fletis Humplebacker" !




I'm not trying to sweep anything away, but there's not a whole
lot I can do about it save whine, and unlike you, I see little
reason to do so.

I see little reason to expect an astute thought from you. How's
that for a whine?


Rather good, actually. But I would have expected no less.


You snipped your idiotic commments out too, I would
have expected no less.



Glad to see that Bill Walker and I aren't the only ones to argue thusly.
Gives me hope that the fine art of insult-laden debate is alive and well.


It's a little hard to avoid when the guy you're talking to snips
out anything relevent and misrepresents you in an attempt
to make himself look better.

Icono Clast wrote:
Kalifornia Kritter wrote:

The Portola expedition couldn't even *find* Monterey Bay, even
though it had been described by Viscaino about 150 years before.
The expedition continued north and discovered San Francisco Bay.

Don Gaspar de Anza is credited with that.

http://www.books-about-california.co...a_Chap_01.html

The Spaniards thought that their supply ship might have landed
there, but it was actually probably the Russians. Anyway, it was
too far to walk around the bay, and the Spaniards had no idea of
whether they would be snowed in as they crossed the Santa Lucias
and the Coast and Parallel mountain ranges, so they headed back to
San Diego.

Say, what?

http://www.books-about-california.co...a_Chap_01.html

Fletis Humplebacker wrote:



It's a little hard to avoid when the guy you're talking to snips
out anything relevent and misrepresents you in an attempt
to make himself look better.

Affectionately known as "The Bill Walker Technique". Yep, know it well

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 03:45:19 -0700, Icono Clast
wrote:

Kalifornia Kritter wrote:

The Portola expedition couldn't even *find* Monterey Bay, even
though it had been described by Viscaino about 150 years before.
The expedition continued north and discovered San Francisco Bay.

Don Gaspar de Anza is credited with that.

No, Portola. After he couldn't find Monterey Bay, which in truth
is more of a large embayment than a particulrly noticiable bay.

As http://www.noehill.com/sanmateo/cal0394.asp points out, and as
us former Pacific residents have drummed into us, Portola's
party got out of their boats and climbed Sweeney Ridge on the
Peninsula, obtaining a view of the Bay that the locals now pay a
million bucks to have for their houses.

Then Portola camped at a site probably now under I-280:
http://www.noehill.com/sanmateo/cal0027.asp .


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

"Rudy" wrote in message
news:2TJAe.231410$El.93579@pd7tw1no...

First of all: We heard that motorcycles are not allowed. Is it true?

Yes

But you can ride a bicycle for free.

Marianne

Hatunen wrote:
Icono Clast wrote:
Kalifornia Kritter wrote:

The Portola expedition . . . discovered San Francisco Bay.

Anza is credited with that.

No, Portola.

As I always say I always say, "The pedantic MUST be correct". Damn!

When y'gits t'be my age, Dave . . .

.. . . uh, waidaminit. I can't say that to you. Re-damn!
__________________________________________________ _________________
One of (as of 2003) 751,682 residents of San Francisco.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ - http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 --- IClast at SFbay Net

I think they pretty much ignored them. Fort Ross was a high walled fort.
Since they were going after the otters and furseals, they did nt nee much
trade with the locals.

"Kalifornia Kritter" wrote in message
oups.com...
Bill McKee wrote:

The Russians were here also. And they were North of the Spanish.

Any history of how the Russians treated Indians? The only thing I've
seen that mentioned Russians was the movie "Island of the Blue
Dolphins". It's the true story of an Indian woman who lived on one of
the Channel Islands alone for 18 years. She didn't last 2 months after
she was "rescued" by the Spanish and brought to live at Mission Santa
Barbara...

The Portuguese explorer Cabrillo first set foot on California soil
around Point Mugu in 1542. He claimed California for the king of Spain.
Under a feudal system, the Spanish king owned all lands and territories
and loaned the lands to noblemen who were his loyal followers. If the
nobleman committed any kind of treason against the king, his lands and
head were forfeit...

Even though the Spanish merchantment returning from looting the
Phillipines
sailed down the coast of California for 225 years, the Spaniards saw no
reason to settle and develop Alta California until 1767, when it became
apparent that the Russians and British might colonize it first...

The Portola expedition couldn't even *find* Monterey Bay, even though
it had been described by Viscaino about 150 years before. The
expedition continued north and discovered San Francisco Bay. Local
Indians told them that some white men in a ship had landed on the far
side of the bay. The Spaniards thought that their supply ship might
have landed there, but it was actually probably the Russians. Anyway,
it was too far to walk around the bay, and the Spaniards had no idea of
whether they would be snowed in as they crossed the Santa Lucias and
the Coast and Parallel mountain ranges, so they headed back to San
Diego.

I disremember whether it was the Salinan Indians or another tribe that
lived around Monterey Bay. They had no problems with their neighbors,
they didn't have to migrate to follow the buffalo, they were sedentery.
They didn't ptactice agriculture, though they knew about it. The men
hunted and fished, the women gathered vegetable materials in season.
Their society was feudal, only the sons of chiefs could become chief in
turn. As far as private property went, one Indian family might have the
right to harvest acorns from a certain oak tree. That was it...

The California Indians generally welcomed the Spaniards when they
arrived in 1769, but it didn't take the Indians long, only about five
years, to realize how different and greedy and materialistic the
Spaniards were...

The members of the Portola expedition received large land grants. The
Spaniards didn't survey land in a rectangular grid pattern. They
claimed the best land they coveted for their own and described the
claim as being between this river and that mountain. When they cut down
trees or moved rocks around to prove that they were in control of the
land they occupied, the Indians thought they were just crazy, no Indian
would alter the landscape just to prove he lived there.

The brutal mission system supposedly would turn a wild Indian into a
useful peasant farmer in only ten years. The mission graveyards were
filled with thousands of Indians who died from European diseases,
overwork and beatings.
The Chumash tribe along the Santa Barbara coast numbered 15,000 when
Father Serra built his missions there. A century later, the Chumash
survivors numbered about 50...

Over here, in the Sierra Nevada foothills, there were about another
15,000 Yokuts. By 1835, most of them were dead from European diseases,
even though the
Spaniards never built the chain of missions dreamt of by Father Garces
who visited the Bakersfield area in 1774. Indians who escaped the
coastal missions brought European diseases and infected the San Joaquin
valley tribes...

Total number of Indians killed by Spaniards and Americans from 1767 to
1900 was probably 100,000...

Father Garces never lived to see his first mission begin. His walking
expedition took him to the Hopi villages in Arizona. The Hopis wouldn't
have anything to do with Garces. They'd experienced Spanish cruelty for
two centuries and they knew what the Spaniards were all about. The
Hopis even killed other Hopis that converted to Catholicism. Father
Garces was assigned to a small mission on the Colorado river when local
Indians rose up and killed all the Spaniards. Garces was beaten to
death with clubs...

Anyway, that's how the Spanish land grant holders got the Indians'
land, and I've described how the rich Yankees stole the land from the
Spaniards and Mexicans by legal trickery. It's nothing for the Yankees
to be proud of, and almost nobody seems to know the story of the great
state of California's genocidal birth...