LHR T5 fiasco - who is to blame for this?

I've heard the news reports and stuff about luggage and cancelled
flights since it's opening last week etc.

What the media never seems to explain is *who* is to blame for it.

Is it BAA or BA or both?

eg: who is actually responsible for the luggage handling system?

On 1 Apr, 22:27, z0ned0ut wrote:
I've heard the news reports and stuff about luggage and cancelled
flights since it's opening last week etc.

What the media never seems to explain is *who* is to blame for it.

Is it BAA or BA or both?

eg: who is actually responsible for the luggage handling system?

Both, but apparently most failures were on the BA side. Remember that
T5 was meant to solve the terrible reputation BA had for losing bags
at LHR. So BA knew their performance would be under the spotlight.
As the fiasco unfolded BA were apparently busy having a celebration
party at HQ down the road from T5. Then they released a typically
sleazy corporate statement which dramatically underestimated the
meltdown that was in progress.

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT) '
wrote this on rec.travel.air:

On 1 Apr, 22:27, z0ned0ut wrote:
I've heard the news reports and stuff about luggage and cancelled
flights since it's opening last week etc.

What the media never seems to explain is *who* is to blame for it.

Is it BAA or BA or both?

eg: who is actually responsible for the luggage handling system?

Both, but apparently most failures were on the BA side. Remember that
T5 was meant to solve the terrible reputation BA had for losing bags
at LHR. So BA knew their performance would be under the spotlight.
As the fiasco unfolded BA were apparently busy having a celebration
party at HQ down the road from T5. Then they released a typically
sleazy corporate statement which dramatically underestimated the
meltdown that was in progress.

Thanks...today I see that BA have sent thousands of baggage items
to Milan to be sorted out before returning them to customers. What
a glorious mess.

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Both, but apparently most failures were on the BA side

No most failures were down to IT and engineering problems with the system and
that is BAA, it is their terminal and their infrastructure.

No that dividing blame is going to solve the problems.
--
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

.today I see that BA have sent thousands of baggage items to
Milan to be sorted out before returning them to customers.
What a glorious mess.
Yeah, the Italians will really fix it for you. They'll probably
have two changes in government before getting around to England's
lost luggage...

No, they'll first screen the bags to identify the fake designer
ones and have the owners extradited to Italy to stand trial for
buying them.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === http://www.campin.me.uk ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

Lansbury wrote:

No most failures were down to IT and engineering problems with the system and
that is BAA, it is their terminal and their infrastructure.


I read a comment on some other system that was interesting. When you
move into a new appartment, it is your responsability to ensure that the
toilet flushes and sinks work BEFORE you move in.

From what I have heard on the media, there was a lack of proper training
of all employees. They did some dry runs within only a small proportion
of employees being involved.

One story I also read was that despite a flight being delayed, the
luggage system stopped routing luggage to that plane beyond the original
departure time. So luggage didn't make it to the aircraft even though
the aircraft was waiting for it.

This means that someone forgot to go into the computer and tell the
"system" that the plane was still available to load luggage for
destination X. (somehow, I doubt that system designers would have
forgotten to add such a function).

Yeah, glitches are to be expected in a new terminal. But not systematic
failures of the scale that are happening at T5.

When Airbus built its first FBW plane, it experienced a lot of teething
problems. But afterwards, both Airbus and Boeing put a lot more
attention to software quality in tehir FBW planes and their introduction
into commercial service had a lot less teething problems.

Similarly, while there are cases of airports such as Denver having a lot
of difficulties, one would expect that new airports after Denver would
have learned from Denver's experience and made damned sure they were
ready to take on passengers before moving operations there.

"Lansbury" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Both, but apparently most failures were on the BA side

No most failures were down to IT and engineering problems with the system
and
that is BAA, it is their terminal and their infrastructure.

No that dividing blame is going to solve the problems.
--


My immediate reaction last week was that it was primarily the fault of BAA,
but then the Irishman accepted all the blame for BA. Prior to and concurrent
with that BA were attempting to avoid their liability under EU Law. I am
still not sure who is the main culprit but it seems to me that neither BA
nor BAA could organise a booze-up in a brewery. I have travelled by train
(first class, of course) NCL to London twice in the past week as BA are
still cancelling the majority of Domestic flights and will, of course be
seeking recompense for their inabilty to transport me.
--

JohnT

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:52:21 -0700 'Lansbury'
wrote this on rec.travel.air:

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Both, but apparently most failures were on the BA side

No most failures were down to IT and engineering problems with the system and
that is BAA, it is their terminal and their infrastructure.

That is the issue I was after. Is it the case that BAA own and
operate the baggage handling system? If so, why are BA taking
the wrap in public for the chaos?


No that dividing blame is going to solve the problems.
--
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup

On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT) wrote:

:On 1 Apr, 22:27, z0ned0ut wrote:
: I've heard the news reports and stuff about luggage and cancelled
: flights since it's opening last week etc.

: What the media never seems to explain is *who* is to blame for it.

: Is it BAA or BA or both?

: eg: who is actually responsible for the luggage handling system?

:Both, but apparently most failures were on the BA side. Remember that
:T5 was meant to solve the terrible reputation BA had for losing bags
:at LHR. So BA knew their performance would be under the spotlight.
:As the fiasco unfolded BA were apparently busy having a celebration
:party at HQ down the road from T5. Then they released a typically
:sleazy corporate statement which dramatically underestimated the
:meltdown that was in progress.

With all the fiascos, are BA and LHR really - significantly - worse than they
were before?

--
Binyamin Dissen
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 00:16:18 +0100, z0ned0ut wrote:

Is it the case that BAA own and
operate the baggage handling system?

Yes they "own" all the baggage handling systems at the airport. T5 had been
planned and building had started before it was decided which airline(s) would
use it. It wasn't just BA who wanted to.

If so, why are BA taking
the wrap in public for the chaos?

My guess it will do no good to start slinging mud in public most of who don't
know the difference between BA and BAA. They give their bags to BA who operate
the system owned by BAA and their bags don't arrive the other end. Do they
care whose fault it is. It is a public relations nightmare for both Heathrow
and BA and public mud slinging isn't going to improve that situation. Best to
get on putting it right and privately sort out the blame afterwards.

--
Lansbury
www.uk-air.net
FAQs for the alt.travel.uk.air newsgroup