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#81
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
Our first cruise on HOMELINES we paid $400.00 per person for a seven day
cruise in 1978.and it was top quality,and white glove service,something we do not see now,and that cabi was not the lowest catagory |
#82
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
E.k.R. wrote:
I'm sure there are several that I left out. whispering Commodore Cruise Lines. I am not sure I miss Commodore but I do miss Royal Olympic. I enjoyed reading that message, Ernie. Becca -----enjoyed the Stella Solaris... Sleazy3 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy3.htm MOAGC http://www.motherofallgroupcruises.com/ Miracle in May http://www.cruisemaster.com/miracle.htm |
#83
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
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#84
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message nk.net... Have you taken a look at the Hebridean Princess, Ben? Aside from being not being modestly priced, she seems like a ship/style you might enjoy, if you like B&B's. Have Hebridean Island Cruises send you a brochure. Their brochure is really wonderful. There's also the Hebridean Spirit. I'll take a look at them. Thanks for info. Ben S. Hebridean has the nicest brochures I have ever laid eyes on. In fact I have been keeping them for years as they are just too beautiful to throw away. Get ready for a little sticker shock Ben, Hebridean makes Silversea and Seabourn look cheap! Remember all prices are in Pounds. Ouch! Even if they were in US dollars they would be VERY expensive. Ernie |
#85
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
E.k.R. wrote:
"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message But I'm not looking for inexpensive. I'm looking for something that's affordable for middle income clientele that's an alternative to the mainstream cruise lines and perhaps priced somewhat higher. Smaller, more focused, different entertainment options, no Park West art auctions, different types of merchandise in the shops, different types of activities, CDs without the canned material that they repeat cruise after cruise, etc. Ben S. I think of all the smaller, unique cruise lines that have either been swallowed up or couldn't compete with the big guys and it's sad. It really shows just how homogenized the industry has become. Just in the last 15 years we used to have: Premier Cruises, Regency Cruises, Home Lines, Sitmar Cruises, Dolphin Cruise Line, Majesty Cruise Line, Eastern Cruise Line, Western Cruise Line, Admiral Cruise Line, Cape Canaveral Cruises, Royal Viking Line, Royal Cruise Line, Sun Line, Epirotiki, Royal Olympic, Festival Cruises, American Hawaii Cruises, United States Line, etc., etc. I'm sure there are several that I left out. Now we have one company that controls something like 60% of the cruise industry, and two smaller players that basically make up the difference. Sure there are multiple brands under each parent company, but regardless it seems the brands lose much of their individuality once they become part of the corporate family. Even the hardware suffers, which is a major reason I take cruises to begin with. Let's face it, the cruise experience doesn't differ significantly from line to line in the same price bracket (although die hard loyalists would like to believe otherwise), so it's the hardware that I get excited about. Currently there are no ships on the horizon that even tweak my interest. They are all clones and hybrids of something already out there. QM2 was the last new ship that I had any real desire to sail on. Why, because she is unique. If Carnival builds five more like her then her appeal will fade, at least for me. That's exactly how I feel. None of the new ships from the mainstream interest me whatsoever and the building boom has lost its momentum as the new ships don't really offer anything significant. As you say, they are just some version of something that exists in some form or another. A few more features, balconies, alternative restaurants. Yawn. The QM2 has to remain unique for me to stay interested in her. One more, just one more of her and she loses her unique appeal. Carnival Corp. alone has a single ship platform now being used for FIVE of their brands. A Spirit/Vista Class hybrid is being used for Carnival, Costa, Holland America, P&O Cruises, and Cunard. Why should I pay Cunard prices when I can cruise the same type ship under P&O or HAL? RCI/Celebrity did a little better job differentiating between the Radiance Class and M-Class, although both classes share many similarities. These days even the "International" staff is interchangeable between brands. We have Princess Cruises staff working on the QM2, and Carnival staff working on Costa ships. What really makes the experience different? Not a whole lot. Someone on another board brought up an analogy of Carnival Corp. and General Motors. Basically General Motors produced the same car for several of it's brands, with only slight modifications and the signage on the car being different. Why buy a Buick or Oldsmobile when you can basically have the same car under the cheaper Chevrolet brand? The same could be said with Carnival's brands, or at least they seem to be heading in that direction. GM learned that strategy doesn't work, at least not for the long term. While production was cheap, consumers are smarter than many corporate executives would like to believe and they caught on. GM sales went down the toilette and now they have a much different strategy. Hopefully Carnival and other brands will not have to hit rock bottom in order for cruise executives to realize that consumers want different products to choose from, and not just a smoke screen, but real and true differences that define a product. Yep, agree with all of this. Carnival is driven by market share. I think they'll probably have to hit rock bottom. They don't think consumers need different products to choose from, they think the sheer amount of ships hold a higher appeal than different products. It works now. We'll see how far down the road it'll continue to work. To be honest, I'm rooting for Carnival to crash. I think it'll be good for consumers and the industry. The mighty will fall, and then perhaps some form of smaller lines can again operate in the market. Ernie ps - I'm not holding my breath for Delta Queen considering who is President of the line. Let's hope that "Fuzzy Wuzzy's Den" doesn't start appearing on the DELTA QUEEN! Nothing will surprise me, I just hope I get to sail aboard them before this happens. Ben S. |
#86
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
*bicker* wrote:
A Mon, 12 Jul 2004 15:40:44 -0400, "E.k.R." escribió: QM2 was the last new ship that I had any real desire to sail on. Why, because she is unique. If Carnival builds five more like her then her appeal will fade, at least for me. Yeah. This is the bit that doesn't work out the same for me. The fact that (many) others can enjoy something doesn't really take anything about from the experience for me. The point is this one ship stands out amoung the many. If one more is built she becomes a series ship, and loses her unique appeal. Ben S. -- bicker® http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/D...ry_040602.html |
#87
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
"Becca" wrote in message ... E.k.R. wrote: I'm sure there are several that I left out. whispering Commodore Cruise Lines. I am not sure I miss Commodore but I do miss Royal Olympic. I enjoyed reading that message, Ernie. Becca -----enjoyed the Stella Solaris... Hi Becca, Yes, I missed that one! I knew there would be some I forgot. It seems even though there are far more ships today, we had a lot more choices 15-20 years ago. Every ship was different, had a unique personality, and so were the cruise lines. They were much more Nationalistic, with the crews truly being all from one country, whether it be Italian, or Greek, Dutch, or whatever. I really miss that. Sailing on Home Lines or Sitmar was like taking a trip to Italy. Same with many other lines and the country the crew represented. Besides most moderately priced ship choices today being mega-clones, the other major differences seem to be the crew, which today is mostly International on all ships, and the onboard product. The quality is no longer there and in exchange is the ever annoying quest to boast onboard revenue. Remember when cruises were actually known for their amazing food? Not so today. It's mediocre at best and presented with little to no flair. Again, this is a trade-off for cruising becoming affordable to the masses. It's great almost everyone can afford a cruise these days, but those of us that have cruised for years have seen dramatic changes. The ships are large and offer all the bells and whistles, but gone is the family-like camaraderie that once existed between cruise passengers. It was like you were part of a special club. Now it's more like a large resort hotel where you never see the same person twice and passengers are walking about with cell phones and walkie talkies. I still love cruises, but it's fun to reminisce about how things used to be. Ernie |
#88
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
"Lunyma" wrote in message ... It was expensive, and not at all what we had hoped for. I would say EXACTLY the same thing about Emeril's, in Orlando... What a disappointment... NO .... say it ain't so. --Tom |
#89
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
"RTCReferee" wrote in message ... "E.k.R." wrote: Ernie, do you have any interest in Clipper Odyssey, especially doing some of her more exotic itineraries? Clipper and Cruise West haven't been swallowed up yet, have they? I have looked at Clipper. I don't have much interest in Cruise West. The ships are too small and more like coastal ships. Very limited amenities and not true ocean going vessels. The CLIPPER ODYSSEY looks lovely, although again she is quite small. Certainly something to consider in the future. Ernie |
#90
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Just returned from cruise - don't get it...
*bicker* wrote:
A 12 Jul 2004 12:17:14 -0700, (Benjamin Smith) escribió: *bicker* wrote in message ... A Mon, 12 Jul 2004 01:01:23 GMT, Benjamin Smith escribió: Mass market you'll say, my problem is more they are corporate, but in a sense it is the same thing. Expand and standardize. I think this is fine for some of them, but not all of them. I'm quite frankly tired of being told that if I want a "different" cruise experience I have to go to expensive lines. That should not be the case and it *does not* have to be the case. Folks often begrudge the premium they have to pay for something exclusive, yet that is the nature of economies of scale. I can understand your frustration at that fact, though. I'm not. What I'm saying is that some products may cost more to offer to a smaller clientele, but they don't have to be in the "luxury" category to have enough of a clientele to sustain a profitable business. I didn't say anything about "luxury" so it seems to me that you're talking about something other than what you replied to. I used bed and breakfasts and small shops in small towns as an example. Low barrier-to-entry. Try that with a $100 million bed-and-breakfast. And I'd love if some of the premium lines would start charging premium prices again. The number of people who *say* that they would pay a premium for a premium product doesn't have any impact on the profitability of the business. Only the number of people who actually *do* pay the premium for a premium product can. You may be one of those who actually *would* but clearly there aren't enough of such folks, as evidenced by these premium lines moving closer and closer over time to the mainstream lines. The shipbuilding boom dropped the price of admission, and after the economy became soft (the dotcom collapse, the impact of 9/11, and the accounting scandals) prices went down. Then, people became accustomed to low prices and have an idea of what they think cruises should cost. A lot of this is due to the overbuilding of new ships and making them bigger and bigger. What you had throughout the years and in many establishments isn't an emphasis on new as truly what is being pushed now. It is more on consistency and familiarity with enough variation and unpredictability to keep the product interesting and vibrant. With hospitality industries familiar service from familiar servers, interesting and unpredictable activities, upgrades to certain areas that need shoring up. Identify who wants consistency--the size of the market and make enough product for these people. Give people who are willing to pay the money for the product the high quality they expect with consistency and they'll come back. Skimp and go toward a lower common denominator and you'll be profitable, but you'll also have a different type of product. What we need is not more expensive lines, but new lines that aren't corporate owned. That's a red-herring, IMHO. If I owned a cruise line -- invested my own money -- I'd want to make the best decisions I could to foster my long-term financial security, even if that means crafting a cruise line that isn't to my own personal specifications. I can always use the extra money I make to buy the specific aspects I want, over-and-on-top of what is offered to the mass market. The we I'm talking about are consumers. Granted. It's a bit like saying, "What we television viewers need is not more pay channels, but new free channels that don't have commercials." It is unquestionably true (given the way you used "need" above), but isn't very enlightening as a statement. Smaller companies that focus on the product. Not huge corporations that focus on market share and growth and doing whatever it takes to maximize both. Your business decisions are sound but you would not have the type of consumer-based focus and vision that I would be interested in as a client. You're mistaken. A business that provides products and services that its customers aren't willing to pay for isn't focusing on its customers. (I used to work for Ma Bell, back when it was Ma Bell, so I can tell you great stories about all the great stuff we just *knew* you wanted, even though you didn't express any appreciable interest it beforehand.) Customer-based focus is actively listening to your customers and crafting from that information the most profitable product and service offerings, to best satisfy your fiduciary responsibilities. Depends on who you listen to. If you are interested in constantly expanding you'll listen to those that want to transform your style of business. You'll be numbers driven. If you have a solid customer base saying don't change the product and will except slow but steady growth and people willing the pay the price, you can listen to what may be a minority that want a particular product. You are driven to providing something for them. When you say "most profitable" I think that's where the corporate mentality is driven. There's most profitable and there's profitable or at least sustainable, and those that have a vision of a product and do research and have a viable client base can run profitable businesses without an overwhelming need to expand to trends. In other words, they desire to have niche products that satisfy their clients (whatever size they may be). A lot of customer comments are based on perceptions of what companies have to offer, so there's a directive from the corporation. Corporations influence people's ideas as people are mostly sheep and the corporations take advantage of this. Ben S. -- bicker® http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/D...ry_040602.html |
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